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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Don't want to sound like bitchin, but..............

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 7th May 2003 04:00
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If you've read one of my other threads you'll know I am strugglin with my childrens colouring game, 2 commands that DB Pro can't do.

Quite a few people on the forum have bin really great trying to help me and I can see from this forum are doing there best to help me still!

The only thing is I could also do with a bit of help from the DB Pro team with this as well.

Reasons, I know DB Pro is mainly for 3D games but on the back of the box it says : quote-

"creat any type of game or application"

"produce any 2D or 3D effect you desire"

"no matter what type of game you plan to make, by providing rapid development solutions, DB Pro has the power to handle them all. It does all this and remains the easiest programming language available."

right:

DB Pro is the best and easiest programming language I have ever used and it is great!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT

I'm making a 2D game, which I should be able to do any 2D effect, one of the most basic 2D effects is - flood fill - has DB Pro got this? NO
For applications I would have thought a print facility would be vital, it is for my 2D game. Has DB Pro this? NO

no matter what type of game you plan to make........
any 2D or 3D effect..............
game or application..........
presentations.......................

hmmmmm????????
is it all true???? NO

Now I know u can't please everyone but I hope Patch 5 will rectify this problem because personally I think these 2 commands are vital to DB Pro if the above advertising is gion to be true:

Paint x,y,col

Print text / Print bitmapnumber,x,y,x1,y1

what do you guys think????

am I being unreasonable???

Rich?? Lee?? Patch 5?????

p.s. I am not slaggin off just fed up and disheartened!

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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spooky
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Posted: 7th May 2003 04:12
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Whooaahh, calm down! Your original post was only on the 5th! Most people will help but give them time! We have work or school to go to you know.

MrTAToad is currently working on printing bitmaps I believe and I WAS going to rewrite floodfill so it does not crash but maybe I won't bother now.

Only kidding. Windows has built in functions for flood fill but I can't get them to work. I am awaiting an answer but will quite happily wait a few days without whinging.

Be patient and you will be rewarded!

Gronda, Gronda
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th May 2003 04:15
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I doubt Patch5 will see the introduction of a flood fill command. I've seen several good examples posted here already and with a little debugging they should work fine.

As for printing, there are a few DLLs available to do this, but none will handle graphics AFAIK.

As for the claims on the box - people have demonstrated that a flood fill is perfectly possible using native commands and using DLLs printing would be too. It doesn't actually say that you'll be able to make any application using nothing but the native command set.

I appreciate the frustration, but we're not really in the 16-bit home computer era any longer and the majority of people wouldn't find an immediate use for a fill command. Those that did need one, wrote one for themselves. Printing however I know is coming.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 7th May 2003 04:18
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I can see from your post that you and others are doing there best but it does get you down a bit when these simple functions should be included and maybe if enough people agree they may be in a future patch?

I did say I wasn't slaggin off m8 just want a response, I said DB Pro is the best language I've used before.

Just expressin my fellings m8 stayin cool



l8rz m8

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 7th May 2003 04:25
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Hello Rich nice to see Printing is on the way as going off what I've heard a lot of people would like it.
Wish I could understand dll so I could write a routine command for myself, thats why I bought DB Pro so I could get round all that C++ etc stuff.

I'm still happy with DB Pro though, did I come over to harsh?
didn't mean to, oh well.

What about this flood fill command then Rich, any chance of putting a word in?
Bet Lee could knock that up in a few mins! x-d

Speak to you l8rz Sonic

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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 7th May 2003 06:11
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It doesn't actually say that you'll be able to make any application using nothing but the native command set.

you gotta love that legal technecality mumble jumble stuff.

CTP
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 7th May 2003 06:18
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Ok, you have to be reasonable! The stuff on the box is true, but if you want to get technical, you can condemn anything. So what the hell good is that???

Anyway, poor SpecTre and I have the same problem... we just talk normally on the net, but when others read it we come across as being angry/harsh/bitching etc. Thats one reason I despise MSN lol, I always end up trying to convince someone that I'm not mad...

Anyway, Floodfill would be nice but when you think of it, it isn't vital to a 2D app. When you really get down to it, there are only a small handful of apps that would use this. And Printing isn't necessary, but would be VERY useful, I must agree.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 7th May 2003 07:31
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OK this isn't bitching either - just some thoughts as I read this post I thought i'd share:

Cigarette packets have a dirty great warning on them that they might kill you - and people still buy them in their millions...

The DBPro box gets mentioned a fair bit on these forums when somebody wants something, but I wonder - how many people here ordered online and therefor only saw the box after purchasing the product? I think the figure is probably in excess of 99%...

Pneumatic Dryll
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 7th May 2003 17:36
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Come on Lee Bamber how about this Flood Fill command then?

How about in Patch 5 or 5.1 a week later!? LOL

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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Van B
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Posted: 7th May 2003 17:55 Edited at: 7th May 2003 17:57
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Pah, I'll make you a flood fill function later - I did one ages ago for David89, should be able to fix it up for you without hassle. If it's for a colouring book, does that mean there'll be constraints, useful ones though. For example, you could say that black is the master ink colour, and make it impossible to destroy the image by filling in the black lines.

What I would do is have a plain black and white image. User clicks on any colour apart from black, and it fills it in - if you need to fill in with black, use dark dark grey instead, black should never be the filling colour. This would actually make coding the fill easier for me, and make the colouring app easier for kids to use.

Please give me some info about how you will store the fill colour so you can pass it to the array (it'll be like floodfill(x,y,col))


Van-B
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MiniMark
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:06 Edited at: 7th May 2003 18:12
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Spectre, dont know if this helps might, might not. I dont actually program in DB, I help someone else with it, but i dont know a lot of the commands. But I am assuming here that DB can color per pixel. I once programmed minesweeper in vb and had to write a routine that would if it found an empty square search the squares around it to see if they were empty and clear them. Shouldnt be to hard to write a routine which has the same effect (in essence)and draws lines or changes pixels colors until it finds a pixel of different color. Cant remember where that code is and i wouldnt expect anyone to read it as i dont comment and have funny variable names. But I think if you work on this theory your floodfill routine will work. Simple grid maths, look up one, back one, forward one down one and expand where you can. Be interesting to try but I dont get much time to program for fun. Hope this Helps. And if I'm wrong about the DB pixel thing. I'm sure someone will point it out real quick .

Good luck with it.....

--Twin P4 Xeon 2.0 Ghz, GeForce Quadro4 XGL 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, 19" Flat Screen--
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MiniMark
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:22
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Read further down the other posts didnt realise people had already posted code.

--Twin P4 Xeon 2.0 Ghz, GeForce Quadro4 XGL 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, 19" Flat Screen--
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Van B
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:22
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That's the way to go.

The last time, I just set the target pixel to the fill colour, then made several passes over an enlarging grid. The grid would start at the target pixel and grow until no more filling was done. Each pass in each direction would simply check each pixel, if it's next to a pixel the same as the fill colour, then it fills it too. Not hugely fast, but pixel perfect. After the passes it would expand the grid until it completed a set of passes without needing to draw a pixel.


Van-B
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:35
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i think where to hand Rich & Lee.we come on to this forum and say "we whant this to be in the next Patch" it makes u stop thinking that we can make any thing ower self.you can easyle make a Flood Fill command you have the command its MAKE MEMBLOCK FROM BITMAP you do`t see C++ progamers going to there forum saying i think C++ meeds this new command.

[b]) --Dr 0-- [b])


Most people are other people.Their thoughts are someone else`s opinions,thier lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation
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Rob K
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Posted: 7th May 2003 18:51 Edited at: 7th May 2003 18:53
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@SpecTre

DBS' advertising contains more blatant lies / misleading statements than a speech by the ex-Iraqi Information Minister. Most of us know this, so we try the demo first before we buy. The demo features the same commands as the real thing.

"It doesn't actually say that you'll be able to make any application using nothing but the native command set."

... Rich, it does rather INFER that though. Still, as Spectre is showing, it helps to sell the product.

Current Project: TANK MELÉE [Artwork]

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Van B
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Posted: 7th May 2003 19:12
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Ok, VB is the biggest programming language in the world, most used ever! - simple as that, yet it's native commands can't flood fill or print a full A4 page. In fact MrTatoad, I have VB6 code for calling a .dll flood fill if you wanna look see.

Tonight Spectre will have a fully working flood fill, and no doubt our .DLL guru buddy MrTatoad will provide a print bitmap method.


Van-B
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APEXnow
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Posted: 7th May 2003 19:15
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The good thing that comes out of the whole situation though is that you didn't have to pay for the patch upgrades which eventually adds new functionality to the product. But I aint gonna go down this road again, I'm sure theres hundreds of postings about this very issue elsewhere.

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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spooky
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Posted: 7th May 2003 19:25
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Other thread

http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=9933&b=1

has a floodfill by IanM and myself but apparantly bombs out on complicated fills because of recursive calling. Could rewrite by using stacks and arrays but more elegant solution is windows dll.

I too use floofill and extfloodfill command in VB6 from the gdi32.dll library and was hoping to do same in DBPro but could not get it to work. Suggestions about backbuffers may solve this though. If it works should allow you to use the other clever stuff in that dll.

Gronda, Gronda
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 7th May 2003 19:32
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You cant use the GDI system because thats for window painting, and wont directly modify the DX frame buffer...

You'll be pleased to know that printing of bitmaps (to a printer) is coming on well...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Rob K
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Posted: 7th May 2003 23:27
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"Ok, VB is the biggest programming language in the world, most used ever! - simple as that, yet it's native commands can't flood fill or print a full A4 page"

My VB6 can certainly print documents, it has a built-in Printer object, which seems reasonably flexible.

After the rant, I am now going to say something in DBS favour, their software is PRIMARILY for game-making, and developing a GUI etc. would take a long time and they could not spend as long on the compiler / 3D-engine.

BTW. Where is Patch 5?

Current Project: TANK MELÉE [Artwork]

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 8th May 2003 00:06
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Seems like this has created quite a good discussion!!

By the way, what I am programing and nearly finished appart from the Print and good working Flood fill is the colouring book.

Simple pictures of black and white, black not being able to touch 0,0,0

Got 16 colours to use black being one of them but at rgb(1,1,1)

All you guys are really cool and very helpful, think will make a lot of friends on this forum!!

Catch u l8rz

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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spooky
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Posted: 8th May 2003 00:51
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MrTAToad: Was pointed to tutorials at RGT and found out that you can use gdi routines (Even floodfill works) but as you say, they only temporarily write to the window and get wiped out by the backbuffer.

First time I've used dll's in db, but surprised how easy it is! Learning something new every day.

Now back to writing a fast crash-proof fill routine...

Gronda, Gronda
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Van B
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Posted: 8th May 2003 01:54
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Here's that flood fill, pixel perfect, it uses the point command so it's all working on the visible screen. It's a little slow on my PC, I'm sure someone or yourself could get it faster.

Only run it in fullscreen with at least 24bit display depth.

Hope it helps, check the code attached, no image supplied, just use any monochrome bitmap.


Van-B
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APEXnow
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Posted: 8th May 2003 02:04
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Someone's already developed a game related GUI, Magic Windows. It's perfectly fine for the GUI stuff.

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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freshalias
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Posted: 8th May 2003 12:48 Edited at: 8th May 2003 12:49
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[b]) SpecTre : On a related note, you should check out www.magicsquare.com/L3/ -> Grandson of "LOGO" language. Not dissing DarkBasic, but this language was specifically created for performing drawing operations. Has it all, line width, fills, animations...etc..etc. Had so much fun with the L3 ide, I even forgot all about DB for some time heh. Real easy basic syntax, easily master this within a day, kids will just eat this up. Full working demo for download, you'll have to download their L3 plugin though to get to the download page.

If the DBS team ever wants to upgrade their 2d command set, I say plagiarize L3's commands
Finally you can brag that your 2d features are even more extensive than blitz3d and visualbasic combined.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 14:11
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RobK ... Visual Basic6 doesn't have printing builtin or anything like that, infact almost ALL of the Visual Basic functions are plugged in from DLL and COM libraries - its how the language works, someone else created the functions which you use today ... they were either developed in VB and exported for it or in C++ and exported for use in it, either way they're about as native as TPFs are for DarkBasic Professional.

i think people need to understand that although a language does have many functions you rely on alot, very very few of these are actual inbuilt functions - they're actually just plugged in code compiled in another language or built and compiled in that language.
Next time you need help, please don't got off on a tangent saying that DBS lied and that this is a 2D MUST HAVE function - because it isn't... essential 2D functions infact only include changing of the Ink colour, printing of a point of that colour (dot x,y) and retriveing of a colour (point x,y) ... everything else is just a enhancements to make your life easier.

perhaps they could've added this from the start - however there is no reason you can't develop your own as a few users have shown you.
As for the printing, we could do with a full Printer APi ... and no doubt TAToad is extending his DLL - but this isn't a simple task, especially as like myself Toad is more used to using MFC which does this automatically from the data you plug into it
setting up the data in a way that the printer can understand isn't exactly helped as there is very little information on MSDN about it.
So please be patient.

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One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 18:57
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"RobK ... Visual Basic6 doesn't have printing builtin or anything like that, infact almost ALL of the Visual Basic functions are plugged in from DLL and COM libraries - its how the language works, someone else created the functions which you use today ... they were either developed in VB and exported for it or in C++ and exported for use in it, either way they're about as native as TPFs are for DarkBasic Professional."

Technically they are not built in, but in that respect, you could say that DBP's Basic3D DLL is not native because it is not in the CORE.DLL. I don't have to add any references to create a printer. I just do

Dim Test = Object
Test = new Printer

And this was out-of-the-box functionality, so I count it as native.

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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 18:59
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Anyhow, I have never found a need for flood fill, I just use sprites. Flood fill can be done via IanM's DBA code. Use that and stop whinging.

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 8th May 2003 19:55
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All good stuff, I'm not whinging just saying what I think! Why is it that some people take it the wrong way, have you read the post's I've made about how good DB Pro is?

Anyway.

VanB the code worked really well, it didn't crash the computer like IanM's code, but did find that on big areas it was taking quite a while for it to colour? Don't know if this is my computer or what?

Gona keep asking the DB team as well, no harm in keep asking, they can only say no, but then again eventualy they might say yes!

Good stuff guys!!

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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Rob K
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Posted: 8th May 2003 22:20
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To be honest, I agree with SpecTre that flood fill would be a useful function, but not exactly a top-priority.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_101.zip
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 22:37
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personally i think priority needs to be on DBO and the core language, making sure it is 100% stable. Then ya'll can call for all the updates on that you like.

to be honest i wish that the team rebuilt the core as and asm language itself which you could use to develop additional functions for it which would be native... but thats kinda just more a pipedream as this version is set in stone really in its dev and i doubt any of the newbies would understand or appreciate the length it'd take the team to create a true programming language.
but perhaps that can be on the wish list for DarkBasic3 that way the language would then and truely have a hallmark to step from as a real language. Probably be taken more seriously within the professional world too.

though, i'd love to know how you got that command out-of-the-box with VB6 Rob ... as from my understanding from what my bro told me it was part of the 400 command upgrade in SP2+ (and he knows alot more about that kinda thing than me)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 8th May 2003 23:00
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I don't think any program can be 100% stable, nice idea though, a completely open language sounds like a good idea though so people could make a native command very easily.

At the moment the flood fills that have been written are not fast enough, still slower than my original program on Amos but thats probably because Amos has the native command which was written in assembler. They are very good though and something I'm not good enough to do yet!!!

Feel it's gettin there though.
Only have to put the finishing touches on my program now, things like paint brush icon as the pointer which I'm going to do with a sprite, 16 in total, dif colour brush tip for each colour being used.
Also got to draw the pictures to be coloured in (starting off with 7 at the moment) and then it's the end credits!!

The fill command can be updated as well as putting print on!
Will put it on my web site when done, as an unfished program at the moment, then you can let me know what you think!!

Will probably get things like, can I have a draw button or a textured fill option!!!!! lol

l8rz

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 8th May 2003 23:34
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Why has this folder gone red?

Noticed that on some other posts.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 9th May 2003 00:18
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'cos more than 20 or so people are replying. Doesn't denote an increase in the quality of replies though...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 9th May 2003 00:20
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Rich - you said there are a few printing DLL's around - aside from myself, who have done the others ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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spooky
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Posted: 9th May 2003 02:57
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Here's another flood fill routine I knocked up that doesn't use recursion:



Gronda, Gronda
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th May 2003 02:58
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Lee wrote the other one. I have it here, I don't think its "officially" released but that doesn't mean I can't release it if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 9th May 2003 15:05
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Nice one Sonic, seems to be a lot quicker than the last but again still crashes the computer after about 2 or 3 fills?
Very odd, is it just my PC that is causing this error?

Fast routine though!



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IanM
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Posted: 9th May 2003 16:26
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I'd like to see that fill routine Rich. I'm always after better/faster ways of doing things.

Spectre, Can you email me the image so I can try running fills on it?
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 9th May 2003 16:33
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Printing as in printing to a printer or printing to a screen ?
With any luck it will be the latter, so I can have complete monopoly on the former...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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