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UberTuba
23
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Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Brittania
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 19:34
I Have an Idea. An Idea that has probably been thought up hundreds of times before, and probably has been done a couple of times to.
An idea that won't work in original db because it is restricted to
one camera. The idea is thus:

A STREOSCOPIC FPS

It would work like this:
A scale for the world is set, using say one DB 3d world unit to reprsent one metre. Then two cameras are set 6cm(0.06 Du) apart.
The cameras then rerder to two separate bitmaps. The bitmaps are then greyscaled. Then the first bitmap is tinted red, and the second is tinted green. Then the bitmaps are pasted to the screen.
The bitmaps are pasted 6cm apart.
(To work out how many pixels this is
the user inputs the width of the screen. (say 28cm). then the number of pixels on the X dimension (say 800) is divided by 28cm. This number is the multiplied by 6.)
Then all you would have to do is make a pear of glasses with
the left lens tinted red andd the right tinted green.
apart from that, the game behaves like a normal FPS (or other genre)
I think thios would be a greaty way to show of DB's versatility.

Ill post a tech demo when i get back to good old blighty.
Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Danmatsuma
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Location: Australia
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 20:57
Another thing like this would be to shift one camera to two differrent places (left eye and right eye views) and use the whole screen, get some sega shutter goggles and sync them using an infra red detector diode taped to the screen, under which you have a white dot appear every left eye image. This blanks the right eye in the shutter goggles. Then flash the right eye image up and the dot under the diode is black. This blanks the left shutter. You get to use the whole screen area this way minus a little dot in one corner. You could use a dll to drive the printer port instead to control the goggles...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
OzBot
23
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Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: Sweden
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 21:28
What I am interested in is getting a VR headset and writing games that use a VR, I have always loved the idea of virtual reality but it never seems to haven taken off properly.
UberTuba
23
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Location: Brittania
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 21:37
I agree VR is better, but red/green goggles is cheaper, and you can make them at home.

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
randi
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Location: United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 22:11
I have tried that, with 3D glasses, before in photoshop with pictures.
It's hard to get it to work.
The red can not be seen when looking through the red and the blue can not be seen when looking through the blue.
I was never able to do this perfectly.
Also, with this method eveything comes out black and white, so to speak.

With the VR you can do color.
Their used to be a VR card and headset that would work with DB on the DB webpage.
Don't know if it is still there.
If I remember correctly, it wasn't that expensive.

Randi
The Darthster
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 02:23
I've already attempted this using sprites, and the set sprite diffuse command, but it didn't work at all. I did actually manage some pseudo-3D in QBasic once, there was a rotating cube with no perspective, and all the vertices had a seperate offset for the two line colours, so two cubes were drawn, one properly in red and one dynamically offset in blue to produce the 3D effect. That worked really well.

I'd love to do VR programming.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
Cras
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 02:59
does that even work? if you watch a 3d film without glasses its not the whole thing that is doubled, just the things that poke out and they get further apart as they poke out further. if you wanna do this download a 3d film and watch it without glasses to see how it all works. hope you get this cos if it works id use it in some of my games, well just one which id make especially for it.
Dr DooMer
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 03:30 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2003 03:31
There's a better way to do this, I think: I'm not sure if DB supports it (I'd expect it would), but you can get some DirectX wrappers that achieve this effect in any 3D game. Most of these wrappers are only available as drivers for 3D glasses (like the pair I'm getting soon!), but I think that there was one company that released a 'trial wrapper' that did this 3D effect, which is called something like anaglyhic, to help advertise their own 3D glasses.

I could be wrong about all this, it's just something I read on a review page, but poke around the net and you might be able to come up with the wrapper.

"I am a living, thinking entity who was created in the sea of information."
UberTuba
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 13:59
The point with the red green glasses is that YOU CAN MAKE THEM YOURSELF.
Therfore anyone can play one u have downloaded.

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Shadow
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 14:08
"The red can not be seen when looking through the red and the blue can not be seen when looking through the blue."

That's the point. That way, each eye sees a different view, allowing for the illusion of depth.

Also, I can't get SET SPRITE DIFFUSE to do anything! The sprite always ends up looking the same as before. And this is on my brand-new computer too!
rapscaLLion
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Location: Canada
Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 15:39
well... you could make the glasses yourself but you have to have the right color celophane... A little off and your screwed

If you just offset the two images and tinted them, everything would look the same distance apart. The farther apart things are, the farther you have to offset them. So it will look... not 3D anyway. The only viable solution really is the LCD glasses, the ones that switch left and right eye. They work fine, but not as easy to get or use as the red/green glasses.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
UberTuba
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Location: Brittania
Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 15:57
the two images are from two different camera's, each with different views. I know how stereoscopic vision works. Your brain compairs
the two imges. If the image in one eye is identical to the other,
the brain thinks that whatever ur looking at is an infinite distance away. If the two images are different then the brain will think whatever ur looking at is closer. The more different the images are
the closer they look.
Quote: "Ill post a tech demo when i get back to good old blighty."


Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
The Darthster
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 18:28
Heres the code for the example I gave above, hastily recoded from memory of the QB version. It'd probably look better if it had any perspective at all, but still:



Only the red cube is actually offset, but you get the idea. It's most noticeable with the side bars, the further away they are from the user, the further apart the red and blue lines are.

I made a snippet to move and scale objects to give the illusion that they were twice as far away as they actually were, I wonder if I could modify that to produce this kind of effect...

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
IanM
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 20:16
By a total coincidence, I've just had a package from Serif that includes some red/blue glasses for some unknown reason...

Your code produced quite a good effect, and all was well until I took the glasses off ... Now I appear to have gone slightly blind in one eye
The Darthster
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 20:59
Hmm...

I've written another one, this time using actual 3D objects in wireframe that looks ace, but I'll put it into FPS form before I release it. Due to the nature of 3D perspective, the objects only ever appear all in front of the screen or all behind the screen. I might try and alter it so you get a mixture of both.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
Dr DooMer
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 06:28 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2003 06:29
Quote: "The point with the red green glasses is that YOU CAN MAKE THEM YOURSELF."


Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I meant that the wrapper I heard about created the red/green (which is called anaglyph) 3D effect on 'any' game. Here's what I dug up:

It was called "eyeSCREAM Light" and has now been discontinued. There used to be a free demo, but I can't find it on the web anywhere - I'm going to have a nose around on Kazaa and see what comes up. Unfortunately, it's an OpenGL wrapper, not DirectX; that means no DarbBasic; boo-hoo!

[Edit] Apparently, Scitech's GLDirect can also do anaglyph 3D; I'll look into it, I think.

"I am a living, thinking entity who was created in the sea of information."
WarWolf
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 18:38
Hm. I wrote exacly that long ago, with DBC... The problem was changing the alpha, which is now possible with the DBPro sprite commands.

I didn't steal it!
The Darthster
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Posted: 25th Apr 2003 01:34
Ok, improved it a lot more. The code uses the basic structure of my Quake 3 20-liner, that means movement and a level with collision, but all the cubes are wireframe and red and blue. Also you get a gun, which fires off an ace looking spirally rail gun effect, also in full red 'n' blue 3D. The main problem at the moment is that wireframe cubes don't occlude anything, so you can see walls which are behind other walls. I'm working on some kind of room based hiding system to avoid this.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
IanM
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Posted: 25th Apr 2003 01:50
I can't wait ... to go blind again

I'm looking forward to seeing what you've done.
Bluedeep
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Posted: 25th Apr 2003 10:37
I think that this stereoscopic think can be done with one camera too.
If we have one cube maybe rotating front of the camera.
First we position camera 0,0,0 and color cube to red, then we position camera 6,0,0 and color cube to blue.
I haven“t tested it yet, but i think this will work.
mamaji4
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Posted: 25th Apr 2003 13:56 Edited at: 25th Apr 2003 14:23
Actually I have given a tech demo of True stereo in my game Heartache, for the Retro compo.
There is one major problem with doing this in DB. The FPS gets halved because of the lack of double buffering. Its quite impossible to get a decent FPS with a large number of onscreen objects. There are cards which support stereo by splitting up the object rendering pipeline into the left eye view and the right eye view. There are also third party DirectX APIs that do this in software, but they cost a bomb.
I am hoping that Lee will provide for some sort of anaglyph support in future releases of DB.
As a stop gap, I have used another technique for monocular depth perception which I call Pseudo Stereo in my game Heartache. Do try it out and let me know if any of you like the concept. I'd like to take this monocular stereo concept further (as compared to the traditional binocular left/right eye stereo method) and would welcome any discussions or suggestions on it.
And here's a site that gives you stereo glasses for FREE. All you have to do is to enclose an SASE.

http://www.rainbowsymphony.com/freestuff.html

The Darthster
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Posted: 25th Apr 2003 18:03
The way I do it uses only one camera, but twice the objects in the level, all wireframe, all red and blue. The problem I'm having is that I can't find a way to occlude objects behind wireframed objects, at the moment you can see the whole level through the walls . Does anyone have a workaround for this? Hiding whole objects won't work, because you will probably need to have half objects behind walls and stuff, and it just won't work.

I'll post the code anyway, please tell me what you think:



Yes, I seem to go slightly blind in the red filter eye... Note for my game the red filter goes over the left eye, and the blue filter over the right eye. Otherwise the 3D effect doesn't work.

I'll take a look at that Heartache game when I get round to downloading it.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
The Darthster
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Posted: 26th Apr 2003 18:38
I tried using solid objects with wireframe textures, but that didn't work either, the blue and red cubes kept occluding each other so you couldn't see anything in 3D.

Tell me what you think of my code, it only runs in DBPro because of the long lines

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
mamaji4
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Posted: 26th Apr 2003 20:33 Edited at: 26th Apr 2003 20:36
If you check out my code in Heartache for the True stereo mode you'll see the workaround I've used to the occlusion problem. I had this same problem when I started out. Hope it helps.
I don't have DBPro so I couldn't check out your code. I've entered 3 straight compos trying to get a free copy of DBP. And the possibility of any of my entries winning in future looks pretty bleak. I think I'll just have to go and buy it.

IanM
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Posted: 26th Apr 2003 23:00
TD, could you have two cameras set to draw to an image each? Then you may be able to display them using sprites with a 50% alpha setting.

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