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Geek Culture / PSX Disc Copying...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 16:55
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oki i'm trying to backup my collection of playstation games cause my bro wants to play them but i don't wanna like give him them and not be able to play them ever again ...
so anyone know of any software that sucessfully copyies playstation games?

i've tried CloneCD with CloneXXL but that doesn't work - the playstation doesn't want to recognise it, i'm sure there is one version of software which can write PS discs - and i'm sure someone here knows which one it is
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Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:03
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Well, practically any copying software can - but the question... is his PSX chipped?

CloneCD should have done the trick.

Then there's CDRWIN and those patches... but I don't want to explain it all here. I'm in the same boat, I prefer to hide the originals away and let my son play the copies. If you want I'll email you some info about how I make PSX backups.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:14
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i'd like that... but does the Playstation have to be chipped to play backed up games?

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Rob K
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:20 Edited at: 5th May 2003 17:21
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Yes.

There is a "wobble" / pregroove built into the PSX discs, where special region information etc. is stored. This area exists on a CDR disc but is not writeable (it contains info about the disc such as die type and recommended burning speeds for use by the recorder). No software can make fully standalone backups, the PSX MUST be chipped, either that, or there is, I believe, a boot disc which is inserted first to boot the system, then replaced with the copy.

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Mentor
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:32
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and interestingly, although nobody pays any attention to it at all, you are LEGALY entitled to make a working backup for your personal use of any software you own, either that or the makers should supply you with a replacement copy free of charge if it gets damaged (like THATS going to happen ), so all these protection systems they put onto software/media are actualy denying you your right to a working backup copy, nobody seems to be bothered about this but it makes me plenty mad, the amount of good software I have had to replace over the years (with later, more expensive, versions) just because I can`t back it up, GRRR!

Mentor.

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Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:37
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Yep. I think there might be boot disks too, but they're fairly rare. It's not a big deal to fit the chip assuming you could get hold of one - but the easiest option would be to just buy a second hand PSX with a chip already, about £30.

I'll email you later tonight with some details.


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Evil Noodle
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:56
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there is a cartridge too, primarrily designed as a cheat cartridge , it boots a normal psx cd past the checks then you put in the copy at the menu and continue

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:08
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well anyone who can figure this out without needing the chip, cause both are playstations are underwarrenty still and i don't particularly want to have to break that to be able to use backup games.

personally i don't care if it is legal or not to do this, i'm not paying for all the games i've got again - i have around 100 titles he wants, most are RPG multidisc, so really its expensive enough just getting enough CD's to copy as is. Not to mention downtime to actually do this... only have 3 cdrw's

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Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:10
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Note though that not everything will work. Even with a chipped PSX and clone CD etc. Somethings just don't want to work 100%. After it's chipped though pretty much all normal copying software works. Some of the earlier stuff even works on direct file copy in file manager. Even my old single speed RW wouldn't have it on some disks (and normally this works ok, as it doesn't check any copyright problems, and slow as possible to make sure doesn't cock up disk).

Haven't used the PSX in years though, so they might have got a bit cleverer with the protection since then.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:11
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You don't need your psx chipped you can skip the bios check with a boot cd then diskswap. Iso Images of one may be available on the net, but almost any discswapping boot cd (Such as an action replay, multiregion disc, vcd player etc) will read copied games afterwards

Its less hassle to chip if you know what you're doing but personally I never have.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:33
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ahh so thats what those BootDisc things i saw were... i figured they were for the PS2

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th May 2003 20:42
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Yeah, you can get various boot disks for both Playstations, I would hazzard a guess they aren't interchangable. If you can find any unnofficial plasystaion magazine with a cheats disk on the front they'll also work, and only set you back a fiver Datel used to manufacture a few of those. They still make a PS2 one, not sure about PS1.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 21:07
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oki well i'm downloading 2 bootdisk and documentation on howto use them for the PSx and PS2
i thought i'd get the PS2 just incase my bro want to back up his games.

personally i can't stand not being able to back mine up - its just a fact that i have this thing about people touching my CDs they put finger marks all over them and such... bleck drives me nuts

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th May 2003 21:35
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Yeah me too, especially having a 3 year old running around Its amazing what distruction he can cause to a cd in the tme it takes you to go to the toilet

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 21:47
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i'm about to sceam bloody murder... i keep getting the "Please insert a Playstation CD"

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th May 2003 00:11
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If you can't do it, next time I'm in Minehead I'll pick 1 up and try and copy it for ya if u like.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 00:30
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i've tried to make 2 so far... niether worked
it said to use EZCD but easycd didn't work

well my last solution is to setup the CD with this special sector thing using CDRWIN except v4 doesn't recognise my CDRW drives (all too bloody new ) so i think i've got a long afternoon ahead of me to figure this out. Unfortunately i only have like 20cd's left to keeps testing with... i know it probably shouldn't but would it matter if they're 700mb cd's rather than 640mb?

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Dazzag
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Posted: 6th May 2003 01:24
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Nope. Needs a chip. Have heard about certain games being able to work by ejecting a normal PSX disk at a certain point, then inserting a copy, but not many. Have never heard of a copying program that will work on an unchipped PSX. And Clone-CD seems to be a worse program for copying than the usual (Nero/Roxio etc).

Anyhows, seems at least 50% of all 2nd hand PSX's advertised seem to be chipped.

Cheers

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th May 2003 02:10
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Dazzag - It doesn't HAVE to be chipped if u can make a boot disk (several commercial ones are available) and thats what he's trying to do

You're right though the majority of psxs are chipped anyway, simply cos its so cheap. PS2s on the other hand are a different kettle of fish.

Raven, the size of the disk doesn't matter, but the format does. I can find out for you if I ask my m8

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indi
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Posted: 6th May 2003 06:36
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mac - astarte cd 2.0 then toast 3.5+

pc - nero or cdrwin


most psx games are multi mode xma mose 2 cds.
always get 80 mins cdrs

In most situations you need to find an ammended TableOfContents Patch.
TOC patches are applied to the iso once saved to the hard drive.
lots of websites have them.

add a parallax patch here also if u want (NTSC/PAL switch boot screen.)

The stealth mod chip was the easiest and best back then.

the cartridge is called a game shark and u feed it hex values to crack the programs features.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 10:17
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right well i've found out that i need to edit the boot sector of the CD i wish to copy (as firstly even 1:1 copyiers don't copy this section) i then have to get a regional tool so that i can make the copy work for the playstation its aimed for (in this case UK)
even if i do want a boot disc to be made i have to make sure of this.

now i found a very goo guide for doing this in CDRWin - only problem being is that i can't copy using CDRWin as it doesn't recognise my CDRWs so i'm gonna have to find out if one of the other has Nero or BlindWrite as they're both recommended.
if anyone can find them there is a selection of tool from 'daexpert' which setup the boot sector and region it, but i've been to his site and its been taken down. (was a truely horrible webhost though that only seemed to host rascist and propgander pages)

do have the PAL2NTSC<->NTSC2PAL converter which says works on PSX and PS2 CDs... so only problem now is finding everything i actually need now i know what i need
if i can setup the CD right, then i can either make 100% realbooting games (no modchip or bootdisc) or it might be easier to make a bootdisc that is capable of actually booting and then just use that.
Either way i can setup all of my US games to work on my brothers Playstation.

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th May 2003 10:34
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I just copied CD with neuro and checked it with a vaerifyer and it work straight off.

I mush have been lucky

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 10:38
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your gonna have to tell me what you did Martyn ... cause this is begining to drive me nuts.

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:07
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I put the PXS in my DVD DRIVE, put a blacnk CD in my CD-RW draw went onto neuro and did a copy.

Thats all.

Oh, is it a US disk? That may be the cause, i can get 5 PSX games for £1 in my town and PS2's for £5 each or 3 for £10 so UK games are copyable.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Van B
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:23
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Well, Martyn - don't take this the wrong way, but your PSX must be chipped then, not calling you a liar mate but there's no way that would work on a normal PSX.

I'm not really sure what your trying to do Raven, but Nero is no good for copying PSX games that have any sort of protection. You have a couple of options.

1. Get a chip
2. Get a cart
3. Find a bootdisk

Then, for copying you could get away with using CloneCD, however a lot of protected discs need CDRWIN and the patch. I like the patches because they often have little intros and cheat modes (trainers) like the old days of the ST and Amiga. What I suggest is that you get your credit card over to gamecopyworld.com and order a mod chip, these guys have no nasty popups, no porn stuff, etc I've used their site for years and it's always been great. You'll find everything you need to know at that site, installation instructions, patches, patchers, copy protection detection stuff for CloneCD.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2003 15:21
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i know a load of dreamcast boot disks but not PSX ones, so i'm not being helpfull..wait, try this:
http://www.megagames.com/psx/psx_utils.shtml
i just checked it and there r loads of tools and backup things there. Of course i havent tried them yet..

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 15:30
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cool thanks petrat... has something called PSone bootdisk, that is different to the playstation one - that would actually explain ALOT

downloading them now

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th May 2003 16:34
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I swear it works, i got the CDR from the guy that sells the pirate games though, maybe that could have somming to do with it?

Oh and no chips i am sure.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 16:45
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it probably does have something to do with it Martyn... because what i'm trying to do is rebuild the bootsector so that the Playstation things its a real psx cd - so far no joy, but i've not tried anything today i'm too busy

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:16
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yeah, its a shame there arnt many infomation sites about booting PSX disks as there are dreamcast boot thingy's. With the dreamcast you must burn a music track with the other stuff and leave the first 16 boot sectors blank, but its a lot different for the PXS..

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:18
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well, if your brother has a PC, then just copy the CDs and he could use an emulator to play them. emulators can read copied disks.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 18:14
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that would defeat the point... if he wanted the PC versions i'd just send him the ISO's but he wants stuff to play cause i've got ALL of the playstation games.
i still can't get this to work, anyone who has a PSone - could you try to see if you can get any of the bootdisc thingies working ... because its driving me insane that i can't get them workings.

if you do it lemme know what you used, the settings and such.

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Van B
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Posted: 6th May 2003 18:30
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The PSone was made in such a way that installing the traditional mod chips is impossible, however they can be chipped now. Stop scratching your head, I have a point! - the protection system might have been modified, meaning those boot discs won't work on anything but a PSone (I mean the smaller/newer PSX). I'll have a go tonight if I have time.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 18:36
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thanks Van
i am using my PSOne each time to test, my bro has both a PSOne and a PS2 so i dunno what he'll intend to use - but right now i just care about knowing that these copyies are actually working and i'm not gonna end up sending him a batch of useless CDs

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Rob K
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Posted: 6th May 2003 19:05
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"oki well i'm downloading 2 bootdisk and documentation on howto use them for the PSx and PS2"

You can't burn bootdiscs onto CDRs, they have to be pressed don't they ?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 19:13
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according to all the media its just a case of setting up the first 16 sectors (boot sector) of the CD to your playstation version & the data on the CD

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indi
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Posted: 6th May 2003 21:12
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someone posted a blank iso image on the net for psx discs that came with the yaroze devkit.

A blank copied disc slightly tweaked provides a swap disc method.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 22:30
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i just read the readme of the PSOne Bootdisc, and it says that it wasn't tested cause the devver only has a PSx ... no bloody good is it - how can you release something you've not tested like that
ho hum, you know i'm about the only person side from my bro i know that actually has a PSone, everyone else has either the lastes or the greystation (which is nuts)

maybe i should try to find which box i have my yaroze in, see if it works on that.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th May 2003 01:16
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well i dont know if you know this, but you can only play burned games on a CDR - not a CD-RW just incase you wondered

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indi
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Posted: 7th May 2003 09:28
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I have 1xxx / 5xxx and a 9xxx

Id love an original blue one
I prefer one with a parrallel port.

Do the new p sones have the parralel port?

http://www.lunarpixel.com

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Rob K
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Posted: 7th May 2003 10:35
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@Raven

The news that you can create a CDR bootdisc surprises me greatly, let us know if it works.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th May 2003 11:09
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nope, they've just got Video Export & Power, thats it...
get a nifty liftup lcd screen though

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:15
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Rob K, such devices have existed as long as the Playstation themselves, Datels Action Replay CD bypasses the boot sequence and allows you to insert copied or foreign cds after it, just a case of starting the game with no cheat code

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Van B
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Posted: 7th May 2003 19:27
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Yeah, I think my mate used an action replay cart, you get a daft little spring to fit to the PSX CD lid, which pushes the close-detect switch down!.


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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 00:37
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@Kangaroo2

Yes, but those are PRESSED (ie. factory-made CDs), where the manufacturers (Datel) can put the necessery "special data" onto the CD. I would be surprised if this was possible (ie. to make a bootdisc) using a CDR though, as that area is not writeable.

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 8th May 2003 09:46
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Ahh I see your point - sorry In that sense you may well be right, I've never tried it myself, just used ones I have bought.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:11
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there isn't an area of a CD which cannot be written on a CDR/CDRW, remember they're different formats which is why some older or cheaper cdroms can't read them.
when pressed the first 64sectors are automatically declared, then the rest of the CD is written as standard - so what we've gotta do is setup these CD's properly so that the Playstation ALSO thinks they're real.

i've got one boot disc working on Alex's PS2 now ... still no joy on my PSOne though and i'm not determined to get this setup for my PSOne, whether he needs the CD or not.
If nothing else i want to be able to write the boot sector so i can write a program specifically to do it

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Evil Noodle
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Posted: 8th May 2003 15:19
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Just come up to the Barras ,Raven . Theyll sort you out with a brand new (nudge nudge , maybe a couple of blood stains) fully chipped psone for the price of a tennents special

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 16:28 Edited at: 8th May 2003 16:33
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"there isn't an area of a CD which cannot be written on a CDR/CDRW, remember they're different formats which is why some older or cheaper cdroms can't read them."

Yes there is, it is called the ATIP, or Absolute Time In Pre-Groove. Trust me, I know about this stuff, I write CDR-based copy protections. They are not different formats to normal CDs either, the reason why older CDROMs cannot read them is that the pits and lands are less clearly defined on the CD surface (the surface looks a bit like an out-of-focus photo of a normal CD)

Plenty of very capable people have tried to create a CDR based bootdisc or backup already, and the general consensus is that it is impossible because the ATIP cannot be written too.

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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 16:31
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>> btw. if you want a very in-depth discussion on this matter, goto http://www.cdfreaks.com. Go to the Forums and check the PSX topic in the Optical Storage Technology forum.

Some of those people are idiots, but a few, blackcheck, Spath etc. know what they are talking about.

I have never ruled out the possiblity of a CDR bootdisc, but given the limitations, and the fact that we haven't seen one despite the 9 years for which this protection has been in use, I would think it unlikely that we ever will.

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