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Dark GDK / When is DGDK going to be fixed? II Edition

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y2ksw
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 17:49
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Sorry I don't like to repeat and pest you people, but I really need the update/fixes/upgrades of the DGDK.

In case it is impossible to do now, I would like to know when this is going to happen, please
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 22:17
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It's all gone very quiet for a while, but I decided to take APEXnow's suggestion and get off Mike's back for a while and trust he's doing the best job possible all the while. I do hope we hear good news soon, though - namely because I want the GDK to be fixed before investing in the .Net version.

I have vague plans for World Domination
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APEXnow
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 00:58
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There is progress being made on this stuff because of the things that have to be done in order for other (so called) things to work when they come to light. Suffice to say, I will talk to Mike during this week to see where we are.

Paul.

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 01:35
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Good man, Paul. Thanks for the help!

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Ashy
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:25
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One of the more important things about upgrades (to me) is that they always seem to re-ignite my interest in game making. After awhile I tend to get bored and lose interest with the projects i'm working on, then an upgrade comes out and I find myself hard at it again.
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 01:30 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 01:30
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@Ashy: I'm like that too, unfortunately. Sadly my time and drive to complete things isn't quite what it used to, so every once in a while I need a new toy to jolt me.

Take an example: I swore to myself that I wouldn't touch DBPro any more, not so much on the account of the language (which is pretty pants ), but because of that hideous debugger. But this weekend I couldn't resist buying Dark AI and Dark Physics (it was 30% off!) - which means that I'll probably be trawling through the ol' DBPro during the next couple of weeks.

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Neglected
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 15:12
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From what I've read through the forums I can see that the fixing won't come any time soon.

It seems that TGC is selling DBPro X10, and Windows Vista is a *requirement* for it.

This talks about a new generation of hardware and software, that will be common in the future, but not for now. And due to the TGC's limited development capacity, I don't think there are going to be more updates to any products for a long time.

It is sad to see that the DGDK and DGDK.net are used under their capabilities.
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fubarpk
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 06:39
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I think we are all awaiting the gdk update what beats the heck out of me is why they release other new versions before much needed upgrades like object transparency etc that was supposed to be the same as DBPRO but it will prob come out for a new visual platform that we will not only need vista but a new c programming interface and we will prob need to re invest in the .net version which means all our code will need converting not to mention the massive ammounts of money we will have to invest just to do some hobby programming.

Dont misunderstand me i love TGC and i appreciate there long life support its up with the best of them. But they realease buggy products and perhaps i am thinking the Beta testers being used on them now are stopping this from happening in the future.

This may be why the updates are taking so long im thinking.

fubar
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 12:21 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 12:22
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I seriously doubt TGC would endanger their livelihood by putting all eggs in the X10 basket. I don't think people will be in that big a rush to move to Vista (I'm not, and I'm pretty geeky!) so I'm sure that the current generation products will need to be maintained (well, at least "supported") for a while.

I am more concerned, however, with the "extensions" business model. Since they probably cannot make a living just selling plain vanilla GDK's and DBPro's, they need new products to sell. That's why we're getting a flow of purchasable items such as Dark AI, Dark Physics, Dark Lights, Dark Shaders etc etc

Now, I've been around enough not to be blue eyed about business considerations, so I fully understand the need for the releases of these "side dishes". But the fact of the matter is I believe that Lee, Mike, Sparky (Paul?) and whomever else must be running around like blue-arsed flies coming up and shipping these things. I fear that, great though these things are, they - and nor X10 - are the ones that are keeping GDK updates from being forthcoming...

I have vague plans for World Domination
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APEXnow
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 12:46
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I won't venture into this topic too deeply because I can only do what I can with what I have. I'm not on a payrol, and all the things I've done (to this point) have been in my own time, given that I have a family and committments etc. But I've not even looked at the X10 wagon, let alone thought about the devepment implications.

I'm waiting for the DGDK libraries to be updated so that DGDK.NET can follow a respectable update also. I'm also working on a new (side dish) to work with DGDK.NET, and there are also plans for other (side dishes) to be done, but as I said, I'm doing what I'm doing right this moment, knowing that it will benefit the future sustainability and support of DGDK.NET.

Paul.

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fubarpk
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 12:47
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Well i disagree if all the effort goes into future development and nothing much towards there older products people will lose confidence in TGC products. Microsoft is a good example it keeps up with the times but half the reason Apples market although wa superior machines is compatability with older products. Thats why even Apples biggest multimedia market is now deap under threat of windows products. Picture this if a company has 10K of software and needs to upgrade 10k worth of machines they may do it. But if the same company has to upgrade its 10k of software as well it may blow it completely out of budget. Many companies in the mutimedia industry here are stopping there Apple purchases and changing to PCs for this reason not to mention the fact they can be upgraded and kept up too date far easier.

I think TGC should invest time and energy into new products but when people have only recently purchased a product that is not functioning as itd meant to and is in danger of being replaced by newer products it makes me wonder how many will lose confidence in there products and i have purchased many of there products. Because of the support but i want to work in a C environment that is easy to use and handles the token passing for you but maybe i will have to change to a faster product and do some real programming that is known by other companies and can go on your resume. Like quake engine etc, The main drawback here is the lack of support but the price is FREE and there are other engines far superior also free and what TGC have to realize if they want people purchasing there C engine they need to kick these award winning free engines in the but. They already give great support and have a great forum but i used to look forward to updates and i have put my projects on hold because i cant get major things working yet because of its version. I would gladly run a beta version even so i could get thes function and even applied and asked for a beta copy. I think if they are going to have beta products we all should be able to use them.

fubar
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APEXnow
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 12:58
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Quote: "and there are other engines far superior also free and what TGC have to realize if they want people purchasing there C engine they need to kick these award winning free engines in the but"


Not to drift this thread off topic, but having played with the likes of WildMagic, CrystalSpace and Ogre, yes, they are extremely capable engines, but the learning curve to achieve what is easily more doable (imo) with DGDK and a few less lines of code, makes for the reason why people are willing to purchase the toolkit for $60 - $100 or so. You'd be hard pressed also to obtain the level of forum activity and general product support from any of the other main engines, than you would with TGC's products. I'm not stipulating a reason or justification for using whoever's products, but my reason for sticking with TGC, is because of the response I have had with working along side the guys, but also because of the attraction that the products have, for their ease of use. Ease of use may be the wrong term for some people, but I suppose it's just down to personal experience with high level languages that makes using the products comforting.

Paul.

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fubarpk
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 13:09
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The EASE of use is why i chose TGC products in the first place, but i was just stating that there are other products if we were not so fussy about support. I have found many forums for allot of different engines in the past and if you stuck with an older one ie quake engine which became the new doom engine thats worth mega there is such an abundance of tutorials and source code. The problem ive found is getting the source code to work. But then many TGC source is for older versions or need plugins to get to work so that works both way.

I have just been waiting along time for an upgrade i beleived was being released months ago so im blowing off steam. I was surprised to not find an update in this months mag and im annoyed with the fact that they are releasing newer versions without fixing the bugs in there older products. But i guess companies are legally allowed to release 4% of bugs in an OS which may mean 4% of every program. Its more like 10 percent for everyday programs so i guess i shouldnt complain.

fubar
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 21:30
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Quote: "I was surprised to not find an update in this months mag"


I must admit this applied to me too... for some reason I had a hunch that there would be news of a classic GDK upgrade or, at the very least, that there would be news of the competitive upgrade to DGDK.Net for classic GDK users.

As for why I stick with TGC, well it is because I really like the forum peeps and vibe.

I've used my fair share of 3D engines in the past (such as Ogre3D and Irrlicht) and I've even coded 2 or 3 myself (one of them for Take 2 Interactive as an employee) that were really flexible but extremely dense. As for the DGDK, as an API, is really easy to grasp and to knock things up with and in my old age I've become a lot more pragmatic so "me likes that very nice".

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Neglected
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 12:24
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If they didn't fix DGDK before the DGDK.net release, why were they going to fix it now?

Everybody seems to love the new DGDK.net with all its limitations, and therefore there is not enough community pressure to enforce TGC to make the fixing.

I'd suggest to the owners who want it updated, that they put their names into a big list and send the requirement altogether to TGC.

I'd put myself into another list of people who would buy it if it were fixed, that could be enclosed too

What else can we do as simple users?
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y2ksw
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 20:24
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I think the .net SDK is based on the C++ SDK, thus both fixes go hand in hand.

Making a list is fine, but even if we would send it as a collective request, I doubt it will help.

I think TGC is not aware of the fact, if they don't fix and don't reply to our request, we are going to look for alternatives, whatever it means. From my side, I would decompile the libraries, make the fixes on my own, and forget from then on it was a TGC software, no matter how upset they would be.

If I had enough time and would not be in the middle of a game development, I would also opt for doing the fixes for them, since I'm convinced it is one of the best game engines available.

However if there would be a chance to get a fixed SDK, in reasonable time, I would prefer that over the named options
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Morcilla
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 11:55
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Not only playing with our money, but with our hopes and dreams.
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the_winch
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 23:03 Edited at: 14th Jan 2007 23:04
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Quote: "I seriously doubt TGC would endanger their livelihood by putting all eggs in the X10 basket."


I think they pretty much have to put all their eggs in some basket. Isn't it just Lee and Mike that do full time development? At least in the past they appear to have focused on one product at a time. I don't think they have enough developers to spread effort around several products.

If they are concentrating on X10 I wouldn't expect anything but small updates to existing products. All their effort will be devoted to X10 products. At least that's the way it has appeared to work in the past.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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