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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] FPSC Model and Media Protection Software: 28kWarning

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Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 04:16
FredP
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 04:29
I'm interested.
Looks like some good stuff.

Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 04:55
It definitely looks interesting... and now, as it seems, FPS Pack is not going to be updated people will be wanting something that can handle the new save/load feature...


Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 05:17
We'll it's already in use in our stuff(As you see, that's a real game, just hadn't switched .ico file at the time). Just not sure how much buzz this would generate to be worth the time. It's one thing for us to do it for our games...another to build a gui that dose it all.

If this ends up with 10 posts, well, at least people know it can be done. To be honest, I was so mad at (a certain person) for releasing a program that converts *cant tell*, I was about to let the cat out of the bag to force someone(TGC or (a certain person)) to protect our media.

Now, I could care less actually how everyone released their stuff, as long as ours was safe. But having this weight off our shoulders allows us to get back to work on the game, and it's media more. I'm sure there's a way to defeat this as well, but it keeps 95% of the people out and slows down the other 5%.....We'll accept 5% as the cost of doing business(figures may actually vary, see geeks for actual participation).
Airslide
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 05:26
I'd definetly be interested in this. I suppose I can do it myself, but this would save a great deal of time

FredP
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 05:48
If people are going to steal something I at least want to make it a pain in the...backside.
On top of that it would make me feel better about using others' media (including TGC's) in my game.
As it is anybody can open the files to any built game and take whatever they want for free.
That's one of the reasons I bought FPSPack in the first place.
I felt it was my responsibility to make some attempt to stop people from stealing media or at least make some attempt at it.
The way I figure it the only people interested in this are going to be the usual ones.The "elite" of the FPSC forums,so to speak.
It is sad that we even have to protect our media but the fact is that people were stealing long before they invented computers.

my life really sucks
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 06:10
This sounds interesting. Very interesting...
tschwarz
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 06:17
Sounds real interesting and I understand peoples concerns about their work being easily taken. Hopefully this will be released so others can better protect their content as well.
Silent Thunder
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 06:35
Cool, looks like a better alternative to fps pack. Dang rastaman, he said that a new update for fps pack would be comming in november.


Get my Mega Segment Pack for free, be one of the first 5 to post
rolfy
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 06:41
Count me in on this one guy's,I've been looking for something like this all along,the fact that your media was so easily accessed is what has been putting me off creating a game in the first place.
I think a lot of people would definately show an interest in this and am in fact left wondering why TGC never came up with something like this themselves to protect the interests of people developing model packs,which they sell.Reading between the lines of what you say Loc I can see I missed something here.
Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 07:06 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 07:08
Nah I edited all that myself man. I didn't wanna give the guys much of a clue as to what I was talking about(though I have let in like Errant, and a couple others) but believe me, in testing I've opened up stuff I'm not supposed to. Though I myself wouldn't use it, because I know how long good media takes to make, many more don't share this view. The test I conducted were to see security, and for the most part in a few clicks I could use Bonds Scientist model, which really upset me. If s4 and myself couldn't see a way to protect media by the time our beta was ready, I was going to force someones hand...not to be a prick...but because it has to be done.

The only thing that concerns us, is all the recent revisions to FPSC though updates. But knowing what we now know, were almost positive with very few modifications we could keep up and have a moderately secure game to distribute. Even if we don't distribute this with a gui, I'm betting dollars to donuts, at least the "elite" as Fred put it, would be turned on to how to do it for their own games. Nothing would be publically released for just anyone though. We wouldnt want it to go the rought of say, PHPBB, or some other open source software, where reverse enginering, makes almost any update futile.

Plus I had to show this off. S4 dose so much work, no one ever gets to see, so I told him "Heck with that man, where makin ya display casue this rocks..I'm tired of people seeing my work and not realizing your works making it go"
FredP
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 07:30
Quote: "Dang rastaman, he said that a new update for fps pack would be comming in november."


He lied.

I for one am surprised that TGC does not have some way to encrypt the FPSC files.
I can understand not having encryption for DBP as that is more of an open and coding type thing and people use a lot fo their own or elsewhere-gotten media...
But FPSC relies heavily on stock media.Since they also charge extra for model packs one would think that they would want to protect their investment.
Maybe they are like me and they figure that if you steal something that cheap you are a/an [place your own insult here] and most people won't do it...
When I first wanted to protect the media in my games it was stictly to keep others' media which I had either paid for or had permission to use from bieng stolen...now I realize it is almost important nobody steal my stuff as well.
Some of it I have given away for free but due to a variety of occurences and cirucmstances I have cut back on giving stuff away and some of it I might never release.
If I want to give something I made away that is fine but if I don't want to give something away to some people then that should be my choice as well.
I have to agree with you...the more people this gets released to the better the chances of someone hacking it up.
It would be much more difficult if they had to hack the game without being in possesion of the app.

tschwarz
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 09:16
If you need some more testing on the security, send me an email.

fpscuser @ gmail.com

Terry
Candle_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 09:57
ummmmmmmmmmmm?


MY FPSC FILES
Silvester
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 12:08
Intresting...

Wich language is it in?and how hard-coded is the encrytption?If its just a Zip packed up in a .exe,everyone can hack it.

...No Signature here...
Toxist
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 12:15
Geez! And I Just Bought the FSP Pack egads !


<img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/LTXsurprise.jpg">
To-xist or not To-xist ? try FPS
Luke314pi
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 12:55
I would definitely be interested in this. My next game will be using almost 100% custom media, and I want to be able to protect it.

Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 16:13
Terry,
That may be a good idea. Your one of the guys S4 and I trust around here. Maybe having you take a shot at it will let us know how far this can be taken, and if it is cracked, what you had to do to do it.

Prince Of Darkness,
You can't unrar/unzip(thats funny,I've seen stuff with no more protect then that and dont get the point) and if I told you the language thats one step closer to cracking it...come on man....think about it, why would I tell you anything that would help you crack the stuff.
Silvester
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 16:29
uhm,i mean like:

In VB,there are MANY examples to do this.

In DBP,its harder due the fact there are less examples.

if you look trough planetSourcecode you will find MANY examples in VB,C# to compress and encrypt.

i didnt meant to hack it,just curiosity.

...No Signature here...
Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 16:48
No offence taken....just not helpin anyone. This won't stop people that know what there doing, and try multiple ways of extraction. But how many guys on this forum "know" what there doing? How many peple in general(not in the coding community)? Nothings 100% safe....but this is resonable, and it allows us to save, which was the big deal with TGC's recent updates to FPSC. Bottom line is S4 is the first documented,with a new encryption method for the save/load. It works. We can release a demo/beta and feel like we did at least as much as any of the big guys to secure the media. I mean I can the textures from Valve games with less work then this. I believe that's as good as can be done....A pad lock only keeps the honest guy honest.
Silvester
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 17:22
The Only thing i hack,is the computer in school i change the registry to gain acces,but then i change everything back again.

...No Signature here...
the_winch
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 19:00
Quote: "I for one am surprised that TGC does not have some way to encrypt the FPSC files."


Decrypting takes too much time. That's why commercial games don't bother with encryption either.
Gamers don't want to sit there while several hundred mb of data gets decrypted, they just want to play a game.

I'd be interested in how fast this one is. Judging by the response to questions it's not secure in the slightest but if it is much faster than fps pack it would still be useful. Any additional protection is obviously worthwhile if it is simple to add to a game and does not harm the gamer experience.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Candle_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:22
I can crack it in two seconds.


MY FPSC FILES
Silvester
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:25
Put it on cd and hit the cd with a hammer?-CRACKED.

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Candle_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:33
Just believe I can.
And i won't say crack , lets just say I can get the files.


MY FPSC FILES
Silvester
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:35
well,actualy...yes...it has to place its files somewhere to play them...

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Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:42 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 21:11
@the_winch,
Its as secure as fpsPack...more so...I could easily crack Pack. Can't with this, using same methods. But to be honest I realize I'm being being very cryptic. And I don't care. I'm not posting this to help anyone figure it out. I posted it to show theres a working method, much like FPS Pack, that now works with FPSC's new save load. That this can be done.

No game uses encryption? Hmm...that must be why Blizzard made there own file extension, and is so wound tight about sites that release MPQ extractors, having the sites shut down, under the guise that it's their proprietary file type.

It takes 26 seconds for the loader to show the first screen. If starts pressed, it takes no longer to start the game then the un encrypted version. Loading our first level took 38 seconds. About a minute. Which is resonable.

Candle why post that?....Who cares? Really? Don't spam my threads with non sense...you know I don't put up with bull crap real well. If you wanna seem petty, I can play that as well, and need only say the version you attempted to work out with S4 was opened with winzip/winrar.....so quit...your not all that and a bag of chips. It's been established that this, and any other encryption device can be negated.

EDIT: After reading this again, I want to say this is starting to sound like the old joke "How many guitarist dose it take to screw in a light bulb: Any answer above 1. One to actually do it and the rest saying they could have done it better". Point is I dont see anyone else trying it, much less having it actually work. The more I read the less likely I'm thinkin this is going to be released then other to friends......figure it out your selves.....S4 owned your attempts.

Mods you can lock this puppy. Basically the people that need to know about it do...so this can fade in the depths of the TGC forum abyss.
s4real
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 20:56
Anythink can be cracked if you know how the software works and this is the same any one who wants to crack it will and thats the same with anything.

This is still at a beta stage and still being worked on.


Best s4

Im a wizz at texturing toilets
Candle_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 21:27
To bad that FPSC can't pass a password on before the game starts.
Wait I just look and I see a zip file that is password protect in the game\level bank folder?
Is that run in game? how is the password sent?
I need to know these things. lol <= laugh out load.


MY FPSC FILES
filya
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 21:30
Loc & s4,

it's good to see you guys trying to work something out regarding the encryption of fpsc files. Like it's been said before, something is much better than nothing at all.

In the current scene, all you get is a folder. It takes a person who knows how to use a mouse to get all your custom files.
FPS Pack, I dont own, simply because I know it's too simple to crack.

As for any other encryption process, all I can say is, at some point (at the least during the game being played!), all the files HAVE to be on your hard disk some place and in the original formats. So again, all you need to do is search.
So atleast with FPSC, it's almost impossible to make a decent encryption work.

When I was giving thought as to how I would make such a system work I thought of something like this :

Basically, you build the game like you do, except, the files are all renamed randomly with random extensions and placed in random folders. Of course, your .exe file would know and retain exactly what files it uses, so there would be no delay in loading or gameplay.

Pity I dont even know a programming language other than C, just the basics of it.

Of course, it wouldn't take a genius to open those files using trial & error, but I don't know anyone who would go through the process of trying to rename around 200-300 files to find what they want.


Anyways, I really do hope whatever it is you are working on works well. We all do need some kind of protection from leechers.

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
Candle_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 21:35 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 21:58
have fun.


MY FPSC FILES
Locrian
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 21:43
The files in the folder are the images you see when you go to load a saved game in fpsc. The others are 2kb dat files for each saved space in the FPSC client....None of the media is in the C:/gamesaves directory.

And it not opening in WINDOWS/Temp means you'd have to look for it huh? More steps to getting media. The point isn't to re-invent the wheel....Just to put spinners on it so we can pimp it out. If it wasn't the fact FPSPack didn't deal with saved games, and this dose, I'd of still been using Pack and considering it at least an attempt to protect the media. But this is working out better.

And mods this can still be closed......
Locrian
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 09:26
Terry, an Emails been sent...incase you don't use that often.

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