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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Why oh why is this board run by a dictating crew?

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EdzUp
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 23:39
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rich: maybe a FAQ page with links to all the demos, pointing out that for comparison reasons people should download the demos as posts will be deleted.

On the other forums if anyone asks about a specific language which I have used I will point out the pluses and minuses and advise them to get the demos of both products to test. After all its thier mind if they cant make it up with demos then god help em

-EdzUp
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 12:08
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The difference between Blitz and DBPRO is like this:

DB PRO
Load object "bla.x", number
Blitz
variable = loadmesh(bla.x)

db pro:
position object number ,x,y,z
blitz
positionentity variable,x,y,z

(not too much difference so far right?)
but then if you want it to do a walking animation it's like:
DBPRO
loop object number, startframe,endframe
(now I got that right away --it's very intuitive)
Blitz
UM.... I still cant frigging figure it out...
first you had to say
variable = loadanimmesh(bla.x)
then there are all these freaky animation commands and initially I can't seem to figure out how the hell they work. It seems like they really want you to use MD2 models, but maybe I don't want to use a quake 2 model editor...

blitz:
buffer = setbackbuffer (or something like that)

dbpro: I think it does that for you...

updateworld
renderworld

dbpro:
sync

and in db pro if you want a max of 30 frames a second you just say
sync rate 30 whereas in db there's a whole "tween" thing to lock in a frame rate which is nicer in a way, but a little harder to figure out.

All in all it just seems like DB Pro is easier for me to figure out. I mean what's the blitz equivalent of
Loop object number, startframe,endframe
and why can't it be that easy?

I haven't tried the 3rd party editor yet but in Blitz you can't even right-click to cut & paste, and when you do paste in their editor it's buggy at least in the demo version.

For me the only advantage to blitz is it seems to work on my machine, wheras patch 4 just plain doesn't.

But clearly I need to learn more about the other to make a more intelligent comparison.

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Kale
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 15:51
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I am now no longer developing anything with DBPro due to the poor service (bug fixing) from the DB Team. Being 'pro-comparison' on forums i asked in other languages forums about pros and cons of each (Blitz etc..) it was only in PureBasics forum the lead developer and community gave an example and said if you can find better then choose another!!! i did not find better! all development is now done in PureBasic. Full 3D support is coming in a FREE upgrade soon.

GoodBye and good riddance!

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 15:57
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It's been "coming soon" for a while now. Good luck writing 3D games without any 3D support whatsoever.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 23:05
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PureBasic is a fantastic little programming languages... there are alot of features in that i love.
unfortunately it can't handle floats properly right now - which is particially why i don't use it much, but more over its a pig to use i find C easier to read and understand that PureBasic code.
However the 3D Support and such doesn't really matter with it because it is capable of using APi libraries, and compile on AmigaOS/Linux/Windows operating system, create its own DLLs, etc...

i mean technically on paper it is a far superior language to DarkBasic Professional - however its alot younger and being developed by a less experienced team (well programmer).
in a years time i reckon that once most of the major bugs are out of both DBpro and PureBasic i'd keep an eye on the competition between the two because they've both got more power behind them than you originally realise.
But they're BOTH riddled with bugs still ... so i'd be careful

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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malcom2073
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Posted: 1st May 2003 00:45
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I agree with the links in the readme or whatnot idea. Therfore people can easily download and make their own comparisons without having to resort to coming to forums which for the most part are devoid of help when it comes to deciding something like which language to use if not other things as well. As for what rich said about if a few people are lost oh well... that sounds like a very microsoftian point of view to me. Sure it works for profit, because the masses follow that, but I dont see this forum being of much help for much longer if that keeps up. What ever happened to GuySavore(sp) anyway?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st May 2003 03:29
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If you have to use DirectX on an API level anyway, why arse around with Purebasic, just go straight for C++. If you really care less that it compiles on an Amiga (etc) then I could see the interest, but only just.

Malc - you agree with me that the forum isn't exactly the best place to get un-biased views but then say it's "Microsoftian" to have this policy - make your mind up! What on earth this has to do with profit or the usefulness of a programming forum is well beyond me. I don't think you actually understood what I said at all.

You'll find Guys on the realgametools.net site.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 04:10
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you should checkout PureBasic Rich, its not a case that you have to use DirectX ... its more a case of you can choose to use it.
my point of not using it is because quite frankly i prefer coding in C/C++ as its a much more straight forward language. But you can made .lib's for purebasic allowing people to use these APi's in the same way that DarkBasic does through psudonims and presetup instances etc...

it is beyond a doubt a truely remarkable basic language, but it is still pretty buggy and just not nice to program with.
only thing that got me into it in the first place is the inline ASM you can do - was easier than setting up the same stuff within C at the time. But was just a novelty really.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Puffy
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Posted: 1st May 2003 05:26
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O_O I LOVE PUREBASIC... =P

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st May 2003 07:44
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Would that explain why you've not been modding much (if at all) recently Puff?

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Puffy
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Posted: 1st May 2003 08:33
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Oh I have been modding... O_O all the flamebaits are my doing... and the locked posts... plus I deleted a couple a few days ago... (I had a big test load last month... this month is the pathetic STAR testing and GSE... o_O I finished the CASEE)... My class is the first one who has to take all these gay tests... tomarrow its a 2 hour math test...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 12:36
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lol... oooh is the big mean Admin picking on your puffy

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 1st May 2003 19:54
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Darth Puff! I just realized how funny that name is! You should do well on the gay tests! Sorry just cracking myself up over here...

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st May 2003 20:47
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That's "poof", not "puff".

You don't perform a "gay" act when you puff out a candle do you?

(ok ok, don't answer that one anyone)

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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simonuk74
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Posted: 1st May 2003 22:32
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I know its prolly not the place to post, but I read that Raven was talking about the amiga, with basically mac chip set in it.
I used to have an amiga, and I coded in AMOS, remember that ? lol, and for how they operated, they were the best thing ever, with all its multi-tasking capabilities ( which, by the way, until hyperthreading was available on P4, the Pc couldn`t `truley` handle, like the amiga did, all those years ago! )
ok, down to question, ( as I said, prolly not the place... but anyway )

does anybody know if there is `really` a new amiga in developement? as if there is, it will be one to watch ( if the user base can be obtained )

As Raven said, the Mac can run rings around the equivalent pc ( not that I`ve ever used one ! lol )
So, a new Amiga, possible IBM compatiable, ? would be welcome in my house, just that, does anybody know if any of the rumors are true?

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lcfcfan
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Posted: 1st May 2003 23:35
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F****n hell there are some long posts here!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 23:43
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the Amiga Alpha has been in development for almost 5years now, and i don't think anyone is waited with baited breath anymore.
Problem is that Amiga Inc is poor ... and when i say poor i mean my bank balance is bigger than thiers
It's kinda hard to go in head first in development especially when if you think about it nVidia have recently spent $420million on producing the GeForceFX/QuadroFX ... sure they'll get that back in revenue - however unfortunately banks don't generally give out that kinda cash.

also you'll find that the Macintosh adopted the Amiga's chipset not the other way around, mostly because of thier ties with Motorola who were the main developers of the 68K CPUs and PowerPC FPUs
and you can still buy Amiga's which clock to upto similar speed as earli Pentium3 machines
if you wonder about compatibility this is solved thanks to AmigaOS which can operate AmigaOS, MacOS, Unix, Solaris & Windows Environments (all at the same time if nessary) - was the worlds first true multiple environment OS.
works a treat too, because you can run almost anything within an Amiga using AmigaOS XL (Workbench 4.1) ... and come the end of the year we'll see AmigaOS Duality (Workbench 5.0) which is certainly as impressive as hell with DevC builtin using thier own developer so you can update, but even more importantly i'll be able to utilise WindowsXP/.Net Driver sets and include .Net Framework as part of the OS as well as DirectX & OpenGL

personally can't wait for it, cause they're making some true landmarks - just a pitty they don't have the hardware base to make it worthwhile, but as the support will now be 100% for Windows it maybe sold as a standard IBM compatible OS now

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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simonuk74
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 03:07
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cheers for the info raven

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Kale
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 03:35
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>By Rich:
>It's been "coming soon" for a while now. (3D Support)

Actually it was anounced and a few sample commands where added on 5/1/2003 (4 months ago) http://www.purebasic.com/news.php3 Fred says full working native 3D support will be in a month or two and debugged by summer. In fact i'm on the 3D beta testing team.

>If you have to use DirectX on an API level anyway, why arse around with Purebasic, just go straight for C++.

With Purebasic you have the option of DirectX, OpenGL or native Ogre (http://ogre.sourceforge.net/) support, which in itself can use both API's.

>By Raven
>PureBasic is a fantastic little programming languages...
>there are alot of features in that i love.
>unfortunately it can't handle floats properly right now

This has been fixed for next version: http://purebasic.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5642 & http://purebasic.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5668 Doubles are planned for next major version too as a compiler rewrite is neccesary.

>i mean technically on paper it is a far superior language to DarkBasic Professional

Yep, and far far faster!

>however its alot younger and being developed by a less experienced team (well programmer).

Nope, there is a team, four are working on the code right now (Fred, Richard, Danilo, Berikco). Also the first patch for PureBasic was released on 9/9/2000 http://www.purebasic.com/news.php3, development started long before that! And you say that its developed by a less experienced team? Does Lee develop DarkBasic in 100% hand optimised ASM?.... No i think no. I realise Lee is a fantastic programmer, but believe me Fred's code has go to be seen to be believed. Its so optimised all the libraries file sizes added together only come to 1.3Mb! and the .exe sizes are unbelivable!

>i reckon that once most of the major bugs are out of both
>DBpro and PureBasic i'd keep an eye on the competition
>between the two because they've both got more power
>behind them than you originally realise.

>...but it is still pretty buggy... (PB)

I'd like to see you find a bug in Purebasic! On the off chance you do, you can be sure it will be fixed in a few days!
There are no major bugs in Purebasic, only a few little ones (well there were...): http://purebasic.myforums.net/viewforum.php?f=4 and these usually are fixed in a few days of being found, Fred always posts when he fixes a bug and if you can't wait until the next patch you may email him and he'll sent you the new library personally or you can get from here http://www.purebasic.com/update/

DBPro has a very threatening competitor here! and unless the DB team get on this fast they will suffer greatly.

Great features, Great support, Unbelievably fast, Unbelievably cheap! decide for yourself: http://www.purebasic.com/useropinions.php3 & http://www.purebasic.com/download.php3

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:46
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i don't check the site much, but last time i used it about 2months ago it was still in a relatively buggy form .. most of the commands it has are very uneasing.

personally i prefer DarkBasic Pro (and i may be hung for this) but because it is as close to C as you can get with a Basic language.
i mean BlitzBasic is very C like in its coding, but to be quite honest it's tring to be Basic and C at the same time and thats what puts me off that... DarkBasic has its own uniqué style which actually puts a simpler twist on development.

PureBasic reminds me too much of qBasic with some bells and whistles, and to be honest is very icky to use, in my opinion anyways. My brother also isn't a huge fan of it, he likes its technical abilities - but doesn't like the language itself.

can admire it for being quality ... unfortunately that about the only reason i like it - when it comes down the the wire, to me there is no point in power if you dont know howto use it.
it's like buying a gun, whats the point in having it around if you don't know howto take the safety off or load&cock it?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Darkheart
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:46 Edited at: 2nd May 2003 14:54
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The main reason to prevent open discussion of other products is to keep people from being aware of the other products at all. The broad trend amongst users is moving away from Darkbasic Pro and to other languages typically either Blitz3D or Purebasic but sometimes others too. I've seen many users coming to the B3D or PB community from Darkbasic Pro, I've never seen anyone come from those communities to DBP.

Darkbasic Pro is mostly bought by people before they find out about or really experiement in a determined way with other packages as many disaffected DBP users do. In the same way directly complaining about Darkbasic Pro or DBS is not allowed, otherwise potential customers might be pushed away to look for something else.

The other problem with having real debates is it would destablise the determined marketing effort made by DBS. Most other products do not have as good marketing as Darkbasic does which means much of the functionality and benefits are not as apparent to the outside world. If there were detailed debates these would start to come out.

However this is not a democratic place, it is a semi-benevolent dictatorship and if you don't like it you are not obliged to stay.

The Blitz board allows detailed debates, even hostile ones as long as they do not degenerate into bickering because in general these serve to advance Blitz rather than detract from it.

examples here:
http://www.blitzbasic.com/bbs/posts.php?topic=19582
http://www.blitzbasic.com/bbs/posts.php?topic=20202
http://www.blitzbasic.com/bbs/posts.php?topic=14328

Another observation from polls in both communities is that the average age of users of DBP is, in general lower than those of other products which maybe makes these forums more flammable in general.

As for Updateworld/Renderworld/Flip vs Sync, this is a typical example of how the two products are different, the Blitz approach is all about giving you control while Darkbasic Pro is mostly centred on simplicity/accessability.

By being able to control wether the world is updated seperately from when it's rendered and then again from when it's put onto the screen you can do many different things, like rendering from multiple cameras and then compositing or updating game logic sperately from rendering which you can't do if you have just one command which does them all together. It is however much simpler to just use an all-in-one command to do all these things.

Zombified: the Blitz equivielent to animate an object is:

Walk=ExtractAnimSeq( animated_entity,first_frame,last_frame[,anim_seq] )

then

Animate (ENTITY,WALK)

The best way to keep people from discovering something is for them to be unaware there is anything to find, this seems to be working so far as new users still come so it seems unlikely to change.

Darkheart

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:59
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Darkheart "In the same way directly complaining about Darkbasic Pro or DBS is not allowed"

That's utter rubbish. I can show you plenty of examples of threads where people very directly complain about DBPro! We do not lock or delete threads that do this. You are wrong.

"I've never seen anyone come from those communities to DBP."

I have. The difference is, you're not looking for them.

"However this is not a democratic place, it is a semi-benevolent dictatorship and if you don't like it you are not obliged to stay."

This too is borderline bullshit. Give some weight to your claims please.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:35
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Darkheart how long exactly have you been in this community?
It's true ALOT of users leave DarkBasic to goto other languages, but they never really leave DarkBasic as in to pack it away and never use it again. Even more over most of these users are very vocal about leaving the language with big rants and other grandure crap, because were you there when the Blitz community had people saying they were sick of Blitz and off to DB - the whole forum turned into a bloody war zone, and infact was a good majority of why the No VS posts was supported over at RGT. Becuase it served noone to have either products bashed.

as for not complaining about DBS or DarkBasic Pro... if you can name me a user on this board who hasn't bitched about DBpro at some point or another - and had thier threads locked or deleted, then go ahead.
i mean christ even Alucard/Shadow Robert/god knows what else was allowed a free run on this board and he SERIOUSLY hated DB.

if this board also was even a semi-dictactorship then please explain how come i'm not banned yet? if i can go 6months without being banned from a forum i'd say its a pretty open and free speaking place (^_^)

at the end of the day users who come to DB from other languages know what'll happen if they say they prefer DB over whatever else, it is never pretty - the attitude around here when people say they're off to other language is "They'll be back" because you are... people sit there and spout about how much they hate DB and everything, and somehow they always come back to the language and try to act as if nothing happened.
anyone know DBGuy, or BB3DGuy - same guy he's a jittery lil fella who seems to bounce between the two depending on his mood, and if you don't agree with him based on his name which is better he'll go off on you like some rabid hamster (don't ask me why, i think he's just a weirdo) but the point is that generally alot of people are like this.

i don't think there are any PURE DarkBasic only users, most users here use atleast 1 other language - however those who use it seem to never put it away, you'll always open it once in a while and tinker.
god knows what it is about the language but its like that friend your always falling out with - can be for the stupidest of things, but you know at the end of the day when those friends you like cause they seem cool - that one friend your always falling out with will be the one that is there in 10-20years still pissing you off and your having a laugh with, and you won't even remember the names of the other mates you had way back when.

as i've said about purebasic - it might be a technically better language as Blitz was to DarkBasic Standard/Enhanced ... but at the end of the day its down to personal preferance and i prefer DarkBasic Professional.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:39
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I was going to make fun of the title, but I've got no-one to write the message for me.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Darkheart
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 16:51 Edited at: 2nd May 2003 16:52
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This board is run by DBS according to their rules, DBS is a semi-benevolent dicatorship because it is run by a company who's primary purpose is to make money. They do not need to consult the userbase before they do something, they can make arbitary descions. Indeed it does not matter what the users do they cannot force DBS to change anything they do.

Somewhere down the list of DBS priorities will be keeping the users happy and doing things for them, this is the benevolent bit. These are obviously secondary to other goals and follow business considerations first.

If you say there are people migrating into DBP from B3D or PB then ok, but I've never seen a post written by such a person on any board or chatted with anyone who ever expressed such a view.

I have never seen a post where someone said they were sick of Blitz and moving to Darkbasic or Pro, however if you can find one please provide a link. I think in some of the links I already put up there were people who moved the other way but there are many similar posts in many other forums. I did however read a post only a week ago where someone announced they were leaving DBP after the editor ate 2500 lines of their source code.

I think this board is slightly more liberal than the RGT forums which always seem very intolerant, it still seems like they are afriad of something if they won't just let people speak freely. Obviously that means slightly more work moderating those threads that get out of hand which some always will do but it would lift the mood around here which is obviously present from the amount of replies on this very topic.

Darkheart

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 17:42
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If that is how you term a dictorship [sic] then it applies to any forum that operates a moderation policy. They will always, firstmost and foremost put themselves first and the views of the user second.

"If you say there are people migrating into DBP from B3D or PB then ok, but I've never seen a post written by such a person on any board or chatted with anyone who ever expressed such a view."

Why would you though? Do you read every post that appears here and on RGT? I doubt it, I have to moderate the place and even I can't read them all due to the volume. As for numbers of people moving from A to B, of course it's going to appear there are more leaving DB for A.N.Other; there are far more here in the first place.

"it still seems like they are afriad of something if they won't just let people speak freely"

We have no issues with people speaking freely about our products, they do it all the time. If you can't accept my reasons for not wanting to allow a million and one DB vs. X threads then so be it. That isn't "being afraid", quite frankly it's being sensible. If you think there is something to be gained for a company by allowing their site to be host to disinformation and slagginging of another product by its users then that's your opinion, I don't however agree with it and quite frankly I think it's irresponsible to operate like this. If that's how you need to get sales, go ahead.

As for "lifting the mood around here" this is one small thread in the middle of a very active board, but then judging by your viewing history you haven't looked at much else to know this.

Maybe it's time to exercise my "absolute power" (the true meaning of dictatorship) and lock this thread. I do feel as if it's going around and around in circles.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 17:47
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I'm not taking sides, and will not intend to either but whether DBPro or Blitz or even Pure, you still pick the language that meets your requirements. Picking a language based on it's feature list is all well and good but if those features are half working, you won't know that until you try it. I chose DB because of, and this has been noted above, it's simplicity. Yeah ok, I've programmed with C++ and Visual Basic for the past seven years and I've found it too much to learn all about OpenGL, DirectX etc etc. I wanted a quick wasy approach for writing games, not writing a whole new API for 3D.

I don't know the size of DBS in terms of developers working on DBPRo but I'm sure that most s/w engineers working on projects of this size will know that it takes time and testing to fix even the simplest bug, especially when they themselves have to know the rudementaries of OpenGL or DirectX.

We all know that DBPro patch 4 is a complete overhaul of the DB compiler, DBS informed us that this was the case when they brought out the patch. I will stick with DBPro no matter what opinions other people may have about the other Dev systems. Sooner or later, DBS will come through, just give the lads a chance

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 21:06
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Rich: Thanks for the lesson in "Poof" vs "Puff" --Sorry for my ignorance of Brit-vernacular. Learn something new every day.

Still Darth Poof would be a helluva funny name! Picture like a light sabre, some stylish pastel pants, tank top, leather biker hat...

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APEXnow
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... singing Y.M.C.A

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 21:12
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...In fact I think this whole thread was really just to help me with Brit slang. Imagine the embarassing situations I may avoid in the future!

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APEXnow
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Detracting from the thread subject but careful if a Brit offers you a cigarette LOL, know what I mean...

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 22:13
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LMHO! I'm gonna go poof..er I mean puff on a fag...

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 23:00
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I'm staying well away then...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 00:45
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ya know i don't know many peeps who still call ciggies, fags ... but atleast i prefer the two things its associated with in english rather than american.

ya know i was banned from an online chat community because i was talking to a mate about the recipe my mom has for faggots, and everyone though i was being some freakin' homobasher - but i mean she has this awesome recipe for them with all kinds of spices
taste amazing ... personally i hate that kinda ignorance, i mean its one thing if i was shouting f**k - but i wasn't, and even after i explained they went off saying "oh well you still can't talk about that here, because this is an american chatroom" - to which my reply was "isn't Blaxxun AG who support and are liable for the server german not american" - my password quickly became invalid, but truely is annoying when that happens.

i mean for gods sake its one thing to not like me using the word and explain to me why - rahter than yelling your head off that the word is offensive to everyone ... i mean for gods sake America isn't the be all and end all of the english language, no matter what they all seem to wanna believe

now i'm mad and i'm actually hungry - not had any faggots for a good years ... and you can have your giggle if you want at that, but there ain't much funny about a meatloaf is there, which is essentially all a faggot is.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 01:25
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I never knew that about Meatloaf! I always thought he was a straight guy! Ok I'm done with the ramble.

MrAtoad: You should stay well away cause second hand smoke kills! hehh ok now I'm really done...

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indi
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IF it was dictatorship u wouldnt have the right to express this.

your product would be confiscated and you would be banned, You would also never see the light of day.


why dont u pull your head out of that dark region and elevate yourself to a more respectable level.


Dont you love this pathetic Diatribe. I dont.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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grandpa
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 14:19 Edited at: 3rd May 2003 14:19
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Rich said "It's been "coming soon" for a while now. Good luck writing 3D games without any 3D support whatsoever."

thats rich from a DPbro point of view. Hows advanced terrain coming rich? patch 5? or 3d format support? patch 5 ? or 6?
how about the promised DX9 support? LOL tried the dbpro demo recently? Hahahaha

its only been 8 months since beta 3 went gold.

I don`t think the Rude response from DBpro on the forums (in the form of Rich) attracts any new customers either. (in fact I`ve seen people ask about buying DBpro and get sworn at by him, hardly a good sales pitch, or in line with forum rules.)

DBpro can be gauged by its poor sales, with little over 1000 copies sold.

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 15:13 Edited at: 3rd May 2003 15:17
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Pipe down grandpa! go smoke a pipe!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, its a funny thing, i came across the exact same thing happen on another product (i forgot wats the name.. bl*tz or sumthing) and i saw not only users sworn at the sh*tless product (i think they only sold less than 10 copies worldwide since they launch it), they even burn down the entire shop! damn ... and i ain't starting on their unprofitable sales pitch, not to mention their mutha-f***up forums. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that would be quite a reply, ain't it?

Wat i'm trying to say is, this thread started out good, then it turns sour, then it change topic, now when everything's chill, somebody had to come along and light a fire, let alone attacking in the form of killing the product. Well ladies & gentlemen, (as mention by alot of us in Page 1) this is one of those few ppl who wanna perform yoga flame on a healthy adult discussion.

Now would that answer any more questions on why there shouldn't be a "DB vs XXX" topic, and why these Mods need to lock 'em? It can kill both products, simple as that.

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 15:43 Edited at: 3rd May 2003 15:44
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Quote: "thats rich from a DPbro point of view. Hows advanced terrain coming rich? patch 5? or 3d format support? patch 5 ? or 6?
how about the promised DX9 support? LOL tried the dbpro demo recently? Hahahaha"


How ironic - that's coming from an anti-db supporter. Everyone has bias views but come on, Patch 4 was released just a month ago and you want both patches 5 and 6 in the same week a month later? Sure, just don't expect anything to have changed except the version number. I agree with Solidz Snake, "Pipe down pops!"

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 16:22
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oh yeah zombie ... he hangs out with country women half his age just to fool ya'll - you know he's really an Elton John fan
i'm not sure whether to be proud or worried about growing up in the same town as Elton did hehee

ya know maybe thats what turned him, he probably went into an american resturant, ordered a faggot and one came over - never went back hehee

however from what i've seen and heard Patch5 is actually making alot more progress than you'd think - even after taking those 2weeks out to play and reveiw all of the competition games.
i mean i've gotta agree about the fact that DBS have said they'll do things and then we don't see them (DBO in patch4 for example), when they're simply using a standard FVF - not saying thats bad ... but its hardly thier own format which was why we've lost everything except DirectX loading.

on the skin of it though, DBS is like everyother company - they're trying to accomidate everyone's requests whilst fitting to thier own schedual, but no one wants to wait for proper beta testing and so each patch is released before they've properly implimented things and tested... so anyone who bitchs about the patchs and then bitchs about how long it takes to release them gotta learn you can't have you cake and eat it to!

you either get a fully working patch, or you get one ontime ... debugging and recoding isn't simple and if any of you are even half the programmers you think you are then you should already know that debugging isn't a simple case of problem-recode=solution, becuase first you have to figure out what is causing it, why it is causing it, and then try several ways to fixx it + testing it extensively.

if you don't like how DBS work, then make your own 3d programming engine ... i can assure you it isn't as simple and you think it is, especially as i've not seen any complete DBpro projects from any of you who bitch!
as far as i'm conserned i don't think anyone here really has much of a right to bitch about how DBpro is comming along, possibly with the exception of the likes of Kangeroo2 who is actually doing a professional product and does have a publisher for it...

and you know what, i've never heard him once bitch about how long patchs are taking or about the bugs - because he's more like "oh theres a bug, guess i've got a long nite ahead of me", and if any of you actually want to blasted well wanna learn to program for anything more than yourself or mates - perhaps take it to the next level then you better learn know and learn well that programming languages arn't bugless and they're not always patched to fixx these bugs.
Get over yourselves, quite frankly either your here to use DarkBasic or DarkBasic Professional - if you just want to bad mouth it all the time then you know where the other languages are.


And gentlemen there is a difference between, talking about problems with a product and just bitching about how bad it is... as a language is just a tool at the end of the day and its a poor workman who blames his tools for all of his problems.

So what is Pro doesn't have the 6million features you want, i think due to the dedication of users like IanM, TAToad, RobK, GuyS, Hubdule, etc... we're seeing more and more upgrades for this language which improve it beyond what the creators have originally intended its use.
Slowly but slowly alot of the elder users are transforming DBpro from a simple basic engine to a language with the depth and use of that of other more professional languages, and if they had your attitudes then the DarkBasic world would be a hell of alot smaller - the only thing stopping you from taking advantage of what Pro has to truely offer is your small mindedness, and i can tell you this for nowt ... there is no such thing as a small minded programmer

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 16:48
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Amen.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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APEXnow
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 17:22 Edited at: 3rd May 2003 17:23
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Raven, my thoughts exactly, see my last post above 2nd May 2003 2:47 pm .... Just got to giv'em a chance

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 17:34
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Yeah, I've noticed a lot of VB users coming over to DB/DBPro, myself included.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Kentaree
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 18:09
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Whats ironic is that this thread is essentially turned out to be a VS thread by itself. Pro DB/Pro VS Anti DB/Pro. Now seeing that this thread has been allowed to continue so long, and that nobody has been executed or tortured for voicing his/her opinion, it kinda confirms that there's definitely no dictatorship here . Nor is there any kind of weapons of mass destruction or any hiding leaders of the fallen Iraqi regime, honest!

Whatever I did I didn't do it!
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Puffy
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 23:29
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o_O This board is anti VS threads... if a thread turns into a VS thread I'm likely to just mark it as flamebait... BUT If it actually says X Vs X in the name then its going bye bye because people will look and say "NO X is better than X..." o_O The whole Vs threads are just a way to make everyone angry... (my opinions not Rich or other Mods)...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th May 2003 15:52
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grandpa "I don`t think the Rude response from DBpro on the forums (in the form of Rich) attracts any new customers either. (in fact I`ve seen people ask about buying DBpro and get sworn at by him, hardly a good sales pitch, or in line with forum rules.)"

Show me one example.
If you can.

"DBpro can be gauged by its poor sales, with little over 1000 copies sold."

LOL. Now that's just the icing on this crap cake excuse for a post. I know, let's all throw around some random sales figures for various products, maybe one of us will come close.

Certainly wasn't "grandpa" though.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Dave J
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:12
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Yeah, Rich swear? Never!

What kind of sales figures do you guys get anyway? I'm not trying to steal market research information or anything, just interested... lol

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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grandpa
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Posted: 25th May 2003 14:10
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LOL. Now that's just the icing on this crap cake excuse for a post. I know, let's all throw around some random sales figures for various products, maybe one of us will come close.

Thats funny, cause it was Lee bamber who told me that. Maybe you should talk with him, and keep your poor excuse for community managment off the boards..

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 25th May 2003 15:04 Edited at: 25th May 2003 15:08
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Hey everyone, Lee told him the secret of a lifetime!! Now grandpa is the Man of the House tonite ya'all!! (idiot fella..)

Lots of us here actually work together with Lee, from the development team, to the forum moderators, to the ones who actually had classes with him.

But heeeeeeeeey, u're the Man here, and we're gonna to keep our poor excuse for the community 'managment off' the boards for u!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That is so funny, to hear from some idiot who doesn't know what else to say to defend himself, thus resort to having 'Lee' telling him that. I'm sorry, its just so damn funny!!!

Come on grandpa, surely u can do better than that riiiiiiiiiight?

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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AtomR
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Posted: 25th May 2003 21:35 Edited at: 25th May 2003 21:45
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It's my turn to have a say on this stupid thread

"This board is run by DBS according to their rules, DBS is a semi-benevolent dicatorship because it is run by a company who's primary purpose is to make money. They do not need to consult the userbase before they do something, they can make arbitary descions. Indeed it does not matter what the users do they cannot force DBS to change anything they do."

Of course DBS's primary purpose is to make money. That's the primary purpose of every company. We all work to make money. The difference is some of us get to make money doing something we love. I am so sick of listening to people criticizing musicians, writers, artists and whowever for doing what they do with the intent of making money instead of their love for whatever artform.

"Somewhere down the list of DBS priorities will be keeping the users happy and doing things for them, this is the benevolent bit. These are obviously secondary to other goals and follow business considerations first."

You obviously haven't been around here for too long. If you were here a little over a year ago you'd remember just how much flaming and bitching was going on because of the Darkmatter Enhancement kit. The DBS crew were being called everything and not one post was closed or censured in any way. Ok it wasn't the same forum but it was still the same "dictating crew". And just for the sake of keeping us, users, happy we were offered the multiplayer commands that were originally included in the Darkmatter CD.
When DBPro was first announced, it would require us to pay a small fee for each title we published with it, but DBS reconsidered it (again after a lot of flaming) and now you can sell whatever you want do in DBPro.

"If you say there are people migrating into DBP from B3D or PB then ok, but I've never seen a post written by such a person on any board or chatted with anyone who ever expressed such a view."

So what!!!! How relevant is that? Who cares where people come from as long as they're here. And what kind of authority are you that they'd talk to you about it.

"I have never seen a post where someone said they were sick of Blitz and moving to Darkbasic or Pro, however if you can find one please provide a link. I think in some of the links I already put up there were people who moved the other way but there are many similar posts in many other forums. I did however read a post only a week ago where someone announced they were leaving DBP after the editor ate 2500 lines of their source code."

Nice of you to keep track of that. Just shows how much free time you have on your hands. If that's what you like, you can waste your time looking for people who have left DB/DBPro to someother language. You can even start your own little private group. Just do us all a favour. If you don't like Db, DBPro or its forums them don't post here. Simple as that.

Damn, I had to get this post get to me. Just goes to show how much the rules are necessary. As far as I'm concerned you can close this thread down, Rich. It served it's purpose: none.

just one small thing @Raven. I agree with your point, However....

as far as i'm conserned i don't think anyone here really has much of a right to bitch about how DBpro is comming along, possibly with the exception of the likes of Kangeroo2 who is actually doing a professional product and does have a publisher for it...

This is utter bullshit. Anyone who has bought DB/DBPro has a right to bitch. The fact you're doing a commercial project has no bearing on it. The fact that you paid for DB does. Some of us here are just trying to have fun

Take care
AtomR
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