Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

FPSC Classic Product Chat / SHOWSTOPPER ALERT! ATi and Nivida cards diffrent model results in game.

Author
Message
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 02:52 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 03:02
Link
Lee or anyone who can answer this ?

The problem is when a model is built on an ATi machine sometime the model dont show at all in fpsc on a Nivida machine or as the picture below shows black shapes that are not part of the model.

I know the models fine on an ati machine because I can put model on both...its not a problem the maker on the ati machine can easily correct if its displaying differant on the nivida machine.


Does anyone know the answer why this problem happens?

Please move to bugs if u feel this the wrong section?

Best S4

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Back to top
Profile PM Email
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 02:53 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 03:06
Link
image from a nvidia machine :

Im a wizz at texturing toilets

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 03:03
Link
Yeah this differance between the ATI and Nvidia cards is going to play havok when others play the games. What looks fine to the maker and everyone with an ati card, on occasion( and not all the time) has odd abnormalities for the guys using Nvidia cards.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 06:07
Link
Try using an Intel card...a lot of stuff looks like crap...I don't think it is just ATI-Nvidia though.
I think it is an issue with a lot of cards.

http://www.wembley1967.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 08:47 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 09:00
Link
Well there's problems evident that shouldn't be there. Regardless all games should look the same regardless. I can understand shaders and stuff but models? That makes no sense. But we know it's nvidia's card in specific, cause I walked s4 through rigging a FIRESPOT in a model and on the same computer, something that looks fine in Max appears wrong in FPSC on the same comp. We have thought in the past it was something I was doing, or an export problem, but the amount of testing we've done has show us its FPSC running on a Nvidia machine. No other cards or integrated graphics mother boards have this problem. Between S4 and I, we've got 6 comps.....that kinda narrows it down. Basically though they may want to take a look at this considering their partnering with Nvidia. It's not like this happens all the time either. We've found 3 models out of about 70 or so I've made.(which adds even more to it's mystery) That image S4 showed was made a wile ago and not for our game, but it was made over the year I've been around and was the worst we'd seen. Whatever that is jutting out of it is a worse case scenario.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 11:29 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 11:45
Link
Obvious question, but do you have the latest NVIDIA drivers installed? I haven't seen this at all, I've got 2 ATI machines, and my main workstation has an NVIDA card.

Just a thought, do you perhaps have any leftover multi-subobject material applied in max that is getting exported in the .X file? Or perhaps multiple material ID's assigned to the model?. FPSC ignores the embedded material and gets the texture from the FPE file, but maybe NVIDIA cards have trouble dealing with this scenario. I don't know, this is just a theory. But since I've not seen this with any of the stock media or my own models, I'm just throwing it out there.

One thing I like to do with my own models BEFORE assigning any permanent texture, is open the maxscript listener and type "selection.material=undefined" without the quotes. This removes all material assignments from the model and that way I'm assured of a clean start. Just an old habit of mine, I like to know that I'm starting fresh when I get to the texturing stage.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 13:22
Link
I have this problem too with some animated models exported on my home computer to the ones I work on... Static models are fine no deforms or giant black shapes, but (for example) if I put the Carnivore Wraith onto an Nvidia machine, he turns into a giant pike that can reach across the whole level. I always thought It was a random FPSC thing, but it had Black Tri's very similar to the one in your pic s4.

it could also be a version issue. Are you using V1?

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 14:28 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 14:30
Link
I took a closer look on a better monitor...is that big black triangle the firespot? If so, then try this: unlink the firespot from the biped, apply a "reset x-form" to it, and re-link it to the biped. Oh, and also hide the firespot before exporting (the "official" instructions on the website say not to hide the firespot, but you can and it will work just fine).

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 14:33
Link
@Bond : Yeah I thought it might be the drivers so updated them and still doing the same thing.

@Butters : It does it with all version of fpsc from V1 to V1.04 rc9.

best s4

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 15:18
Link
Bond
Dont think it can be that mate, because my character did it and I was only vertex animated (no biped), so there wasn't a firespot there to get messed up!

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 17:55 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 17:57
Link
Yeah I dont think it's the FIRESPOT either. This abnormality takes place on our newest charaters "Mikes" leg also, but it much less pronounced then whats shown above on that sucubuss. It's been really hard to pin down, other then we know it only occures on a Nividia machine.

Oh and I hide all(but the selected skin mesh) before I export.

Just plain odd huh
Loc
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 20:37
Link
Ok, this is strange, but is the character scaled to 100% in the FPE?

I get all kinds of odd errors on characters that I've scaled to anything other than 100%

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CLiPs
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Jan 2006
Location: California
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 21:32
Link
Ive got several pc's myself 3 with nvidia cards 2 with ati cards and 2 are stock from there boards (laptops) And I have seen these errors before with my work especially if I am building from my ATI side and try viewing it from the other pc with my nvidia card... But this issue cleared up when I went through a format...

Now the only reason I can think as to why this issue has cleared up for me is because when I added my card to that pc it had a previous card in it and I didnt not properly delete the old drivers. Like I said when I formated and reinstalled all my drivers everything cleared up so the only obvious thing I can think of is there was some lingering drivers in play with my system.

I will continue to test between my systems and see if I can duplicate this error and see if any information I come up with can help...



Have you downloaded your CLiPs today.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 22:27
Link
Quote: "what is better nvidea or ati?"


Im gonna step in here, and say the errors in models issue is something that looks like it could be solved through some community effort here, this question could take things dangerously off track, I would urge people to post about the issue at hand and not this question!

(not meaning to be harsh max, but the problem we're trying to solve here is something thats been bugging me for ages!)

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 23:20
Link
@Butter,
Not knowing when S4 may chime in, I have to say that the scale is probably 80%(like those from TGC, and the one in my folders), as basically I gave all my models to S4 so we could work together. We dont use that sucubuss model so I'm betting he's never changed it's scale. We'll try this too.

@Clips,
You know that very well could be an issue. I personaly dont have a nvidia card on anything, but soon as I can talk to S4 on AIM I'll alert him to your post. Sounds as if its a logical enough venue to test.

@Mods,
Why don't ya just go ahead an errase those 2 off topic comments so we dont get more guys that have joined after sept 06 chiming in about the complexities of graphic card choices.( I know I didnt make the post, but I bet s4 will be commenting the same thing here very shortly )

@ballwinkle + spike,
Please guys. This is kinda a serious topic, let try and keep this as informative and on track as can be.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 27th Dec 2006 23:40 Edited at: 27th Dec 2006 23:44
Link
Did you try doing a "clean" export from max?

Reset x-forms for the model before rigging or animating, do a low-threshold vertex weld to clean up any stray or duplicate verts, check for multiple material ID's and remove material assignments using the maxscript tip I mentioned earlier. Also, if it's a rigged character make sure all the vertices are assigned to be green "rigid" verts in the physique modifier.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 00:11 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 00:16
Link
Only happens on animated models. Verts are set ridged. Reset x-forms/collapse, is done prior to Physique modifier(on biped characters). Single material id's on offending meshes. Also Bond we have to keep in mind this dose not happen on any integrated graphics or ati card, so is most likely not the problem of the model.

I'm now seriously thing clips post may have alot to do with it. I've yet to talk to s4 and talk him into trying it to test. I'd love to think it's just a problem with the way drivers install over one another, and if so a fix could easily be placed in a readme for games so unsuspecting players could solve this problem. I don't know for sure yet, but I would love for this to be the problem.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 00:20
Link
Ok then, it seems like you're covered there. If you want I would be happy to try and duplicate the problem on my NVIDIA 7900, since I've not seen this problem yet.

If you want to send me the .X file or preferably the max file I'd like to see firsthand what the problem is. My email is mark@hyrumark.com.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 00:32 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 00:33
Link
Quote: "Also Bond we have to keep in mind this dose not happen on any integrated graphics or ati card, so is most likely not the problem of the model"


But does this happen with any stock model? If not than I would beg to differ and say it IS probably a problem with the model. If it pops up from time to time with stock media than you're probably right it's a driver thing. Again I'd love to try and help if you want another machine to test it on. I keep my computer as clean as a whistle, I have a clean install with my NVIDIA card and the latest drivers.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 00:45
Link
@Clips thanks for the info but my machine has had only one card and the one driver from the start apart from updating them to try and fix the issue.

I have three machines 1 with ati and 2 with nvidia cards and both nvidia cards come up with the same issue and the ati card work with no errors.

I also like to add that if i resave the model using magicfps the errors go but the model is then static also loading the model into Lithunwrap and the save the model as x file fixes the issue but u lose the firebone and animation.

best s4

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 00:51
Link
Bond neither of us have actually tested all the fpsc models(because they really didnt fit our needs) so were goin to that. When done I will certainly send you a copy of that Suc, though I'm not sure at the current time where I put that max file(i've reformated in this time and could be on a disk or another comps hd).

We'll let you know soon as we can.
Loc
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 01:03 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 01:04
Link
Ok that's cool, good luck.

Quote: "I also like to add that if i resave the model using magicfps the errors go but the model is then static also loading the model into Lithunwrap and the save the model as x file fixes the issue but u lose the firebone and animation."


Hmm, that's interesting, so static it looks fine? I'm not sure how you would lose the firespot from Lithunwrap, does that somehow delete the single poly that is the firespot? A static character model in FPSC still has the firespot, it just gets ignored because static models can't hold a weapon. And that big black triangle, is it originating from the hand, like the firespot would? It's just kinda hard to see what's going on in that picture, maybe a few screenies from different angles would help. Anyway, good luck in your findings.

S4real, could you post the FPE you're using, or send me the .X file until locrian digs up the max source?

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 01:19
Link
Bond ive emailed you the model now and have tested every stock model and all of them work ok.

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Back to top
Profile PM Email
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 02:20
Link
For those who have been posting about which card is better (and you know who you are because I erased your posts and you have been named) go debate it in the Geek Culture forum.
Heck,there's probably a thread there already about this.
This is an important issue and we need to keep it on topic.

http://www.wembley1967.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 06:52
Link
Well guys I just tried this on my laptop, which has an ATI card, and I get the same problem. So this doesn't look like an ATI vs. NVIDIA issue. I'll try it on my NVIDIA machine when I get home, but I expect the same thing to happen.

The big black triangle moves with the character, are you absolutely sure there wasn't some stray geometry exported along with this character?



----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 08:09 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 11:07
Link
Ok, I found the source of the problem after importing the model into 3ds max. It actually IS a firespot problem after all: there are TWO firespots on this model! One is where it should be, on the hand. The other is located a little further away from the model, near the waist, on the left side of the character just like in my picture above. This has to be causing the problem. It must have got missed at some point when rigging the character, didn't get it's transforms reset, and got exported along with the model.

Also, the model is at an unusual orientation in max, different than any of the stock characters or my own from Model Pack 4, maybe the "left-handed axis" button got unchecked during export.

And I'm a little curious, this really shows up fine on your ATI machines? Because I get identical results on both my ATI and NVIDIA computers.



----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 18:57
Link
JUst last night S4 opened up another model and found a small deal by some legs also. We have to imagine this is another firespot. The only thing I can think of is that its left by the TGC versions when used as size comparisons. BUt I can't see these in MAx. S4 found it with LithUnwrapp.

Not to be a pain in the butt, but do you have any special setting that are ticked off in max that arent default. Cause both S4 and I can't see it here. We only see it in Lith. If you have changed anything you can think of in Max, we'd appreciate it.

It also could be an ati setting. May we ask how you have your cards setting, set up?

For some reason this left over fire spot isnt showing up when I press "h"( like to select by name or what not) or in the view ports. It just don't show up, but the only thing I can think, circa 1970, like a vietnamese lady of the night, my imported Aiko is leaving my boys with a lil prize that were not noticing till it's to late.

Butter is getting a similar deal, so theres something where we probably have set similar, and were missing this. If theres any clues as to Max or Ati settings that you do, that arent default could you please post them.

And why it shows up fine in our machines that are ati and not yours also makes me think its some type of settings issues. I mean something has to be differant.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 22:35 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 23:00
Link
Well I have my ATI control panel settings at default, which I don't change unless I'm taking some "beauty screenshots" because leaving antialiasing on globally really messes up other programs. So no, nothing special on the ATI settings.


Now when importing the biped into max, the only non-default setting I use is shown below. Strangely, unchecking this setting places the bipeds feet squarely on the origin contrary to what you might think. FPSC uses physics to make the feet find the floor, but I found out from one of Lee's builds that this isn't always true, so using these settings will assure that the feet don't sink throught the floor no matter what.


Strange, opening up the "select by name" I saw the extra firespot right away. Also, when I imported the character it looked like this:


All the stock characters and my own characters import the .X file laying flat on their back facing upwards. Any idea why this character uses this orientation?

Opening up schematic view I see this, the firespot that is linked to the hand is the one in the wrong place, near the waist. The other one in the upper left hand corner of schematic view isn't parented to anything, but is right where it should be on the model. Which makes sense because that huge triangle moves with the model.



What I think happened is that the biped was somehow imported twice along the way, and one of the firespots didn't get deleted, not unreasonable since it's practically invisible. Either that or maybe it got shift-cloned, but that doesn't really make sense because it would have a different name then.

Did you find your max source?

Butters uses Maya, so I don't think his is a firespot issue. But I DO think it's a matter of him not freezing transformations, which is the Maya equivalent of reset x-forms in Max. Large or out of control polys are a telltale sign of not resetting tranforms.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 23:18
Link
Um no idea why thats upside down. When ever I convert stuff from x its always like laying on its side...but never upside down. Again this modle works fine in fpsc for me, and did not appear upside down. I have to say that was given to S4 back in sept and I don't even have that model in my currant copy of fpsc. It was just the worst case we could find.

I do always set that tick box to lower feet to point zero.

somethings still very odd about all of this still. Your seeing it upside down...I'm not seeing the extra firespot. There has to be something that I can do to check this that I'm just not getting. Theres got to be something differant or you wouldnt see the model upside down. Just all very odd. I'm still looing for the max file to that.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
bond1
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Dec 2006 23:30 Edited at: 28th Dec 2006 23:32
Link
Is it possible that you sent s4real an early "test" version instead of the final model?

Until you find your actual max file we're kind of just spinning our wheels.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Locrian
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 29th Dec 2006 00:32
Link
Right now s4 is having family difficulties on his wifes side. I don't expect to really hear much from S4 over the next couple days. His job right now is consoling his wife, and to just say so, my heart goes out to you and your family S4 in this time of loss.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 29th Dec 2006 01:08
Link
s4real,
Sorry to hear this.
If there is anything I can do please let me know.
You have my deepest symapthies.

http://www.wembley1967.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
s4real
VIP Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 1st Jan 2007 00:31
Link
Thanks fred and loc


Best s4

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-26 00:57:09
Your offset time is: 2024-11-26 00:57:09