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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Dark Basic Pro in school

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glyvin101
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 22:05
Hey,

I just talked with my teacher and next semester I am going to be allowed to take a independent study course in DBP. I am wondering what all I should order, and what I should do to come prepared to learn with as little downtime as possible. As of now I am considering ordering DBP the 90$ version, and vol 1 of the book. I have the old DB class book but this new book looks like it will be alot better, and it is aimed at DBP.

I would like to know what else you think I should buy if anything to learn to design and code games.

I also would like you thoughts on the book. How good of a teaching aid do you think it is?

any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated,

Glyvin101
Xenocythe
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 01:20
Go for it. Buy it and you WILL be (more than) satisfied. I guarentee that.


glyvin101
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 01:22
yea, my dad is giving me some lines that I should learn C or C++ rather then DBP. He says I need to learn something that I can build upon and that I can use when applying for a job..what do you guys think of those comments
indi
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 01:29
Its a fair argument, however DBP will allow you to prototype stuff much faster then C/C++, and you can use both skills if you get into the SDK.

Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 03:28
First of all what are you going to be coding in school?


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glyvin101
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 04:01
Well its a independent study so basicly whatever I want, I like to code games, i think, but my dad reccommends doing C++ for better reference and its a known and used language, but I kinda like DBP idk what to do
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 04:05
Well if you want to use DBP but you know it would be better for you to use C++ then i would go with Dark Game SDK it has the same commands of DBP but with the power of C++...You should look into it. http://darkgamesdk.thegamecreators.com/. Got any questions about it post in the SDK forum.


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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 05:21
If you have to impress a teacher to get a good grade you should do it in Darkbasic Pro. You can work for months and still have only two colors to work with in C++ (black and white).
Ugh
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 05:34
Hmm.. Off topic question - About the C++, can you do any code that C++ has? Just wondering.


I wish my school could add that. I'll talk to my Computer Apps teacher in High School.
glyvin101
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 22:14
well what can I tell my dad, to convince him that DBP would not be a total waste of my time
Mikey spike
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 22:38
Well what i would do is tell him that you want to be come part of the game making indistory and not just make programs that have allready been made. If you dad stil won't let you then just go with the SDK
glyvin101
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 23:31
its not a matter of him letting me , but still say I did go into game design would they care that I had a knowledge of DBP?
Gamedesign er20
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 23:42
Quote: "but still say I did go into game design would they care that I had a knowledge of DBP? "

Probably not, but that's what college is for. If you really wanted to get into a carrer in game design, then you wouldn't just learn a programming language, walk into Nintendo(or whatever place you want to work at) and say I can program, hire me. The best thing would be to goto a college that can help you get too where you want to go(and teach C++)

Cocacola and Pepsi aren't that differnt. Deal with it.
glyvin101
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Posted: 30th Nov 2006 23:50
Yes, Im not really sure what I want to do yet, that is why he says I should learn C because it can be applied to so many difference situations. But I really wanna have some fun, and take a semester to learn DBP I have never actually made a game, something I have wanted to do
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 00:02
Quote: "well what can I tell my dad, to convince him that DBP would not be a total waste of my time"

Just tell your dad your wanting to have fun and learn how to make games easy. Convince him that learning DBP as your first language is better then learning C++ as a first. Just say you want to get off to a good start with programming. I personally started off with C++ first. I was sick and tired of it and i quit and just pretty much gave up. Until one day i was googling and found DBP it changed my life with programming once i programmed in DBP for 1.5 yrs. I started C++ and now im thinking about getting the SDK


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Code Dragon
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 00:35 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 21:12
I told a few people in school about how I write games in DBP, and they're like "Cool! How do you do that?!" Then I tell them I write the computer programs, and they're like "How did you learn how to do that?!". There's alot of stuff people would love to do, like make video games, that they think is soo complicated and unfathomable that they never think of googling it and stumble across this site.

C++ is for more advanced coders. In the games buisness, C++ is the standard language. It's very fast, and can be compiled for any console. DBP is only for Windows, but it's a whole lot easier than C++.

I can't write a C++ program without getting at least 3 syntax errors, and I have not idea how much Direct X initization code I'll need to write before I can make a spinning cube. Though, in C++ you will write your own function to make a cube, and then you'll be able to make cubes almost as fast as DBP.

It's still not the same as writing "make object cube" though.

glyvin101
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 01:47
indeed, DPB would not be my first language I know VB.net and I have dabbled in C++ a bit
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 01:54
I would recommend the Dark Game SDK then.


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glyvin101
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 04:44
yea, I have not looked at that much, but it does not look nearly as promising as DBP
Mason
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 06:51
I've thought about why I use Dark Basic Pro when I could just move onto c++ a couple of times before. I didn't realize it, but with out DB, I wouldn't be half as good at programming as I am now.

The hard part about programming is not learning the syntax of the language, such as what commands and libraries the language has, but more of game design theories, algorithms, and problem solving. With Dark Basic, you learn all of these things much quicker for a couple of reasons. One, your seeing your results graphically, instead of a lovely black command prompt. Certain things are simplified so you can focus on the harder things such as algorithms and such. And most of all, you'll have a lot more fun learning Dark Basic then other advanced languages.

In my opinion, start with Dark Basic Pro and learn that for your class. After that class, begin learning c++ until points where it feels like your stuck. Then jump back onto DBPro for a while, learn some cool stuff, and try to apply it in your c++ works. That is what I've been doing and it's helped a lot.


Mr X
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 08:42
I started using DBPro for about a year ago. And I still love it. However, I'm learning C# at school at the moment. To learn DBPro first, I believe, helpt me to learn C#, since it made so I learned how to think.

I've never used C++, but I know that it's harder then DBPro. So you can go for DBPro first, and then try C++. Or C, if you prefer. Anyway, DBPo can help you to handle the more advanced languages later, by learning how to think and things like that.

Goodluck with you class.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 08:49
Just tell your dad that you like playing games, and you are inspired to go beyond that and see what games are really made of, and then show him some of the games in the showcase for DBP so he understands you are programming with a powerful language, and that there is skill involved, not just cut and paste, not to forget that DBP is a step towards and actually prepares you for a higher level language, if say you tell him that you'll learn the basics, calling variables, basic "code" structure and flow, he will see that you aren't just making some game... He'll see you are the EA prodigy and perhaps one day expose DBP to the big time game production companies. I personally like DBP because it's not just writing code and validating it, but as indi said, you see results immediately, and it's faster than C++.

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
glyvin101
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Posted: 1st Dec 2006 23:27
I can't seem to get a grasp of what Dark SDK is, is it a library for the C complier or what is it, has anyone had any good experiences with it?
Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 01:01 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2006 01:04
To attempt to answer a few of your questions.

Quote: "its not a matter of him letting me , but still say I did go into game design would they care that I had a knowledge of DBP?"

They wouldn't care if you had a knowledge of DBPro. However if you tell them (and show if they want) that you made games for a hobby, then they will be interested in that. A programmer who likes what he's doing will usually do better than one who is just there for money. So if they know that you voluntarily programmed games by yourself they might be more interested in you.

and of course if that really is the industry you want to go into then you would learn C++/directx/opengl/whatever in college. (get a computer science degree, not some sort of "game developer" degree, most degrees aimed at making games are rubbish, and as such most employers would rather you had a plain computer science degree.) I have seen people coming into Computer Science 1 with absolutely no clue what's happening (and if you used DBPro/DarkSDK you would have plenty of a clue)

Quote: "I can't seem to get a grasp of what Dark SDK is, is it a library for the C complier or what is it, has anyone had any good experiences with it?"

It is basically a library yes. a "Software Development Kit" just like DirectX. It provides all of the DarkBasicProfessional commands in a C++ environment. So you use all the C++ core commands and Object Oriented Programming. You could also use most things made for C++, though you wouldn't be able to mix 3D engines of course

So yeah, it uses the C++ compiler (though it only works with certain compilers)

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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 02:17
Very well said Peter.


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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2006 14:16
I haven't read everhting here so sorry if I have misunderstood or am repeating something but here we go!

Firstly, Dark BASIC is used in some game development degrees. It obviously isn't totally looked down upon and is a really good way to get into game making.

Secondly, as a game designer you maky be expected to do some scripting so any programming knowledge at all will come in handy.

wickedly kick it
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 04:21
Let me tell you something i learned from Web Coding, learn one and you learn the others in half the time it took you to learn the first

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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 05:47 Edited at: 6th Dec 2006 05:49
If nothing else, using DBP to create games will most definitely teach you how to properly structure a game engine, and will also help you by leaps and bounds in the process of creating a working system for any other kind of program.

Using something straightforward about the subject, like DBP, will allow you to think like a computer, follow and plot the program flow, and be able to construct more and more stable, flexible systems and methods of execution, without having to dig around in the low-level and quite tedious technical aspects of the program.

Using DBP, you will be able to focus on the way your game engine runs and be able to tell it what to do in quick, organized sets of instruction, and not have to write seventy lines to call only a few functions in order to define or initialize something. Examples of doing this tedious work are filling an instance of the D3D object, or a window. Infact both of these will not even be bothered with by the programmer, because DBP was created with the intent to keep the programmer worring about the way the game runs one-hundred percent.



However, after mastering DBP, it will be in your very best interest to learn to program in C++. With the knowledge and mindset you will have acquired through programming complex systems in easy compilers like DBP, C++ will be worlds easier to understand.

C++ is also a more optimal choice because it provides the ability to program games and multimedia applications with OpenGL--which, once understood properly, is much more streamlined than the now-seemingly bulky DirectX, and just as powerful; not to mention the fact that it works on Macs


MEH

indi
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 11:12
I tried to do it twice in two different uni /colleges I was teaching in but they stared at me blankly.

Code Dragon
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Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:22
What I can't understand is why DBP and DB are looked down on at all. I know it's tied to Windows and DirectX and therefore can't be used for console games, but it's still very powerful and easy. Is it because it's not as fast as C++ or the EXEs are too large? Juding by the bloated code that some retail companies write this shouldn't be an issue. But I really think the DBP compiler should be makeing faster code than it currently does, because C++ outruns it by a whole lot of FPS.

Crit
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Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:52
It's looked down on because it has the word BASIC in the title. Beginners All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. Programming snobs look down on Basic.

Personally, I have a degree in computer science, and I've used everything from c++ to perl, lisp, assembly code, etc. For the most part, you can find a way to do anything in any language. It's just a matter of syntax. In 20 years, people will be looking down on c++.

I use Dark Basic because my brother knows basic. If I programmed in C++, I'd have to do it all myself

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:40 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 22:40
That's too bad that so many people know what it stands for. I remember seeing this really long thread about why BASIC is predujeced, can't remember what site it was on though. The acroynm's always the one the C++ gurus pull on BASICs of all kind. Maybe we should change it to a G to stand for Guru's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code, if you all like GASIC.

Crit
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Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:47
Good Idea, although that name might be ammo for people with other prejudices. How about drop the B and make it ASIC?

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 18th Dec 2006 23:22
I think there already is an ASIC programming language...

We'd be in the same boat as PEARL and PERL.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 04:16
I'l post again...

For school ot hobbies, I recomend DBPro.

For a job, it should be obvious that you go for the C++

-Mansoor Siddiquie

David Gervais
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Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:38
My 2 cents..

Way back when I used to dabble in QuickBasic 4.5, but the base language was limited and I hated trying to wrap my head aroung making basic graphic functions, so I picked up the SVGAQlib graphics library for QB45. It's an add on third party lib that gave the language a whole lot of graphics potential. QB45's major disadvantage aws the limit of 64k file size for the source...

I then Grabbed the Dev C++ (free compiler) and with it the Allegro lib for it's outstanding graphics and sound functions. C or C++ on their own have little or no graphics functions, as a 'true programmer' you are expected to learn how to do all that on your own. I say Bah Humbug. Save yourself allot of headache and buy a third party lib for c c++ that adds the graphics functions you need. The disadvantage of using free compliers and libs is you cannot make commercial games without violating the licence. So, invest in a good compiler and library of pre made functions.

Now I have DBPro, it has all the functions I need and more, plus If I make a game I can compile it, package it and sell it if I so choose. I think DBPro is an awesome choice. The only other choice that I am considering is PlayBasic. since most if not all my work is in 2D games. DBPro has the advantage of having 3D functions available if I make the switch to 3D games in the future. It is the best of both worlds.

And, Any programming experience is better than none. If you have sample code and programs to show off your talent it goes a long way to helping you get a foot in the door in the gaming industry.

In my case, there are most certainly a whole lot of better artists in this industry than my humble self, but Artists who also understand programming are still rare. And it helps allot when sitting in on a game design meeting and you can grasp the concepts being put forward by the programmers.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

Cheers!
Code Dragon
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 00:23 Edited at: 20th Dec 2006 00:25
It's strange how, when making games, you need programming and art, you really can't have one and not the other. With programming and not art you have a boring assortment of moving cubes, with art and not programming you have a boring assortment of objects that do nothing. That's why I'm trying to learn modeling, there's just nothing to motivate me to get better at game making unless the games will look good.

Charlie
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 21:26
Hi. Cool idea. I would like in my school to add something of programming. I have wished that since elementary school. Now I am in 8° grade. The only problem is that I think I am the only one in my school who knows about programming, since I live in Mexico. But come on, it is a good idea to use DB Pro for teaching. Rather than other programs, DB is not a RAD program, but a complete game development software, so it is good to master it to create proffesional games, such as FireWall.

Have a nice day
Agent766
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Posted: 27th Dec 2006 00:36
Ok. I would say go with DBP. I'm in 7th grade. I looked at a few lines of some kind of C code. I looked at it and had no idea what the heck I was reading. My friends dad got DB and I ran it, looked in the tutorials, and could under stand most of the code. That was before I started any kind if programming. I would say DBP would be simpler to learn and you can also memorize more commands.

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 28th Dec 2006 23:30 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 23:33
Indeed, C and C++ is very cryptic, but my uncle gave me this (very old) book about C and once you get used to the syntax it's very straighforward. I still like DBP better though because I can never remember to put semicolons after my C++ function calls.

Bottom line: DBP is much easier to learn than C++, and in many ways you can code faster, but C++ creates near assembly speed code and is a general purpose language so it's useful in lots of areas, but DBP is geared towards game making.

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Senkan
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Posted: 1st Jan 2007 00:25
Go with DBPro. It's easy to understand and very cheap for a game engine (Unreal Engine costs 100 000 dollars!). I got my DBPro for about month ago and I have learned a lot just by watching DBPro's command list and reading it's tutorials. Now I'm waiting for Hands on DBPro vol. 1 book. By the way it is said that when you learn one programming language, it is easy to learn the other ones. (Sorry if I have repeated something. I haven't read every post.)

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