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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Changes that would make DBPro even better

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Richard Barnes
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 21:38 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2003 23:36
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I was reading the post about bugs, and started keying in things that were bothering me about DBPro and realized that they were not bugs as much as change requests. So I moved my thoughts over here. This will be reposted at DBDN.
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I would most like to see object oriented code. I am finding it difficult to switch back to linear code. For instance having Events, Properties, And Procedures, with class reiteration. I picked up DarkBasicPro for it was a fast way to write test programs for clients. The problem is if all my foundation work is linear it makes it more difficult to take the process of the code and convert it to C++.

I would also like to see some custom GUI functions as native functions of the system. For example CreateWindow(PosX,PosY,Width,Height,Sizable) or CreateButton(PosX,PosY,Width,Height,Caption,EventHandler) this would simplify the creation of Gui's in general. (I know there have been a lot of attempts, privately and I applaud this, but it is not enough)

Option Explicit, would be nice so we have the choice of forcing variable declaration or not.

For the Editor, when I declare a type and then reference that type a context menu should drop down with the available type options. Saving me to have to look through my documentation for the 15th time.

The DarkBasicPro Manual is also in need of a LOT of work. It should be made in Microsoft Help Studio, hell it would be simplicity itself to convert the existing html into that format. This would allow true context sensitive help. This could also be leveraged in DBPro itself to give a help system to the programmers for writing there own help files. On top of that a professional manual writer should be hired, not written by programmers. In my 20 years in the industry I have not met a programmer who can write a good manual that does not read like a Chilton’s guide to auto-repair.

Lastly while I don’t think that dark basic pro should NOT be open source (Frankly I have been in this business to long to think Open Source works for programming languages) but the extensibility model should be extend to allow easier integration of further functionality. (By the way I applauded the new interface for DBpro it looks great! It was made available to the DBDN users, for those of you who have not seen it, get a DBDN membership, its well worth your money)

These are things in most modern programming languages, why are we taking a step backward, for simplicity sake? I would suggest that once you have learned OOP and event driven programming, that it is easier to use than linear code. I know I am having trouble shifting gears back.


Richard
Owner E-Engine Software©, part of the Cold Mountain Group© of companies
Game Programmer for 20 years.

"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."
(I'll either find a way or make one.)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 22:53
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several Native UI/Windows DLL's are in development, and as soon as i've a 100% reliable UI model working i can start work on Ciya again which should solve the OOP request and infact ALOT of other things that we all want.

obviously will be pseudo code and not compiled in a native form so probably be slower - but atleast it'll be a step forward
as for the manual ... would help to be a CHM, however as search function is built into the IDE which is coded in Delphi might be a little harder to get the access to the specific areas of the Microsoft Help File without the use of MFC for the highlighted functions. However i'd prefer a more MSDN style HTML manual myself.

not sure about the open source thing

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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HZence
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 00:04
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All good ideas.

Another I would like to see, perhaps in the next patch, is enabling same-line commenting. In most languages you can type a line with commands and variables, etc., and on that same line place a comment afterwords. i.e.:

Print "You can't comment on the same line in DB!" ` This is a comment

That wouldn't work in DBP, but in VB, QB, BB, LTPB, etc. it would. So it's just something that i'd personally like.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 00:10
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In DBC you can do...

Print "You can comment on the same line in DB!" :` This is a comment

Can you not do that in dbpro?

Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!

Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
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Dazzy
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 00:14
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Quote: "Print "You can't comment on the same line in DB!" ` This is a comment
"


You sure?

try

Print "whatever!" /*this_is_a_comment*/

that works for me. _'s are there because the parser doesn't seem to like spaces!!

Dazzy
Athlon 2600, 1gb pc2700 ram, 160gb HD, 128mb GeF FX, DVD RW, Audigy 2.
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the_winch
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 00:45 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2003 00:57
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I would like an option explicit as well or at least for the ide to highlight previously declared variables.

The help would be improved with example code for each command.

The comments on the same line problem will hopfully be fixed with an ide update if they know about the problem.
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HZence
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 02:31
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Nope. Same line comments don't work. Coincidentally neither do any of the built in sprite collision commands.

Maybe my PC is just a bit fweaky.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 03:26
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Would it not be better to write

PRINT "This is a comment" : REM This is the actual comment

That works in DBPro, not sure about DBC though.

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 06:28
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Well I haven't bought DBpro yet because of two main reasons:

I'm having so much fun with db 1.113/enhanced

I don't want to buy software that's not out of beta testing, and something tells me that this is what I'd be doing if I bought DBpro at this point.

However on topic, I'll suffer those things if DBpro gets .3ds import and object instancing, I mean with objects retaining texture/limb/animation data.

something like this too:

position vertex [object],[limb],[vertex_number],x#,y#,z#

and to go with that, these expressions:

vertex position x([object],[limb],[vertex_number])
vertex position y([object],[limb],[vertex_number])
vertex position z([object],[limb],[vertex_number])

same thing for faces too

One other thing that's kind of annoying is the way an individual matrix point can't be moved except in the y dimension. nor can it's edges be turned. It would be nice to be able to have vertical matrices
also...

Correct me by all means if one or more of these things are already implemented as native commands in DBpro

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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ICERGB
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 08:43
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Quote: "Richard
Owner E-Engine Software©, part of the Cold Mountain Group© of companies
Game Programmer for 20 years."


Please stick to C++

C++ if for people who make a living programing...

Why are you trying to corrupt dark basic pro?

Just so you can see what it will look like before you convert it all over to c++??

Alot of people appreciate this type of programming for what it is.
I also know engineers that linear programming is also a good approach.

Any changes to object oriented programming or Microsoft jumbalaya visual basic... Would require a complete overhaul, or why can't we just call it C++?

I do agree with alot of the other things you are saying...

Somebody comes in and has a high expertise in C++ and goes about trying to change the fundamental code on all of us.
Why- Do you "guys" keep on doing this?!
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Prime_8
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 11:19
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* off topic *

ICERGB ,,, love your avitar .. (from old flim , no?)

Old coder, returning to DB (DBP)
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Gee
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 12:21
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Richard,

I would be interested in the results you get from the DBDN posting. Unethical as this request seems, could you let us know what the feeling in the other camp is?

Thanks
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DRYAD
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 17:18
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just make db pro to read from data bases.
with this i believe db pro will kick some serius #$%#$

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Richard Barnes
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 18:44
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ICERGB:
I understand your concern with having DBPro converted to another “C++”, DBPro has its roots in basic (Incidentally that’s where I started my career and one of the main reasons I am interested in DBPro) and I don’t want to see another "C" clone language, or do I wish to see DBPro “Corrupted”. But in rebuttal the concepts of object-oriented programming are not specific to C++ they are a guideline for making code more portable and easier to use. I don’t want to see DBPro converted into "C" I want DBPro to be easier to use and more functional within its existing guidelines. As far as being a professional programmer, don’t you think it's interesting that somebody who CAN write in C++, VB, Java, Fortran, Cobol, etc.... is interested in working with DBPro, I am only interested in making it better for everybody.

Besides these are just suggestions, I have confidence in the team to choose what is appropriate to their vision, and to listen without prejudice to forward thinking.

Richard

p.s. My mistake was putting my company affiliation after my information, I suspect that you would have not be so bothered if it was not the “C++ man” that was commenting.

"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."
(I'll either find a way or make one.)
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Richard Barnes
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 18:50
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Gee

I wouldn’t suggest that it is "unethical" to give out information from DBDN. Although I do suggest that the value of the membership is more than the cost, the extra demos, and code are worth it, let alone the forum that the developers directly answer questions in.

To answer your question their has been some decent feedback from a couple of different users, including one that is working on a more "c" like code structure for DBPro. Another chimed in with concern over the manual.

If anything new comes up that is worth mentioning I will drop a line.

Richard

"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."
(I'll either find a way or make one.)
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Don Pedro
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Posted: 24th Apr 2003 01:36
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For Richard:

I know this is a bit out of the context but it's good to see that there are other "seniors" in these forums - over 20 years of programming (c, c++, basic, vb, cobol). Few years as a pro and many years as a hobbyist. Now mainly to keep myself updated what is happening in the market.

Rgds,

Petri

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