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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Intersecting textures

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 11:52 Edited at: 6th May 2003 11:56
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I've two screenshots to show the problem I have here, and wish to know of any possible solution.

The rendering error occurs in DBPro only not DBC at all, and occurs whenver one texture intersects another - this is manifesting itself everytime I try to make a tree out of primitive objects.

Is there a solution?




Pneumatic Dryll
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Van B
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Posted: 6th May 2003 12:32
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Whoah!, looks bloody cool despite the bugs!

The trees look dark ghosted, is that the case? - that would explain the dark areas and transparency when it meets the ghost range. Maybe a bug in DBPro is ghosting them automatically, they do look very dark too. I think the problem might be the fog, like when it's fading in the fog, it's affecting the transparency. Or - could be an alpha channel problem, what bitmap format are you using for the textures, like if you use .png I can imagine this type of problem, like the texture has a transparency layer, like a mask - if the .png is missing the mask, then it might mistake it for a semi-transparent texture.

Some things to try:
Use .bmps for the textures.
Disable the fog.


Van-B
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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th May 2003 12:44 Edited at: 6th May 2003 12:45
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i don't think one should *have* to disable the fog... as it takes away from the scene... also, what are the computer specs?

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 16:58 Edited at: 6th May 2003 17:02
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I only recently turned fogging on to tinker with it, normally I preffer not to use it at all - here's a sample with fogging off and the problem very much still in evidence.



The textures are .bmp format and the objects are unghosted.

Here is their setup routine:


I've tried constructing the tree's from two DB plains by a method similar too:



And i've tried constructing the tree in a variety of methods either as a strait dual plain X shape; as a reverse-culled X shape with opposing faces moved slightly away from each other; and as a segmented X shape so each 4 'wings' of the X where a different limb.

The bushes incidentally are a V shape with an extra vertical line down the middle so they have no limbs intersecting. The bushes do not suffer this problem.

This problem only seems to manifest when a texture passes through another.

It occurs on DPro 3.1 and 4.0 - and probably earlier versions of DBPro also - but I never had this with DBC.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:07
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Forgot to mention specs:
I'm using a AMD-2Ghz PC with 512mb ram, 100gb HD, GeForce 2 GTS and a 'kin big monitor The problem also occurs on an Intel-800Mhz, 512mb ram, naff all HD with a Creative Riva TNT 2.

I've not tried our Voodoo 3 system because i've a texture that is too large for it to cope with (the matrix). The matrix texture incidentally is a .png and is 2048x1024 - i've had the same problem with it stored as a .bmp.

The tree textures are not square, could this be the reason? I'll experiment but in the meentime any other ideas are much appreciated...

Pneumatic Dryll
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Dave J
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:20
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Why in lords name do you have such a large matrix texture?

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:34
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Because DB still wont support using individual textures for different tiles on the matrix meening one big tile texture has to be broken down.

By the time you've done one set of blends from water to sand, and sand to grass, then done water to grass you're ready to start on the altitudinal blends - but already you are at 40 images and you havn't even got as far as putting roads on yet and they transverse different terrain types and all need blending too...

It would be really nice of DB supported multi-texturing on the matrix and allowed us to specify any image as a matrix tile - until then it's either large texture files or write my own (and i'm not ready for that yet).

I don't really like the matrix system, i'd rather be using 256x256 textures for a start but i've had to shrink to 128x128 to keep the matrix texture down already!

Of course all those blends arn't needed for most matrix engines, but then not all matrix's are 2000x2000 in size with 500,000 trees on

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Dave J
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:57
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Oh lol, fair enough, all I saw in the screenshots was grass and assumed you had one hell of a grass texture sitting there.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Van B
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Posted: 6th May 2003 18:01
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PD, I hope your using VANtrans....
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 19:09 Edited at: 6th May 2003 19:09
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No sorry VanB I use PSP7. I know many people can't get on with it but it's the closest i've found to DPaint and if you persevere long enough making blends and other effects is very easy - afterall if I can do it i'm sure a more artistic person can!

It doesn't directly support wrapping textures but i've long since got my workaround to that - and the BETA of version 8 had texture wrapping in but I can't afford to upgrade atm. I know, serials 2000 or whatever, but i'm not like that - i'm not sure how any programmer can be!

The only tool I really seek at the moment is a texture unwrapper/wrapper - i've toyed briefly with the one from www.unwrap3d.com but just havn't had the time to play properly and look at alternatives - would you believe i'm still using max's UVwrap and 3D Exploration to do all my texturing!

BTW for those that are interested, this is Terrascape XIII and is the game engine for the model featured on my avatar

Pneumatic Dryll
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 19:29
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Fixed it, the problem was non-square textures. Amazing how these things can manifest themselves sometimes eh...

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th May 2003 20:55
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I've put a demo out if anyone wants to see it

http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=9971&b=8

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Van B
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Posted: 7th May 2003 11:50
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Hehe, your old mate Simple has Lithunwrap on his website and some really cool tutorials for it.

Glad you got it sorted , I'll be checking that demo out later.

I think you got VANtrans and VANseam mixed up! - VANtrans is for smoothly blending 2 128x128 textures together to make all the possible transitions, would save you time if your using 128x128 textures anyway. I use PSP too, have done for ages.

It's actually really simple to make tileable textures in PSP. What to do is start drawing your texture in the middle of the image, not touching the edges. Then select the left hand side of the image and mirror it - then invert the selection and mirror that too. Now you have an image with a sorta giant capital I in the middle, without touching the edges, draw your texture in the middle again. Now, select the top half and flip it, then invert the selection and flip that, you will then have a black line going through the middle, draw the texture over that without touching the edges. Repeat the left and right mirrors and draw over the little black that's left - and you have a perfectly seamless texture .


Van-B


Van-B
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 7th May 2003 12:31
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Bah too much fiddling around for my neanderthol brain, I just blend in the opposite edge using the clone tool.

The benefit is that you get to draw the whole texture at once and then just 'polish' the edge when your done to make it wrap - rather than doing this bit, that bit, careful of the edge bit

Of course, it does very much depend on the texture...

Pneumatic Dryll
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