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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / HOW ABOUT GMAX SUPPORT????????

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 04:10
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Hey DB Pro team how about making some support for Discreets free gmax modeler?

The main thing is it is free!! and it is basically 3D studio cut down which makes it ideal for 3D models!!!

If you don't want to support .gmax files then how about writing some code to export .gmax files as .x from within gmax export feature?

Discreet release this program with a lot of games now and I think it's ideal for DB Pro users like me!

Let me know what everyone thinks.
What do you think RICH?

Support it m8 x-d x-d x-d x-d
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 04:13
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Nearly forgot!!
Gmax can make Quake maps as well!!!!!!!

What more can we want, models and maps in one program!!



Come on guys x-d

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 06:30
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I think it would cost them lots of money in licensing, but not sure

Alex Wanuch
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 11:00
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I agree with Spec on this one. That would be great! Of course, I am not to sure Discreet would like that too much. After all, if you can make desent models in G-Max for game programming, why by 3DS? You will notice they seem to only have G-Max work ONLY on specific games. But still, if Discreet would be nice about it, I'd vote YES!

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 11:55
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The whole point of GMAX is to provide 3DS-Max to game mod creators, in other words - I bought the game, want to make my own aircraft etc etc - so they supply GMAX and export filters so people can use it like that. It is not really intended as a proper modeller for everyday use.

Besides, spending £60 on Milkshape and Character FX is a far better option than Max.


Van-B
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:34
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only in your opinion Van... personally i prefer Max's setup for modeling as you can use splines and such without an awkard plugin, and the animation is all the same thing - although i'd also use Milkshapes Skeletal animation over CharacterFX's (really don't think much of that program even slightly)

gmax support would be nice, but from my understanding they are creating DBO exporters for atleast one of the major 3D Packages (Max/Maya/Lightwave/Softimage which one is anyones guess) ... problem with gmax and to a lesser degree MayaPLE is that although you don't pay anything for it, however the developers pay a licence of the units they wish to shift - starting at $200,000 per 500units and climbs the more units you want.
if you want a free modeller which supports DirectX exportation then Sofimage XSI 3.0EXP has just been given this as well as a .MAX/.3DS/.CHR/.SHP (Max Studio) importer

but if you're determined to use gmax then i'd suggest you learn Maxscript as the resourceful programmer can create a Maxscript exporter

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:37
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How can a low budget 3D modeller be better than gmax which is basically cut down 3D Studio MAX?

How is it that Microsoft supply it with the Flight Sim game, why not DB Pro for making models in .x format for DB Pro?

gmax is a free down load on the Discreet web site and as far as I am aware all that needs doin is an export routine programming for it in whatever format it is supplied for???

All DB Pro team have to do is supply a patch or something like that to export .x files from gmax, which I'm sure can't be too difficult for them because DB allready reads .x files!

Maybe it is a money issue?

Would be nice to hear from RICH on this.

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:41
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Softimage XSI free?

Well I'll go and check and download then, but got a feeling it's gona be a big download !!!

Quite like this .x format, wasn't sure at first but I've just been doin some stuff with Bryce and found that I can create a terrain and export as .x then use as a map in DB!!

Very cool

Nice one Raven for the tip!!



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Van B
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 14:53
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Yes it can, and has been done (as far as I know) - but you forget the most important thing - Discreet do not want us to use GMAX to do anything other than make models for GMAX supported software. DBPro and DB will never be accepted by Discreet as GMAX platforms, because they want us to buy 3DS-Max. GMAX is only really an add on for some games to make models for them, not aimed at us, aimed at the mod community.

As for comparing Milkshape to Gmax, well I have all the software your talking about, so I feel my opinion counts here - not 6 months ago you hated Max Raven, what's changed? - at least I always hated it .


Van-B
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:09
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SpecTre - I think you misunderstand what GMAX is intended for. It's not a "3D Studio Lite", it's something Discreet can license to games developers so that you can create custom content for those specific game titles. You will not find a (legal!) .X exporter for it, nor will they ever allow it to work with DBPro. That's simply not what it was designed for or how the license works.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:16
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yes Softimage XSI 3.0 EXP is free, is a 110mb download and works on WindowsNT/2000/XP/.Net
Linux Kernel 2.3.1 or later
Unix (can't remember the requirements)

MacOS & AmigaOS versions have been promised... and it isn't like MayaPLE or gmax in the way that it is a cutdown version because it has the exact same features as XSI - its interesting but for once a company is using the Honour System for people to use thier programs.
Basically in the Readme there is a thing that says something like "If you like this, then buy it"
also one of the cheaper professional products on the market - got the best Animation Engine in the business, and is capable of using Renderman­­™ and alot of other cool things.

you know that DarkBasic will be supporting MD3 again come patch5 though, and this time we've been told it'll actually work
so you could still use gmax on the sly if you really wanted to use a max clone... but then again Max4 is now only $500 so might as well get that, probably cheaper for students.

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Rollit
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:28
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I'm not too sure about Gmax, never used it so I can't comment on it... bad if you take MayaPLE for example... that's only for you to learn... you are not allowed to output any commercial model or image (well for commerical use, like in a game you want to sell). Rendered images are watermarked... it is really only to learn Maya and for Portfolio creation. These Companies are not going to give everyone a way to use the power of Maya or Max for FREE. So to have an exporter made for these cut down packages may never be a solution... not as things stand now anyway.

The good thing most people forgets is that for in-games graphics(unless you talking about FMV movies intros and endings.... I prefer in game graphics for intors though!) you would usually use low poly models...

yes with LOD (level of Detail) you can have some high poly models on screen
(and not too many at the same time escpecially if you have other things going on like AI, special effects, reatime lighting etc...

all counts towards processing power available by the specific gaming platform (PC CARD/cpu... or consoles)


NOW: even today after so long time Nurbs have been around, for most games, 3D artists still create their models out of POLYS...and if you are just concentrating in games (and not graphic design-prototyping etc..) all you need is a good low Polygon Modeller..
(yes there are other tools like surface modelling hybrids etc...but Polygon modelling is still the king and will be so for long time)

So if you consider that you do not really need for in game graphics high end rendering (you are doing magazine covers or tv movie animations are you?)... you may not need nurbs....you amy no need cloths plug ins etc etc etc.... IN THE END ALL YOU NEED IS A USABLE 3D POLYGON MODELLER and related tools With some good built in or 3rd party texturing tools

For exmaple Nendo was a $99 software and was simply excellent for poly modelling... now it looks like Wings3D has expanded on what nendo could do... so my guess (not used it yet... downloaded it last night) is that it cold be a very usable tool

Milkshape I have also not used, but it is very affordable and from what I hear from you guys it is capable of outputing good stuff (quality of models depend yes on how easy and productive the software is but most of it depends on your own Skills)

TrueSpace is another one...

Some Cinema4D Iteration

Eovia Carrara 2

etc...

I think one of the things to look for is the option to be able to export in .x format ofcourse via built in export function or extra plug in

it also looks like there are a few cheap/free UVunwrapping tools to add to you Tool Box!

So do not go too mad about trying to use the BigGuns software.. YOU DO NOT NEED IT (unless you want to learn it to score a job in the industry)

ALSO there is another thing you need to consider and that never transpires here
DO YOU ACTAULLY KNOW THAT ONLY IN THE RECENT YEARS games developers have started to use Softimage/Alias/Descreet software for ecery day use? Do you actaully know that the way is used to be and the way some developer still do is to use their own in house modelling editors?
And this editors usually all they do is Polygon modelling, lighting, texturing... and in house polygon modelling editors are no much different from what Nendo style software can do.

so again for in game models you do know need a full version of max or maya... You need to know (for the ones that do not know) that max and maya have been gifted with GAME RELATED TOOLS/Way to do things only in the last few years to try and get a foothold in the Games Industry market.... they started by adding things that other software like in house tools or nendo could ALREADY do ....
Max and Maya were not born to make games.

I can even go far to say that Nendo,I guess wings and even Carrara 2 have some polygon modelling feature that MAYA doens't have!!!
As a total software ofcourse the big guns can do more... but you do not need a total software


well I think I have been dragging for too long...
in the end what I want to say is grab the tools that are good enough to do the job and do the job...


Currently i'm using Maya 4.5 with a separate plug in to export to .x files (actully for x files i'm using maya 4.0 because the plug in in 4.5 to export .x files is not working!) Yes even Maya 4.5 does not come with a direct exporter for .x format....
BUT i'm on the look out for anoter more basic 3D modeller like wings3d with possibly a good texturing tool so to use a software that does not carry the weight of functions you do not really use for games models...

I'm lucky enough to use Maya at the place where I work.. that's all

Rollit

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 16:26
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Where can I get hold of the .x plugin exporter for Maya then?

That sounds pretty good.

Also just been trying Cinema 4D free magazine version 5, it is good but when you export as .x it saves the model but not the texture!!!???

Any ideas!

When I use Bryce (which is superb!!) I export and the program creates a texture file as well so when I load object the texture automatically loads in aswell!!

Basically all I want is a free modeller that can export .x with the texture, any ideas?

x-d

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 17:02
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Cinema 4D is my preferred package, the one I use all the time (as well as Milkshape). It is a shame Cinema4D cannot export animations though, but it will export 3DS and X files fine (including textures if they are the right dimensions).

Bryce isn't really a modeller, more a toy and it can't export any object other than terrains which is highly annoying.

I don't know of any good and free 3D packages.

Cheers,

Rich

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Rollit
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 17:06
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you can get the xport plug in for maya 4.0 and 4.5 here (look around this page)
http://www.highend3d.com/maya/plugins/

(but you can get it from the MS sdk dev. downloads for direct x9 if you got Dir.x 9 you may be better off getting the latest version of the x plug in afiles from the MS site
http://www.highend3d.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=1,2&Board=MayaGames&Number=145482&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 18:10
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I'm got Cinema 4D on now but can't seem to get it to save texture Rich u know what I'm doin wrong, when I load it into DB Pro it is just grey and there isn't a texture file with it.

I've loaded a .3ds file in and rendered on screen to test in Cinema 4D and it's all ok but it just won't export .x with textures ?! ?

Very strange

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 18:12
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Rollit thanks for the tip!

x-d

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 18:26
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SpecTre - the textures must be sized according to a power of 2 (i.e. 64x64 or 256x256 or 512x512 etc). This is a Cinema 4D and DirectX thing. Also when you export as .X from Cinema4D you need to have "Export Textures" turned on in the Settings and "Format" turned off. Make sure the texture files are copied into the same folder as the .X file.

Cheers,

Rich

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 18:36
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got the settings sorted but must be because the textures are not equal? Oh well that puts a stop to me converting.

I have a space craft in .3ds that I wanted to convert to .x that I've have got off a cover disk but how would I go about making the textures to the right sizes without spoiling the craft?

Can't wait until patch 5 comes out as this will resolve a lot of probs I think!!

Still like Bryce for landscape conversion though.

Got 2 .x objects for the landscape running in DB Pro one for landscape and on for the water.

How would I go about controlling a boat on the water so that it doesnt go straight through the landscape?

Any ideas



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Van B
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 19:08
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Don't worry about your UV coords, they're the same no matter what dimensions your texture is at. Like, the actual UV data goes from 0-1 on X and Y, but this is independent, so x0.5 would be in the middle of your texture image no matter how wide it is.

This means you can resize your textures any way you like to get them into 512x512 or 256x256 dimensions without affecting the UV texturing data.

For your land collision, I'd use a 2D array collision, like a huge grid on top of your level, with each grid reference storing whether it's on land or water. If your models are uniform, like a matrix, then I suggest looking into interpolation techniques and examples to calculate ground height based on 2D coordinates and 2D heightfield data. Of course, the simple array collision is fine if you don't need perfect collision - you could even use an art package to draw it. I'd render the landscapes in high resolution, then covert it down to something sensible, like 256x256, and 'draw' the shore line in a specific colour. This could then become your collision map.


Van-B
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 19:46
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OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What am I doing wrong!!!?

I've resized textures to 256x256 and loaded into Cinema 4D v5
then put resized textures in and rendered.
Nice picture of spacecraft!
Right, export to .x and load into DB Pro what do I get ?

Grey spacecraft!!!!?

HELP!!

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 19:56
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Export to .X - BUT also copy the texture files you need into the same directory as the .X file before you load it into DBPro. The .X file does not contain the textures, just links to them. If they can't be found the object will appear un-textured.

Send me your C4D file (and textures) by email and I'll show you what I mean.

Cheers,

Rich

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 20:06
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Okay m8ty!!

Files on way as I speak, hope you can help but as you will see the .x file is in the same folder?



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SpecTre1
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 20:18
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God you won't believe it but....................

I just turned textures ticked in preferences and unticked everything else and it now works!!!

x-d

I feel so thick!!! And I've just emailed you the lot Rich!!

Sorry



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Scorpyo
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 01:40
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this is what i use to walk on a .X terrain, where 60000 is the object number of my landscape

gosub heightcheck
position object (player),x#,h#,z#


heightcheck:
`calculate h# i.e. the height at player X & Z
ph#=intersect object(60000,x#,-100000,z#,x#,100000,z#)
h#=ph#*100-100000
return
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 17:39
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will come in very useful!

Thanks m8



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