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FPSC Classic Product Chat / static lights????

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Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 20:23
In the manual it says that static lights are more efficient than dynamic lights. So I put just four static lights in my game and when I attempted to build a test level it got to creating lightmaps and just sat there for two hours. Is that normal? When I use dynamic lights it loads much quicker. Basically I wanna raise my frame rate and thought the lighting would help. what should I do?

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Storm 6000
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 20:58
huh lighting is an effect an so would lower the frame rate :S, if you mean you wana use static instead of dynamic to increase the framerate then you need to go to preference and set it to quick lightmapping but even that may take a long time if you have a stupid amount of lights, to get the finished level properly lightmapped you use full light mapping and leaving it over night normally does the trick

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Adam
Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 21:10
you need to make sure you use the [ and ] to shorten the range of the light. if all 4 are on the default range it will take that long. you can right click the light and change the distance as well i recommend no more than 75 for range.


RF

Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 23:08
so if I leave it over night and run the test game and it works that would be good. But if I build the game as a stand alone .exe, would it take that long as well to load the game whenever you paly it?

LIFE: "That thing that happens to us when we are too young to die"
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 00:32 Edited at: 10th Dec 2006 00:33
nah i mean basicly never use full lighting on a test run, when you have your game perfect and want to give it out, sell it, whatever, build it using full light mapping, this takes several hours so its easiest to put it on before you go to bed and its done in the morning there have been rare occasions where it has crashed or taken abit longer than this but it does seem to do it eventually 99% of the time, as for playing the game no because once it is lightmapped it only has to apply light maps not calculate them so it would only take as long to load as it would normally

Thanks
Adam
Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 05:07
Ok, will remember that. One other question on lights
When I test the game the dynamic lights work on switches, but when I build the game, they are defaulted on. I changed the appear.fpi to lightoff.fpi and all. Appropriately named the lights and switches, but low and behold a computer gnome must have went in and turned them all on for me lol. In reality, how can I fix this?

LIFE: "That thing that happens to us when we are too young to die"
~V.J.C. 2003
Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 05:18
If I were to use the static lights at the 75 range, how many would be too many?

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FredP
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 06:23
I am not sure.
I have used quite a few static lights in my level.
It would depend on whether you wanted to use soft lightmapping or full lightmapping.
I have never had too many lights in my level for it to work.
I just know that when you use quite a few static lights and full lightmapping it takes forever to test/build your game.
So when you build your game and use full lightmapping go find something else to do.
It even says in the manual that it might be a good idea to start building your game and then let it build all night and come back to your computer in the morning.

Les Horribres
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 08:38
I AM almost certain there is a limit of 100 static lights (in v 1.0 at least). So that is your answer. However... 75 seems to be cutting it... I mean, obviously, to properly light a room you need more then 75 (but use 2 lights to create an ovalish effect) uless you are smashing in as many lights as possible... but I would only recommend THAT if you were creating an atmosphere (not just small lights)

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 12:14
Les Horribres- Not 75 different static lights. I was talking about the light range.

So if the light range is left at 500 (default) and you place four of 'em in a room it will take a while to render the test level.

If you place 8 lights at 75 light range it takes a few minutes to render the test level.

I have 15 in my new level so far and the game renders in about 2 minutes. but i always keep the light range to a more realistic setting.

RF

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Posted: 10th Dec 2006 13:12 Edited at: 10th Dec 2006 13:13
lol I cant see anyone whos answered your new question cruise, it all in the main script really, you should look at learning to script when you can. Your solution:

1.Download the atttached light3.fpi and place in scriptbank
2.load you level
3.Place a dynamic light and changes its main script to light3.fpi
4.Place a switch called whatever you like and makes sure the name of the light is in the "if used" box
5.Run your level and the light will start off but you may need to turn down the ambience to get the full effect

Thanks
Adam

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 11:03 Edited at: 11th Dec 2006 11:28
A build time of hours has nothing to do with the light range at all, since you're only using 4 lights, the light range is of little influence. This seems more a case of using the wrong settings.

Cruise McClarren, a building time of 2 hours for just 4 static lights isn't normal. If you using test game then do the following: Go to prefences in the file menu. Switch off dynamic lighting (since you don't use it) Select quick light mapping, NEVER use full light mapping. Full lught mapping increases the time it takes to load the test game, sometimes with hours..... Now select No Shader Effects. Also it's best to avoid using Automatic Floor, make sure you add your own floor as needed.

If you use build game then do this: Go to the Textures tab and make sure is soft light mapping is on and dynamic lights are switched off and no shader effects is selected in the Build Settings tab. Do not use shaders, dynamic lights (since you have none in your level) and never use full shadow lightmas. Full shadow lightmaps does increase the build time and doesn't add anything to your game at all.

Quote: "you can right click the light and change the distance as well i recommend no more than 75 for range."


No more then 75 for range? Then your lights simply look terible. I never go under 85 range, since under 85 you get the terrible looking half lighted segments and diagonal shadows on the floor instead of smooth rounded ones.

I'm working on a level at the moment. There are about 60 lights in it. The light range ranges from 85 to 225. The level takes about 5.40 minutes to load.

Followed RF's advice just for testing purposes. First test did load in 3.40 minutes, but the level wasn't lighted enough.

To get the level lighted close to the original set up I needed to place over 150 lights. but still it didn't look as nice as before. The level took 5 minutes to load, but still it didn't look as nice as my original setup.

So in the end placing 75 range lights gained me about 50 secs loading time, but made my level look terrible (but I knew that before, since I never go under 85 light range). So I'll stick with a bit larger light range and have good looking well lighted levels.

I'm going to bring my lights down to 85 - 150 light range, to see the effect of that. Let you know later.

Imo 75 light range is a very bad idea, then you suffer way to much quality.

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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 11:29
Lightmaps are really unstable, they work now, they don't work in the next time, but in the next attempet they might work again or not.

Really unstable, but 1 thing is for shure, they do look great (with full lightmap).

But here are some small infos:
- The bigger the range of the light, the longer it will take to "build" (generate the new texture).
- If 1 light "touches" several segments/static entities it will take longer to "build".

I suggest you use small ranges for each static light, they look better and are quicker whn you build your game.

Try to not intersect 2 static lights when with full lightmap, that creates a big unstability and it might crash during the build of your level (like i said, it creates a big unstability, it doesn't mean it doesn't work, it will work, but, it has a bigger cahse of crashing).

Well, thats everything i have to say... good luck.

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 11:54
Light maps are unstable? Soft Lightmaps aren't unstable at all, full lightmapping / Full shadow lightmaps are causing the problem and really don't look that much better, I do think they look worse, they look to 'hard'. At any rate the increased building time just isn't worth it a t all. My levels using soft shadows / qiuck light mapping always build / test in less the 6 minutes, but with full light mapping / Full shadow Lightmaps they take over half an hour for a level. That simply isn't worth it at all, bad idea.

Quote: "Try to not intersect 2 static lights "

That's a good advice, it increases building time, I've just discovered that.

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FredP
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 12:19
I have to say that I have gotten some really good results with full lightmapping static lights...but it hasn't been easy and it's something that I usually don't try until I near completion of a level to test it or wshen building a level because it takes so long.
And full static lightmapping does tend to result in hard shadows like Ben said.
At this point the best bet is to use soft lightmapping.
Hopefully TGC will implement something like DarkLights into FPSC.

Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 15:16
Well, I've tested most of the day by now, here's my final verdict

[1] Light Range for me 85 - 175 works best. Beyond 175 you will start to notice a increase in loading time, going below 85 doesn't really influence the loading time at all.

[2] For me having one larger light in a room works faster then having a lot of smaller ones. The size of the light in a room depends on the number of wall-segments it touches. Preferable non, but no more then 2 walls.

[3] Avoid intersecting lights.

By doing this my previously mentioned level loaded in 5 minutes. With larger light ranges the loading time went up with 40 seconds or even more. Using all smaller light ranges to light the level resulted in the same loading time, yet lighting a room with a bit larger light gives a better result then if you use a number of small ones, imo.

But, by doing all of this numerous times, I noticed that the loading of entities took longer then creating the light maps (yes I've got a good number entities, but didn't overdo it) so I think the real gain would be if Lee would be able to speed up the entity loading somehow. But I recall others having noticed that the time to load a level with 1.0X has increased a lot compare to V1.0.

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Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 22:25
So I assume that when being used in a room, that the green(or red in this case) circle should be away from all four walls? I tried to decrease the number of lights in the game down to 32 and used the 75 as a light range. Now it don't take too long to build, which is good, but I still can't seem to get my frame rate over 4 (maybe 5). For the record my computer has:
3 ghz processor,1gig RAM, 137 gig HD and the Radeon 9200 series grafics card housing 128 meg of video ram. I have only one enemy spawned at the beginning of the game, the other 10 are done through trigger zones. I thought it was the lighting, but now I'm not so sure. Is there other ways to increase frame rate? (comp refresh rate is at 75 Hz)

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th Dec 2006 23:47
Quote: "So I assume that when being used in a room, that the green(or red in this case) circle should be away from all four walls? "


At least from 2 of the walls.


Quote: "3 ghz processor,1gig RAM, 137 gig HD and the Radeon 9200 series grafics card housing 128 meg of video ram."


You've got a major bottle-neck in your setup. 3gHz processor is excellent, 1 Gb is good, 137Gb HD is fine, but putting a Radeon 9200 in such a system is a bad idea. That one is slow and outdated, for running FPSC you should have at least a Radeon 9600 with at least 128Mb. Your gfx card may well cause the slow framerates.

Quote: "Is there other ways to increase frame rate?"


Many ways, search the boards, read the tips, it's been discussed 100's of times.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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Cruise McClarren
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Posted: 15th Dec 2006 00:41
what would be a good graphics card that isn't too expensive (I know that's probably not possible lol)

LIFE: "That thing that happens to us when we are too young to die"
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