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3 Dimensional Chat / The ultimate BSP thread

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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 18:44
I'd be more interested in knowing if the BSP COLLISION HIT and BSP COLLISION X/Y/Z functions work with such maps. At the mo, I've only got them to partly work with maps created using the BSP/PVS compiler that comes with DBPro. Let us know how you get on mate

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Redmotion
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 21:22
P.S. It's a lot less convoluted than the HLBSP process described here...

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Redmotion
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Posted: 25th Jun 2003 01:38


There y'go! Not much I know, but it's a start.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 25th Jun 2003 11:26
Jasonio, Looks rather smart

I'm banking on CShop-3 being released soon, I've been playing around with Intersect Object, which although needs a bit of work, should prove much more effective with collision detection etc. I'm not just after standard sliding collision, the effect I'm attempting to implement is to provide angled bouncing etc. To do that, I use simultanious intersect object parallel lines to determine the surface normal of the collided surface.

Anyway, nuff of my banter, nice image

APEX!

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Yskonyn
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 13:37
Well APex, you haven't answered my emails in a long time now, so I'll try here No offence though, relax! x-d
I've not been able to do much with DBPro lately due to my time eating flying lessons. But is there any progress in BSP world?

Yskonyn -
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APEXnow
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2003 18:11 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2003 18:12
Yskonyn, Sorry for any delay in email responses mate, last month now, I've upgraded my machine but have not yet been able to connect to the net due to lack of slowdem. I will be obtaining one in a week or so. Work has also tied me up as well .

As for the BSP issue, basically my situation still stands with regards to the points on collision and phantom walls etc. I've been trying to get the idea of using .X maps to work using the INTERSECT OBJECT command though. Again, with less time to myself, it's really dragging on a bit.

Until DBS resolve the problems with BSP collision in the new upgrades, I've put everything on hold.

How are you doing though mate?

Paul.

EDIT: Don't ask how I posted here though, using someone else's machine lol.

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Yskonyn
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Posted: 4th Jul 2003 12:58
Yeah, I just got a reply from the Aviation Authority here in Holland that I can continue my training (don't ask why there were problems, that's a long story, but nothing big though) and do not have a holding time of 5 weeks. So that's great news!

As far as DBP everything is bad news...
I haven't got much time lately to be involved in anything concerning DBP projects. I only write some ideas down sometimes, but they usually get lost the next day... hehe.
I really want to get into modelling first, nothing fancy, just simple modelling to get my project going, before I want to plunge into the coding part again.

Yskonyn -
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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th Jul 2003 19:43
I hope everything goes well for you buddy, don't let the b****rds grind you down eh .

Problem with my work side of things is that you work your ass off for 8 or 9 hours a day and it just frazzle's yer brain! I hate it at the moment but hell, I need the dosh. Booking some holiday soon so I can catch up on all the events etc, and spend some time with DB and other things.

Anyway, be a while for email connection etc so keep in touch mate, I'm always browsing the forum, I may setup a hotmail account or something just as a temporary standin, I'll let you know of any changes etc.

Laterz

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Yskonyn
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Posted: 5th Jul 2003 14:04
Check.

Yskonyn -
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APEXnow
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 06:24 Edited at: 7th Jul 2003 06:24
Oops, EDITED, disregard this post

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Redmotion
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Posted: 9th Jul 2003 01:34
Apex mate, it might be worth checking out the .X sliding collision post. It works very well. It uses INTERSECT OBJECT with .X file maps.

http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=10315&b=6

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Yskonyn
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Posted: 12th Jul 2003 15:20
Keep us informed Jasonio!

Yskonyn -
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UberTuba
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Posted: 12th Jul 2003 18:11
jasonio how did u pack those files to work in DB?

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You never survive it.
Ishamael Sedai
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 21:02
ok fellas...Busta rhymes [censuré], here we go..hahah...what U want my [censuré ] here we go...* a little shiny glimmer of madness in his popped rollin' eyes*
So, i found somethin' maybe it can help
In valve...worldcraft if you like...export to .dfx...and then with deep exploration* U can download the demo...or...* u can convert it to .3ds i think... not tried yet...and then convert to .X with PVS...
If somebody can try..........would be nice
BABY HOLLLAA*yeah i know i need a sleep*

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Ishamael Sedai
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 21:06
can't do much thing with c shop....looks simple...maybe too simple...kind of shadock..me

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Yuri
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 15:54 Edited at: 16th Jul 2003 15:55
one little thing.. are the zoner's tools royal free?? can i sell games with map created with hammer/zoner?

thx

CBMZone main administrator
http://www.cbmzone.com
Energizer
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 21:55
Hi.

I have a problem converting .X to .bsp , the DBpro compiler can only compile scenes with solid objects but i have a model with edited objects and loose polygons.

please help me to find a compiler that can convert my .X model to .bsp

thanks.

Yskonyn
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 21:41
-The Zoner Tools are compile tools for use in Halflife, I think the rights and license agreement is also pointed at halflife, but I really don't know how things are for commercial projects which are not related to halflife...

-Converting from .X to .BSP might be done using 3D Explore, but I am not sure.

Yskonyn -
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Complex
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 02:21
Well I know BSP in DBPro was meant to be buggy currently but I can't get any of my maps working at all, be it using the DB Compiler or Quark or Hammer.

Could someone please tell me how they made a map which they used in DBPro, for even working BSPs I have found don't seem to be understood by any BSP editors I can find.

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 13:10
BSP files generated using Hammer or Quark should work - Display correctly in DarkBASIC Professional without any problems, I'm not sure why you're having problems with loading BSP files but if you could be more specific on the problem you're having, I might be able to help.

Alot of people seem to miss using the SET CAMERA BSP command which is essential for displaying any BSP file in DB. Also, any texture.WAD files used by the BSP must be placed into the same directory as your BSP file when loading them into your project.

If you're positioning your camera with the BSP level, make sure that you have not enabled camera collision otherwise your camera may not move to the correct position.

APEX!

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Complex
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 18:27
Well considering all the buggy collision reports I've heard coming froming users of QuArK, I tried to use the DB Compiler.

I made an inverted cube .x object with texture (All in same directory) and compiled it into the same directory as a BSP. No pk3 files or WADs came with it, and I'm guessing thats where I'm going wrong, because when I load my BSP into a DBPro Program, it recognizes that the BSP exists, but nothing is shown.

It's a similar case with QuArK, I make the BSP and load it into DBPro and it's as if the BSP is there, but not being shown.

I always used the SET CAMERA BSP command to camera 1, so I don't think thats the problem, I think it's assigning a WAD to a BSP.

I've downloaded Wally, but I've no idea how to put my texture (.bmp) into a WAD and then assign that WAD with the BSP.

Any help is much appreciated, but I understand it's quite a painful topic. Any example code or methods would be excellent.

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 19:15
First thing I've noticed, you need to provide 0 into SET CAMERA BSP as zero is the default camera number. Only use 1 or above if you've actually created the camera using the MAKE CAMERA command with a camera index value of 1. By default, DarkBASIC Professional starts off on camera 0

Wally is a bit difficult to get used to but you can create WAD files with it. When you select the NEW option from the file menu, select the HalfLife WAD format. You can either import images into the WAD file or create images using Wally. It's best to view the help file that comes with it. It shouldn't be to difficult to create a simple WAD to start with.

The WAD file created with Wally must then be selected as part of the textures option in Hammer. I'm not familiar with QuArK but there must be a similar option for importing WAD texture files when constructing BSP files.

Let me know about the SET CAMERA BSP 0 thing though

APEX

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Complex
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 22:58
Ahh... Too much Binary ... Always getting the ones and zeros confused ... LOL

I've yet to try those methods out Apex but thanks anyway

Cheers

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Complex
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Posted: 25th Jul 2003 13:30
Well sadly it isn't the SET CAMERA BSP which is causing the problem...

I created my own WAD with Wally and loaded it into Hammer, and made a map with it and it runs perfectly in Half-Life (Providing I put a player start entity in). It's just a matter of loading the working BSP into DBPro.

I've copied the BSP and the Accompanying WAD into the project directory but with no success. Again, it loads the BSP and seems to detect it but it doesn't display it.

I'm guessing that there must be some way in Hammer to assign the WAD to the BSP differently (like using a relative reference or something) or some file I need to copy.

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 26th Jul 2003 00:38
One other point. When you built your BSP, the center of the world, i.e. the center of the grid on each of Hammer's views is the origin which is also the origin of the 3D world in DarkBASIC. Make sure your camera is placed here to garuntee that you can see your BSP from the center. Basically, if your BSP in Hammer is offset by too much, it maybe that your Camera is outside of the BSP geometry which causes culling of the inner faces, making it invisible.

To start as a simple example, just build a single room in the center of your Hammer world and place the DB camera at the same location, just to see that you can actually view your BSP file without any problems.

APEX!

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Complex
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Posted: 26th Jul 2003 20:13
No joy APEX, the origin was already positioned in the center of the map, and there is no leaks or errors I'm warned about, but when I load my map in QuArK, it can't find the WAD I'm using, and I'm guessing DB can't either, because the help says "put any files that the standalone BSP uses in the project directory"

I put the WAD file in the directory of course, but I don't think the BSP is programmed to look relatively, I think they use absolute references (Like when you specify them in Hammer)

Is there anyway around this?

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 00:07
I'm very confused by this because if the BSP was created using Hammer and you've textured your geometry with textures from the specified WAD file, it should work. You haven't created textures within sub-folders of the WAD file have you, i.e.



Any WAD files i've created using Wally, all textures are placed on the root path. I will have to admit, I'm a bit stumped as to why you can't see your BSP, this hasn't been a problem for me when loading BSP files in DB.

As a test, you could always try loading one of the Half-Life BSP files from the game, ensuring you've placed it's WAD files into your project directory just to make sure that it's not a problem with your actual code or something.

APEX!

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Complex
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 13:58
Well, I'm stumped. I tested out the Half-Life BSP Crossfire and the Accompanying WAD halflife.wad and it worked fine. I've no idea anymore of why this isn't working so I've uploaded a zip here called HammerMapAlpha.zip

http://mysite.freeserve.com/subspace_software/HammerMapAlpha.zip

If the Zip doesn't work just say, I've had some FTP difficulties recently.

It contains the Hammer file, the Compiled BSP (Which works in Half-Life) and the Wad I made. See if anyone can make sense of this.

Excuse me while I go prepare the noose...

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 14:21
Ok mate, I'll download and have a bash, see what I come up with

Reply back in a while.

APEX!

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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 15:37
CompleXity,

Ok mate, one important thing I've found first is that you don't have any light sources in your BSP file, so loading into DBPro will cause some very odd effects on the walls, you would think it was a disco tech.

I have loaded the BSP file into DarkBASIC Pro (Patch 4.1) and it loaded and displayed fine, except that again, the wall textures are screwed because of the lack of lights. Place a light to allow VIS and RAD to make it look nice.

Other than that, it was fine

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Complex
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 17:16
Well, I'm still getting nowhere despite your advice. I think I'm missing something seriously stupid here.

Could you post your source Apex on how you loaded the BSP and navigated it? (I'm not looking for a masterpiece )

And It is just the BSP and the WAD you need in the project directory?

Cheers for the tip though

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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 17:19 Edited at: 27th Jul 2003 18:05
Ok mate, this will help. Goto http://www.apexnow.o-f.com and select the HammerAlpha.zip link, only the one, and download it. It's the test program I used to test your BSP file after adding a single light to it.

Try it and see if it works on your machine.

APEX!

EDIT: Damn, wrong file, sorry mate, hold on.....

EDIT: Ok mate, should be the right file now, it's called BSPTestHammerAlpha.zip, sorry about that LOL.

APEX!

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Complex
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Posted: 27th Jul 2003 19:24
That's Fantastic Apex, you're a huge help. Cheers

I'm still analising the code and looking for where I went wrong so I can learn from this.

Thanks mate!

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APEXnow
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Posted: 28th Jul 2003 00:26
No probs mate, hope you find out what it is

Look forward to a big smile hehe.

APEX!

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Complex
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Posted: 28th Jul 2003 01:19
Well, after messing around with Hammer, it turns out that the compilation setting weren't properly using the VIS and RAD tools (either that or I put the wrong value in somewhere, which is probably more likely ) so I've sorted out that obstacle.

Thanks again mate for the help .Shame that the collision is so darn buggy in DB though. Kinda ruins the whole thing, but at least when the bugs are fixed (Whenever that is...) I'll be ready to bash on.

Thanks

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APEXnow
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Posted: 28th Jul 2003 01:34
Glad to help

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Xander
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 06:15
Did I hear that if you ghost an object in your game then it ghosts the BSP level too? That really stinks. I was using static objects in my DB Classic game engine, and am converting to DB Pro. I was considering switching to BSP maps, but if I can't ghost any objects then that is not possible. No more static objects

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FlashFF
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 23:10
Ok, i may be a tad stupid here, but theres 2 things
I havent used Hammer Editor in a long while

1 - (the less stupid one) everytime I compile the map to a bsp, qrad.exe has a fatal error and crashes.. any ideas why and how to fix it?

2 - I keep hearing you guys say "put a light in"... dont you need an fgd for a game to telll the editor what a light is? Because its an entity right? What fgd do I use?

Thanks

-----
FlashFF

APEXnow
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 23:36 Edited at: 11th Aug 2003 23:37
Ok,

1: Download Zoner's BSP tools instead of using the compiler tools that came with Hammer, they are more stable and less... (Less) likely to go splat. The link for them is on the first post on page 1 of this topic.

2: Use the normal "Light" class, don't use any of the others as these are engine specific for HalfLife, using a normal point light will generate the desired lighting for your BSP which will load and display ok in DB.

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FlashFF
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 23:38
I dont have a light class.

Should i get the fgd from half life to get this?

FlashFF
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 23:44
damn... now i have this problem...
-------------- IN THE LOGFILE -----------------

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "c:\program files\valve hammer editor\maps\test.bsp" "D:\BSPMaps\test.bsp"

The command failed. Windows reported the error:
"The system cannot find the file specified."

-----------------------------------------------

same thing happens for the .pts files

argh...

FlashFF
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Posted: 12th Aug 2003 00:22
ok never mind had a few other problems, but fixed the lot now...

thanks for the help Apex, and those new compiling tools stopped the rad from breaking

APEXnow
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Posted: 12th Aug 2003 14:59
So'k mate, I was gonna mention though that the HalfLife.FGD file comes as part of the Hammer installation, but no matter

Glad to help.

APEX!

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2003 09:24
No offense to the people that created the sticky thread Ultimate BSP but some info in that thread for set up of VHammer is incorrect and a few key things have been omitted. I would still use that set of instructions to set up VHE3.4 but use this addendum sheet below along with it as I have found some discrepancies as follows

#1 Re: VHE3.4 INSTALL
After you download VHE34 DO NOT install to the default directory that it attempts - The compiler will blow up on BSP creation and in File Copy operation due to Long File Name issues with vhe RUN compiler, regardless of the checkbox in the run options that says "use long file names". I made a D:VHE34 directory to install the app to, and a D:VHEMAPS to send my compiled bsp files to. Remember 8 characters or less for the dirs and the files you create when using VHE.

#1A GET ZONER HL TOOLS - LATEST FGD - HALFLIFE.WAD
Get Zoner HL Tools like instructed and unzip to tools directory. These exe's replace the Q...exe's which have problems. If you have halflife the game, find the HALFLIFE.WAD file and COPY it to the TOOLS directory under your VHE install, where you unzipped the zoner tools. Find online the latest FGD file HALFLIFE_3X.FGD (sorry I don't remember where-I found it in my journeys) and put it in the FGD Directory

#2 THE RMF FILE DESTINATION
The RMF box should point to your maps directory under your install directory. This is NOT the same as to where you will put your Compiled bsp files.

#3 THE COMPILED MAPS DESTINATION
This is the location for the output files. See my advice in step 1 and remember no long dir names.

#4 SETTING UP COMPILER EXE'S
This relates to the part of the instructions that starts off "Finally we will have to configure the compiler section..."
I found this part of the instructions tricky to follow and partially incorrect. I will translate.
In order to compile a map your building into a BSP you need to let VHE what compilers to use for the 4 processes (CSG,BSP,VIS,RAD). The one's you need to use are the zoner hl tools you unzipped earlier. If you look at that dir now you'll see (among other things) 8 exe files, 4 that are named Q...exe, and four named HL...exe. The HL ones are the ones to point VHE to. Set up the tab to point to the HL exe's and you'll be ok.

#5 CMD AND PARAM SWITCHES for RUN/EXPERT
Your RUN/EXPERT screen needs a total of 6 entries that you create in the list. BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING that the instructions say, click the combo drop down list and select HALFLIFE(FULL) instead of your named DBPro(or whatever you named it) You'll see 7 entries. You need exactly the first six in your dbp setup. Unfortunately you can't just copy em over but there is still an easy way.

-Go into your DB set up in this RUN/EXPERT screen and follow the instructions I've been referring to to make the csg,bsp,vis,light commands but ignore placing params for now - DO NOT COPY PASTE FROM INSTRUCTIONS AS SLASHES ARE OMMITTED! You should now have 4 entries with no params. Switch back to HL(full) and select the first list item, on the right side of window copy from PARAM text box, switch back to your dbp setup, paste the params from hl into your params for your first four items (they are all the same).
Now make 2 Copy File Commands leaving the params blank. switch to HL(full) again get params from first Copy File Command and paste into your FIRST Copy File Command, Now go back to HL and get params for SECOND Copy File Command, switch back to your DB setup and Paste into your SECOND Copy File Params....check all 6 check boxes on and your done. Click GO to save the settings. Don't worry if it fails as you may not have you world ready to be compiled.

#6 TEST VHE COMPILER
Make a new project (RMF). Use a Box primitive and draw it in one of the views 8x8x8. Ok in the Tools dropdown menu choose HOLLOW option. When Input box pops up change 32 to 64 and click OK. On right of VHE IDE select the Texture dropdown and select the HALFLIFE.WAD (you can't use zhlt.wad in your settings as it has no usable textures-you'll get leaks if you try-trust me!), then pick any texture that looks like walls. With your box selected use Apply Texture button to apply texture, you should see the texture on the box in the Camera view port. If not click on empty area in Camera View and use View menu to set to 3D Texured Polygons. If your going to use this map in DBP you DON'T NEED A PLAYER START ENTITY but you DO NEED 1 LIGHT at least. Click ENTITY tool, on right of IDE under ENTITY Combo, you'll see another combo which lets you choose what kind of entity, SELECT LIGHT, now click once inside your box, MAKE SURE THE LIGHT IS WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE BOX FROM ALL THREE DIRECTIONS (top,side,front) When it is ok PRESS ENTER KEY. In the Camera View Fly inside your box, if you see a yellow light bulb icon you did the step correctly.

Now select RUN from File menu, Look at NORMAL scrren first and make sure CSG,BSP,RAD,VIS are all set to NORMAL. In EXPERT screen make sure everything looks as it did when you first set it up. click GO
The compiler should finish without errors

GOOD LUCK
HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE OUT AND SAVES THEM SOME TIME AS IT TOOK ME MANY HOURS OF TRIAL AND ERROR TO FIGURE ALL OF THIS OUT.
(If there is anything I forgot, or is unclear, or you get errors post in this thread and I will try to help)

PEACE

-RUST-
Yskonyn
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 11:06
I don't see why our first explanation would not work. In my opinion your view does exactly the same as we already worked out.
It had also been tested many times, but you're free to post any additional info as you did as you see fit, but I doubt the essence of this info...

Anyway I was wondering if patch 5 has any new improvements in the way BSP is handled by DBP? APex?

Yskonyn -
"It's better to wish down here you were up, then to wish up there you were down."
"The ONLY time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire."
APEXnow
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 11:26
Yskonyn, unfortunately not! See my bug report in the relavent forum. The collision commands have not yet been sorted out, and I've found a completely new bug that has arrisen since the Beta 5 updates!

CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 16:24
yskonyn:
did you read my post? I said I wasn't trying to offend anyone but the original post in this thread (IMO) was slightly confusing and possibly incomplete BASED ON PROBLEMS I ENCOUNTERED IN TRYING TO SET UP VHE3.4 for DBP - that's it! I recommended that people USE your instructions, but to keep in mind what I found. God forbid this helps some n00b set up their system.

Quote: "but I doubt the essence of this info..."


I am biting my tongue on this comment for now.
for now.

-RUST-
Yskonyn
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 17:33 Edited at: 29th Aug 2003 17:41
Wow, hold on here. I am seeing this thread evolve into a flamewar and that's the last thing I want.

I am not trying to neglect your efforts here in trying to make the situation as clear as possible for users to set up their BSP editing environment, the only thing I tried to point out here is that Apex and I have tested the information many times and it should normally work flawlessly if you use the versions specified.
Also some things you point out are not true: for example the "Setting up the compiler" issue which you point out to be incorrect is in fact correct. The strings you have to add are described in our tutorial so you do not have to set it to "Half life FULL" to see the strings.
About the FDG you are correct, we did not include that info.

Anyway I endorse everyone to add more convenient ways to setup the environment if they choose so, but I read your document and it might make people doing things twice instead of just once.

Nonetheless I'll take back what you quoted and no harm was and is intended.

Though BSP doesn't work for now (and therefore the whole BSP editing environment setup is kind of obsolete) so I have decided to do two things:
1) The most easy thing to do; wait for the command to be fixed.
2) Trying my luck on creating a convenient map editor to my liking which integrated Matrix and object handling into one editor.

Yskonyn -
"It's better to wish down here you were up, then to wish up there you were down."
"The ONLY time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire."
CattleRustler
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 19:18
Yskonyn

No flaming intended. I am just trying to help, as you are. I guess we can both rest assured that some n00b somewhere is being helped because of our efforts (our=everyone on dbp forums)

peace
Rust

ps whats the deal with patch five? I want to dload it but I hear that bsp stuff gets all wacked out.

-RUST-
APEXnow
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 22:17
CattleRustler,

Quote: "ps whats the deal with patch five? I want to dload it but I hear that bsp stuff gets all wacked out.
"
Not wacked out, just slightly broken. There's an issue with WAD textures at the moment and it's all ready documented under the bugs forum. The COLLISION commands do not function correctly at all with BSP files that have NOT been generated using the BSP/PVS compiler that came with DBPro. Most of the BSP issues are going to be resolved over the next couple of updates, i.e. 6-7.., As I understand correctly anywayz.

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