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DarkBASIC Discussion / MatEdit 2006

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TDK
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 01:10
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On a break from my commercial coding projects (and having received many e-mails over the past months asking if I will ever finish and release MatEdit Pro), I decided to go back and have a play with it.

I'm rewriting it from scratch and although it's progressing quite nicely, it's no longer called MatEdit Pro, but MatEdit 2006. (I renamed it because it's not for DB Pro users - it's being written in DB Classic for DBC users).

Since the original version was written, computer equipment has improved and while it used to run only in 800x600 screen mode, MatEdit 2006 will be fixed to running in 1024x768 mode.

What I wanted to know was how many of you cannot run DBC programs in 1024x768x32 screen mode - the mode which was so problematic back when the original was released.

The other thing I need is a few users who can test out the protection system for me to make sure it works on all user's machines while it's in it's early stages.

Any volunteers?

TDK

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UFO
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 01:23 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2006 01:23
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yay! I can't express my excitement in words.

I can run DBC programs in 1024*786*32, which is the highest dimensions my monitor can handle.

And I'm open for beta testing for the protection system, but I won't be able to download it until Thursday.

I'm so happy

I also posted the first reply

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SimSmall
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 10:06
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I'd like to try it too, but does this protection system require an internet connection? My far better (OK, slightly decent) machine has no internet connection.

I've never had any problems with 1024,768,32. I only ever had problems with 24-bit resolutions. as the only card I ever had that supported 24-bit was an S3 Virge.. Back in the day...

Quote: "I can run DBC programs in 1024*786*32, which is the highest dimensions my monitor can handle."


Wow, I thought I was pretty much the only person to still use a 15-inch... I'm not alone
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 10:56
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You should make it so the user can pick from a selection of available display modes.

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TDK
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 14:41
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Zotoaster:

I was waiting for someone to say that in a QI sort of way... you lose 10 points!!

User screen mode selection with a game is no problem - you just set the display and away you go. Utilities and non-games applications are another thing completely because of the user interface.

This itself isn't a problem with programming languages like Delphi and VB, but in DBC it isn't really worth all the extra coding involved.

SimSmall:

It does involve the internet, but only in as much as you need access to e-mail to send the contents of a text file and receive the unlock key.

This doesn't have to be on the machine MatEdit is installed on as you can just write the information down and go to another machine.

I should have a runnable version for download by this weekend for anyone willing to help out and if no-one has any problems with the first version, maybe start a post on the WIP board?...

TDK

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 15:16
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Quote: "Utilities and non-games applications are another thing completely because of the user interface."


I know what you're thinking, but really, instead of specifying coordinates for the uder interface (i.e. addButton(10,10,100,100)) you could do addButton(screen width()/100,screen height()/100,screen width()/10,screen height()/10).

And that's how I get around it

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TDK
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 16:37
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I agree that's how it's done, but it's hard work when you have a lot of buttons in the GUI.

Also, if the user selects 800x600 then the buttons are often too small to fit the text on when it looks OK in 1024x768 mode.

I don't think 1024x768 is too high a spec to fix a program to these days - I just wanted to know if 32 bit colour would be a problem to many users that's all.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 16:50
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I don't think there's really that much difference between 32 bit mode and 16, so if you ask me, it's better to be safe that sorry... also, that could be something the user could pick, would affect the GUI

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Ginga
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 00:24
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my beast of a monitor can go a fair bit higher than that. at the mo its 1280x1024x32

I'd love to be a beta tester for this, as i have the original, and i've used it quite alot, and tried modelling my own based on it (which i've never actually finished).
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Latch
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 01:18
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@TDK

Hello,

Thanks for all your input, applications, and examples for DBC.

As far as resolution, I prefer 800x600x32 for applications. I don't see any real advantage to having the resolution higher. On my machine there's often a performance hit beyond that. And I prefer a larger character display just for the sake of less eye strain.

Is the protection being applied for the sake of ultimately selling the matrix editor? If the goal would be to sell it, then a resolution selection would help as a selling point in my opinion.

I would also guess, a lot of users that are using DarkBasic Classic as opposed to DB Pro, might have less powerful machines and older operating systems (less than XP). This of course is an assumption. If that is so, resolution selection would be another added bonus.

Enjoy your day.
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TDK
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 03:53 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2006 04:08
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Quote: "my beast of a monitor can go a fair bit higher than that. at the mo its 1280x1024x32"


I use a twin 19" FST monitor setup - each running at 1280x1024x32 too - because they tend to look fuzzy running at anything lower!

Quote: "Is the protection being applied for the sake of ultimately selling the matrix editor?"


No not really. I've always said that MatEdit would be a free tool for the DB community.

The new version will do the same as the old one and a lot more besides. It also does many of the original things a lot better.

But I've now more or less perfected the modular plug-in system I'd been working on which means that users can create their own plug-ins for it.

These can be anything from world editors to lightmap editors and are simply dropped into the modules directory.

If anyone creates a really useful one, then there's no reason that they can't sell it to anyone who wants it.

But it's not fair to me if others are making a profit from my work so I decided to have two versions:

* An unregistered free version which does everything the old version does plus more, (so I keep my promise that it would always be free). This version will not run third-party modules.

* A registered version which allows you to use third-party modules written by me, yourself or others.

I was thinking of $5 to unlock the unregistered version...

As far as the screen rez is concerned, MatEdit 2006 is really only a shell which calls the modules. This makes it a lot smaller and faster than the old version - even in 1024x768 mode. You don't really do much work in it.

The modules can be designed to run in any resolution though.

Hopefully most of everyone's concerns will be answered at the weekend when I will release the screen rez/protection system demo.

Here's a screenshot of the 'shell' (sorry it's a bit on the big side at 1024x768 but it looked too fuzzy when reduced to 800x600):



TDK

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Lukas W
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 09:36 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2006 09:39
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look at that. it's dbpro-ish quality!

TDK,
i am in the process of upgrading an old world editor of mine (no terrain/matrix manipulation though, as i've never understood the logic behind that). it allready support matEdit v1.6 maps (for import), and it would be awesome if i could do the same with matEdit 2006

allways loved matedit, and i used to use it a lot when i was newb, well.. newb-ier.

but tell me, will this be a matrix editor only, or will it also support object placing etc. if so, then i won't bother compete with you

edit,
i see that you are using modules in the 2006 version.
this means that you, or somebody else, could write a world editor on top of matEdit. atleas ti think so, yea?

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TDK
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 13:55 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2006 13:59
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Quote: "this means that you, or somebody else, could write a world editor on top of matEdit. atleas ti think so, yea?"


That's right.

For example, you could put the world editor code you are writing into the skeleton module .DBA file that comes with MatEdit 2006, compile it and drop it into the Modules folder.

It would then appear on the Modules drop-down.

And no - MatEdit 2006 will not come with a world editor module so there won't be any competition from me!

TDK

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Ginga
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 14:52
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looking good, can't wait for the beta version.

Quote: "I use a twin 19" FST monitor setup - each running at 1280x1024x32"


Now that is nice! I dont have room for 2 monitors tho
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TDK
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 04:21 Edited at: 26th Nov 2006 04:23
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OK, here's the demo as promised.

PLEASE READ ALL OF THE FOLLOWING BEFORE USING!!!!

I have to stress that this is only a demo. It's NOT a beta version or even an alpha version - it's only to test out the registration key code side of the program. Most things do not work yet - there's just enough for you to sample what the finished version will be like.

Please do not post what it doesn't do properly, how slow it is, what bugs you found etc. - it's nowhere near that stage yet. You are however allowed to post words of encouragement if you want me to finish it!

Only one real module (plug-in) is included (the Terraformer) and that's been knocked together quickly to supply with the demo and doesn't work as it should do yet.

The other one is a 'third-party' example module called Skeleton Test which is only the skeleton module dba file (supplied with MatEdit 2006), just compiled and dropped into the Modules directory.

Please note that this SHOULD NOT WORK when the program is unregistered. Even when registered, it won't do anything, but it should run.

To test the reg key system, please go to Registration on the Help menu and enter your name and e-mail address into the boxes. Click on the Generate button and a file will be created in the same folder as MatEdit 2006.exe called MatEditReg.txt.

Simply e-mail that file to me as an attachment.

I will e-mail back to you a file called MatEditReg.key which you need to drop into the main MatEdit 2006 folder. This will be sent to the email address you supply so remember to check it for errors.

When you next run the program, it will not say Unregistered in the top right corner of the main title screen and you should be able to run the Skeleton Test module.

Lukas W

If you would like a copy of the skeleton module DBA file so you can experiment with pasting your world editor into it, just e-mail me.

Download: http://www.computechtenerife.com/me2006_install.zip

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TDK
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 20:17 Edited at: 26th Nov 2006 20:18
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Just sent out a batch of keys - check your email if you sent me a text file.

Please let me know if everything went to plan - along with any comments if you feel like it.

One that I received however had the line:

UserID=

This info is used to generate your key so if it's empty then something has gone wrong and I cannot create a key for you.

If this happens to you, post here letting me know what version of Windows you are using.

As I only have XP, there may be a problem with the functions when running on other versions of Windows - hence the reason for this demo version...

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Lucifer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 20:56
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i get run time errors.. like in the old mat edit...



One is the lonliest number...
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TDK
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:04
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I've installed it on all the systems here and it runs fine.

The exact run-time error(s) you get would be useful...

TDK_Man

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SimSmall
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:08
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Registered no problem... but click on start project - give it a name...
Runtime error 99 (AKA Object does not eixst)

That and every time I run it, it instantly minimizes, then opening it up again causes either the words "unregistered" to flicker... now that's it's registered "MatEdit 2006" is what flickers... This is on Windows 2000 SP4 if that makes any difference.
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UFO
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:15
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It didn't give me a userid, and I have windows XP pro(I think thats what it is. The one thats not home).

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Mason
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:27
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I just ran it and everything seemed to run good. I'm sending you the file now.


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TDK
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:38
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SimSmall

Runtime error 99 confirmed. That's my fault sorry - I didn't intend for that option to even be enabled but forgot to disable it.

I must repeat (to everyone) that it's not a working demo for anything other than the reg key testing. Anything else that happens to work is purely a bonus!

The flickering appears to be a bug with Sync in DBC when using fonts of different sizes on the same screen. You can confirm this by closing the program (Alt-F4 is quickest) then re-run it again. More often than not, it doesn't flicker the second time.

I'm still not quite sure how the same program can have sync problems one time you run it and not another. But I've thought of a workaround and once Lucifer lets us know what errors he's getting I'll provide a patch.

The unregistered bit shouldn't appear if you have MatEdit 2006.exe, MatEditReg.txt and MatEditReg.key all present in the same folder.

If you have then it might be down to Windows 2K though it shouldn't be a problem because like XP, it's the NT kernel. I would have expected 95/98/ME to be the problematic versions...

As I don't use Win2K, would you be good enough to try a couple of things for me before I have to dig out my Win2K CD and install it? If so, we'll do it via e-mail so as not to clog up this thread.

UFO

It's empty in the text file, but is it empty on the screen with the Generate button?

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SimSmall
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 21:44 Edited at: 26th Nov 2006 22:31
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Quote: "As I don't use Win2K, would you be good enough to try a couple of things for me before I have to dig out my Win2K CD and install it? If so, we'll do it via e-mail so as not to clog up this thread."


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Mason
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 23:20
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I just got your email and put it in the folder. The first time I ran it with the key, it still said unregistered. I exited and started the program again and the 'unregistered' text was gone so It worked, but on the second time I started up Matedit.

As for the Skeleton test, I tried to run it and it told me that in order to use it, a matrix must be loaded first. The program doesn't let you make matrices yet so I'm not sure if I can really test the Skeleton Module


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TDK
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 23:43
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Quote: "The program doesn't let you make matrices yet so I'm not sure if I can really test the Skeleton Module"


That's why you get the ME2006 matrix which you can load from the Projects folder.

You can't test it in the real sense of the word because it doesn't do anything. What you are actually testing is the fact that with an unregistered version of the program you can't run it.

With a registration key present you can.

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Mason
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 00:09
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Alright I loaded the matrix and ran the Skeleton test; everything went smoothly and the registration works in my book


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TDK
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 00:48
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Quote: "the registration works in my book"


Good - thanks for that.

As I'm currently interested only in whether the registration process works, I'm not going to post loads of updates fixing problems with other parts of the program. I'll do that in a WIP post when it's a bit more stable.

This one fixes a registration problem for Win2K users, (thanks to SimSmall), and while I was at it, rather than just disable the New Project option, I fixed the problem - so it should now work OK.

I also seem to have fixed the Sync problem which was causing the flashing for some of you.

The download is ONLY the patched MatEdit2006 exe program - not the full install so unzip it into the MatEdit 2006 folder overwriting the old one.

http://www.matedit.com/matedit2006_exe.zip

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Mason
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 01:11 Edited at: 27th Nov 2006 01:20
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I just ran the updated exe and actually played around with a few of the modules. The terrain module is the best I've seen compared to other matrix editors. I like the smoothing tool as it works really good; pointy matrices are a killer..

Is this going to work for both DBC and Dark Basic Pro. I have DBC but I don't use it anymore since DBPro came out.


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TDK
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 03:40
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Well as there are better native alternatives to the matrix in DBP, most people don't use them. DBC users don't have much choice - apart from objects - which aren't as easy as matrices for the beginner.

Having said that, MatEdit only creates a data file full of numbers - which can be read in by DBP just as easily as DBC.

The reason MatEdit wouldn't work previously was that the #include file supplied with it was written for DBC and DBP works slightly differently. Once a DBP loader was written it worked fine.

So, the answer is yes, it could be used with DBP if a DBP loader is created. It just depends on if anyone thinks it's worth the effort.

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Mason
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 04:09
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Ya thats true, I forgot that DBC doesn't have terrain. I use matrices for certain situations when I'm programming, so it could be worth it. I would use it, especially if I'm working on something which I don't want to sit around and deal with making height maps and such.


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Soroki
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@TDK_Man

I don't know if you will remember me, but I sent you an email not too long ago regarding MatEdit Pro. I am most certainly pleased to see that you have decided to revisit the project. Excuse me for going slightly off the main discussion, but will this version of MatEdit support objects? That would certainly be helpful. Manually placing objects can be a major pain in the posterior, if you know what I mean.

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Zotoaster
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Will it be able to use heightmaps (i.e. apply to matrix and export)? Damn that would be usefull..

Not to be annoying or anything, but another really usefull tool would be a hill maker, i.e. You make a circle or a set size, and a set intensity, and wherever that circle is on the matrix it will form a hill.

I completely understand if it's too late to put these in, but if not, I urge you to give it a shot

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Soroki
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Yes, that would also be nice. I have figured out how to use the old MatEdit to make nice hills, but it takes too much time and I often end up raising parts I don't want to raise. I like Zotoaster's idea though. If you have ever used T.Ed(I only have the trial) then it has a nice hill maker. I am glad that MatEdit 2006 is going to be released, because I was just about to buy T.Ed, until I saw this.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 20:31
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You sure it's gonna be out during 2006?

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Soroki
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 21:03
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That is a good question, isn't it? 2006 is coming to an end very soon.

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Mason
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 00:10 Edited at: 28th Nov 2006 00:11
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Quote: "Will it be able to use heightmaps (i.e. apply to matrix and export)? Damn that would be usefull.. another really usefull tool would be a hill maker"

From what I understand, Matedit 06 supports modules. Pretty much all of these tools your talking about can be made by you, tdk, or other members of the community. So I guess if it doesn't come in the first release, we cud make these ourselves which I thought was pretty sik

Quote: "will this version of MatEdit support objects?"

No it's not coming with a world editor/object placement. A few posts up he mentions that because I think someone else asked. Maybe someone could write a module that does it?

I'm definitely down for throwing out 5 bucks to you TDK, sounds like a good program to me. Back a couple years ago when you were making Matedit pro, I was pretty stoked till you disappeared for a while hahaha. I'm glad to see you picked this project back up. You should probably start your W.I.P. as it looks like its progressed far enough


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TDK
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 00:34 Edited at: 28th Nov 2006 00:38
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MatEdit has always used heightmaps. So will the new version.

Hills:

If you have any concerns about creating hills, then all I can say is try out the terraforming module which was supplied with the demo.

Yes it is a little rough and ready because the whole thing was knocked together in a couple of hours so there was at least one module to supply with the program.

But it does work - sort of...

Try this:

1. Load the ME2006 matrix.
2. Run the Terrain Editor module.
3. Use the Flatten Matrix option so you have a flat matrix to play with.
4. Use the Random Matrix option:

The top slider is the hill frequency and the bottom slider is the smoothing factor. Set the top slider to the required value and use the Generate buton.

When the terrain looks right, adjust the smoothing slider. The small button to the right (with a dot on it) will apply smoothing to the matrix without regenerating the random hill pattern.

Click OK when finished.

Finally, use the Height Adjuster option. This adjusts the height of the matrix but keeps the aspect ratio.

This means that if you have two hills - one a third taller than the other - if you use the slider to increase the height of the hills 40%, the bigger one will still be one third taller than the other.

When you exit the Terrain Editor the changes will be seen when you get back to MatEdit.

And yes, on January 1st, the program will be renamed MatEdit 2007!

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Mason
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Posted: 28th Nov 2006 03:56
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You think u'll be making a w.i.p. soon?


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Zotoaster
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TDK, when you say modules, do you mean includes and functions?

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Lukas W
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if I understand it correctly, by modules he mean external applications that will be integrated into matedit.

basically, you can write addons to the main application. these addons are 3rd party modules, which in order to use you must register your copy.

for example, you have matedit (and all official modules, that don't need registration) for editing your matrix. say you want to be able to place trees, grass, houses, waterfalls etc.
you can then write a module for matedit that does this.

atleast, this is what i think they are.

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TDK
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 16:57 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 17:00
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Quote: "atleast, this is what i think they are."


You are correct.

The module is supplied as a skeleton .DBA file. You simply write your code in the defined Public section.

When you have compiled it, you just put the exe in the modules folder and it will appear on the third-party modules list on the menu in MatEdit.

The skeleton program already includes all the code for loading the matrix so the matrix is already there when your program runs. All you have to do is simply use the supplied variables to access it in the program you write.

As mentioned previously, the module you write can do whatever you like. Although pointless, you could write a Space Invaders module if you wanted!

Modules for placing objects, lights, ambient sounds or weather would seem a much better idea.

TDK_Man

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indi
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 02:59
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when you get closer TDK ill make this a sticky for you in this board.

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