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FPSC Classic Product Chat / My Vista Experience

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bond1
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 07:30 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 17:47
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EDIT: This is NOT a "Vista sucks" thread. I'm just giving some pointers for the early adopters like me who want to get a jump on Vista.

Well I went out and dropped $240 dollars on Vista Home Premium (full edition, not upgrade) , and 3 sleepless nights later, I think I can finally sleep now. It wasn't exactly a "Wow" experience like the box says.

Here are my tips for anyone who is thinking of upgrading now. First of all, DON'T buy the upgrade, get the full version. Secondly, don't ditch your XP install, Vista simply isn't ready for the big time yet. Driver support is hit and miss, for example I had to buy a new wireless adapter since my relatively new D-Link adapter didn't have Vista drivers.

So, you'll want to dual boot your system so you can have both XP and Vista. I HIGHLY recommend installing Vista on a separate physical drive, rather than a separate partition. Then you can choose which drive to boot from from your motherboard's bios, and have both OS's completely isolated from each other. If you absolutely have to install Vista on the same drive as XP, then create a new partition, and install Vista from within XP. This will give you the dual boot option. Don't install Vista by booting from the dvd, otherwise Vista's crappy boot manager won't properly recognize both OS's.

The preferred method would be to unplug your XP system drive, and install Vista on it's own separate drive, then you can plug your XP drive back in and use your motherboard to pick which drive to boot from. That's what I ended up doing, and it's working perfectly now.

So now I have a system that is X10 ready . But to be honest I'm kinda unimpressed with Vista so far. The Aero desktop is pretty cool, but I don't know how useful it's going to be other than eye-candy. And my highly tweaked XP install is definitely faster than Vista, which seems sluggish at times. And Vista has to ask for "permission" to do just about ANYTHING, which is incredibly annoying, a window pops up prompting for your permission to change anything in the control panel, installing programs, etc. I need to find a way around that or I'll go insane.

Needless to say I'm sticking with XP for now, but I can boot into Vista anytime I want to try the newest X10 demo though, which is the only reason I've upgraded. I'm sure Vista will turn into a great OS in time, but right now I'm kinda like: "it took six years for THIS?!"

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"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 07:49
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Quote: "but right now I'm kinda like: "it took six years for THIS?!""
lol
really??
i thought vista since its been 6 six would be a big upgrade (like from 98 to XP)
and yer i think i agree with the aero-glass...i think its just a marketing eye candy thing
well i think ill wait a bit b4 i get it
until service packs and stuff have come out


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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 07:51
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Dang lol I JUST put my order in for a brand new dell xps with vista. :s Guess I won't pawn my laptop I'm using now anytime soon. Thanks for the tip!

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
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bond1
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 08:08 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 08:08
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Yeah keep that XP system for a while...

I realize that the retail version of Vista hasn't even been out for a week yet, I would suspect that driver support should really kick into high gear in the coming months.

But yeah, Vista just hasn't impressed me the way XP did after upgrading from Windows 98. There's just nothing really there that improves how I do things from what I can see. In fact, with all the "permission" popups, and security "features", it actually seems more cumbersome to use.

I have faith that after all the hardcore tweakers get their hands on Vista that it will be great, but for now I'm just waiting for X10.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 09:07
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Well at least TGC will perhaps have one potential customer buying FPSC X10, but reading your Vista report and knowing the trouble with FPSC under XP, I wouldn't be suprised X10 is going to be a nightmare.

I'm sure you'll let us know in due time.....

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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 09:40 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 09:40
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yer
if the normal fpsc has this many bugs
imagen wat X10 will have...with the new GFX stuff and junk.
i think vista is still cool, but its kinda pointless if u dont have the nVidia 8800 card, because vista is mostly about DX10(for me and most gamers). So until i get a new Mobo that has Core2 Duo..with SLI and i have a DX10 card..i wont be needing Vista (wich will be some time because i got $0)


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pdidy
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 10:12
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hi i have beta tested vista for a while and found network
drivers a pain, took me ages to get a linsys driver.
also still cant run any version of max stable.
fpsc runs fine and most other apps used for it but can be
a bit buggy at times. other than that i recomend it as a great
fun and secure version but look for suport for all your software
first then you wont be disapointed. and most of all if you are doing it for x10 be sure of the specs needed its not just a case
of buying a new graphics card. it will be more like motherboard
power supply and cpu. dual core + memory.
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Candle_
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 14:38
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We use's to buy a OS for the computer!
Now we buy a better computer for the OS?
Something just not right with this picture.


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Silvester
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 15:45
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Tue Candle_,I have some quite old parts and it runs fine with XP,but to get Vista i will need to get Vista for around $300 here,and then another $600 for a new system that actualy works with it.

And then still im not there,as i then have a crappy thing that is not alot better then XP...

-Prince Of Darkness
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 15:51
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smartest thing to do is to wait 'till you're gonna buy a new machine, and get Vista with that... why go out and rush to get it right now...

i think the people ordering new machines that come with Vista are going to have a lot better WOW experience than those upgrading... there's bound to be lots of issues that are gonna need to be resolved... drivers compatibility amongst the top of the list...

--Mike
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Locrian
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 15:52
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Thanks for the review Bond. Your words are duly noted.
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bond1
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 17:43 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 17:43
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I don't want this to turn into a "Vista/Microsoft sucks" thread, because that couldn't be farther from the truth.

I was simply giving some pointers for the early adopters like me. I really think that Vista is gonna be pretty awesome once driver and software support catches up. And yes, 3ds max isn't "officially" supported on Vista yet.

I totally agree with the comment about buying a new machine along with Vista, if you're thinking about slapping it onto your Pentium 3 rig with your Radeon 9600 AGP card, then think again.

I have an Athlon Dual Core 4200+ processor, Geforce 8800GTS card, and 2gigs of RAM. Plenty of power for Vista, and once I figure out how to get the Vista's settings optimized, I think I'll be a happy camper.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Candle_
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 19:29
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Here ya go bond.
http://www.vlite.net/


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DieRider
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 09:52
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bond we share the same cpu and amount of ram, i got the asus m2n-e for the am2 socket...and i read somewhere that theres a way to disable the damn UAC or whatever its called but i cant remember where i heard it

And also im curious as to why buying the full version is better than upgrading?

in australia home premium is $450, but i can upgrade to ultimate for $495 and im wanting to upgrade to ultimate but now uve said that buying full is better im confused.

The sad fact is that i can read script, but i just cant write it.
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bond1
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 11:08
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Quote: "And also im curious as to why buying the full version is better than upgrading?"


Well I guess that this is just my subjective opinion. But having to install Vista on top of Windows XP is not something that sounds fun, especially if I ever want to reformat or install Vista on a new hard drive. You would have to install XP first, then install Vista - no thanks!

If I'm going to install a new OS, I don't want it tied to the old one in any way.

Again, this is my opinion, but I think most people don't need Ultimate, and Home Premium is just fine. I don't like overly bloated features that I'll never use, so Home Premium is all I need.

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"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 11:19
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Yeah, I had that problem with XP - got the upgrade, so everytime I reinstalled I had to first install Windows2000 then upgrade. I since get a better install disk (works from boot-up or upgrade).

My brother got it, and I hate it.

I mean, in XP I had a shortcut to my storage drive, and he was happily making levels for my game, no problems.
In Vista, well firstly the undo feature had to be changed because it uses the C drive, my evil game likes to have a 7k undo file somewhere, and keeping it simple, and making it work for multi-user access is impossible, expecially when Vista refuses permission to create the file. So I change the undo save to drive D, and same problem, aparantly it's not just anal about it's system drive, storage drives are it's bitches too. Finally decide to copy the folder accross so he can run it locally and we'll copy the level files back later - only works once I give write permission for the entire drive D. Is that how it's gonna pan out? - we have to tell Vista it's ohhh-freakin-kay to make the file we just made. I hate it.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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bond1
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 12:50
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I ran into the same thing. Like you my storage drive holds my FPSC install, as well as a bunch of other stuff I don't want on my C drive. I tried to change the settings in an .ini file for one of my programs on my storage drive, it took me like 3 tries and lots of WTF's before I realized it was Vista not letting me do it. I just don't have the patience right now for all of Vista's quirks. So after a few hours in Vista I felt all warm and fuzzy booting back into XP.

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"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Advancement Games
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 02:21
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I am waiting until Quarter 2/3 of this year to buy my new computer with Vista on it. That is when I will consider buying FPSC X10 and/or DBP X10 alongside it. I'd like to see more DX10 cards out first before buying, and I want some price drops. Then I can start development on my new game!!!
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DieRider
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 06:22
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Im told the Nvidia 8800 whatever model is a waste of money because when vista becomes more mainstream and is on most percentage of pcs and more games have come out for it the 8800 will be old technology.

A new game with new graphics can take over 2 years to develop and release, yet there are generally new card releses every 6 month, so i think ill wait as well.

The sad fact is that i can read script, but i just cant write it.
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Locrian
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 06:33
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@Van B,
Your comment:
Quote: "we have to tell Vista it's ohhh-freakin-kay to make the file we just made"

-just made me chuckle. All I can think about are the Mac commercials.

Quote: "You are comming to a sad realization! Cancel or allow?

..............*sadly* allow"
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Candle_
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 08:13
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MY FPSC FILES
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pdidy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 14:27 Edited at: 8th Feb 2007 14:28
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well i finaly had to do something i love vista but no compatibility
with max and some other programs i did the best thing.
dual boot, xp for fpsc and max ect and vista for the net side
we have to get used of the idea of vista so i will do it this way
for now and enjoy it.
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Jourdan
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 15:17
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yeah, vista kind of dumb thing.. alot of add ons for XP like VISTA THINGY has been created along time before it.

Nothing is Impossible..
Really!
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Thraxas
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 22:32
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Quote: "Yeah, I had that problem with XP - got the upgrade, so everytime I reinstalled I had to first install Windows2000 then upgrade"


I always put the XP upgrade cd in on boot and started a clean install... something used to come up about this being an upgrade and needing to find the install of windows, I would put my windows 98 cd in the drive the install then sees you own a copy of windows and then asks for the xp cd and installs clean onto the system...

It was even easier when I had a copy of windows 3.11 on floppy as I didn't even need to take the cd out to install windows 95 fresh on a new system... It just checked the first floppy and then installed...


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 22:41
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Thraxas, I always do the same and with Win95, Win98 and WinXP that worked fine, so I don't see why it wouldn't be the same with Vista.

It may be different with Vista since MS has gone totally piracy paranoid and in theory you could use someone else's original CD, so perhaps they decided that you need to have a registered version of XP installed to use the Vista upgrade.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 23:58
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Quote: "It may be different with Vista since MS has gone totally piracy paranoid and in theory you could use someone else's original CD, so perhaps they decided that you need to have a registered version of XP installed to use the Vista upgrade."


Piracy paranoid doesn't even begin to describe it... the only people they hurt with all these anti-piracy measures are the people who don't pirate things anyway... The people who do pirate things will find ways around all the protection anyway...

It would be interesting to know if you can do it this way, as when I'm eventually forced to upgrade by all the new software only being vista compatible I would rather only pay the upgrade price rather than the full price...


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maxd
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 08:32
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hi all,

just my 2pennies worth

[quote And also im curious as to why buying the full version is better than upgrading? ]

if you upgrade, your original licence becomes invalid with vistas new licencing, so you cannot dual boot....(legaly)unles you own several licences of xp for that machine...

sucks...
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maxd
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 08:33
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saying that,

i like vista, been using it since installation, tho i had to buy a new wireless adapter as my belkin didnt have vista drivers either.

i dual boot with xp as most of my 3d apps dont work with vist too well...
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Van B
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 09:01
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Does M$'s licence policy apply to OS's though - like If I go and buy Office07 or whatever it's known as now, I'm entitled to use Office03, Office2000, Office97. I don't see why they'd even care if you dual booted, really your paying above and beyond for Vista, just because it's an upgrade does not mean that your original install is illegal, in fact don't M$ have to have an uninstall system, so you can go back to XP?

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 09:18 Edited at: 9th Feb 2007 09:20
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Quote: " dual boot with xp as most of my 3d apps dont work with vist too well... "


That's mainly because MS has boycotted OpenGL in Vista. There's a thousand reasons not to swithc to Vista at this time and I'm not going to dual boot just for certain applications.... I've got better things to do with my time. I'm sticking to XP and if ever I do buy a new PC I'll consider getting Vista, but at this moment I'm not even prepared to spent $200 or more on a stupid OS. I've got much better destinations for my money then paying for an overpriced, overrated, buggy and annoying new OS.

Also keep in mind that MS will support XP to at least 2011, but most likely much longer, so I'm absolutely in no hurry to get Vista.

I still find it funny reading how a lot of people spent days on installing Vista, then tweaking for days and then going back to XP, since their hardware or software isn't supported.

While they've waisted a week on Vista, I've been able to create a nwe comic and finished the first level for new game that goes with the comic. (Before someone smart mentions that I wouldn't create games with FPSC anymore for now, you're correct, the game isn't being developed with FPSC at all. I'm adopting the same strategy with FPSC as with Vista, don't use it until it works fine, except for SpiderZ and perhaps Commander Josh, which I started working on already, but I'm even considering using something else for SpiderZ and dropping CJ2 completely, unless FPSC get's fixed.)

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Trinity Pictures
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 07:43
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Quote: "Dang lol I JUST put my order in for a brand new dell xps with vista. :s Guess I won't pawn my laptop I'm using now anytime soon. Thanks for the tip!"

lol. Too late for me, I bought a new Gateway laptop with vista home premium last saturday.

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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 22:44
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Sounds to me like Vista is basically a way for Microsoft to take total control over the computer world.
They must have like, total hacker and piracy paranoia and they're vista is going to be for like, noobs. Just like Macs.

The scary thing is that macs blow, has microsoft forgotten that the reason people by its operating systems is for improved flexibility and control? (rather than buying linux)
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Raul
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Posted: 12th Feb 2007 01:27
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hmm, I'm getting my free Vista Upgrade in the mail one of these days. I think I'm going to hold off on installation though until it has about 50% penetration.
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