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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] How to NOT modify a DBPro .exe...

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Juso
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:30
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This is a tiny add-on to WindowsKiller's 'How to modify DBPro.exe...', which was just locked

What about running first a tiny prog which checks if d3dx9_31.dll exists in windows/system directory and inserts it there if needed and after that starts the main program (game etc)?

Shouldn't this work?

And dont start fight this time
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:37
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I'm still wondering why the last thread was locked, there was no reason given.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:39
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It's too bad that the other thread became so polluted. I'll say again - I look forward to using this. Most people have DirectX 9, but not the latest version.

We're indie developers. People aren't going to be inclined to download tons of stuff to play our games. Seriously - if I make a small fun game, but the user has to download a 55 mb dx file and a 60 mb PhysX installer, it's highly doubtful that they'll follow through.

The multiple versions of DX is definitely a problem. People still post about this. This 'hack' effectively cleans that problem up. The good part is that it won't interefere with the major version check. If they get version 9, even the wrong one, it will still work.

Here's what a lot of people don't understand - the cores for all 9c versions are the same. There's only one DLL that's different. There will be no lost functionality, no odd behaviors. Rather than calling this a hack we should consider it a manual fix. I'm not too familiar with the way that DBP accesses DLLs and such, but this has taught me a little about it. I'm very interested in packaging the PhysX DLLs in this manner. When I get a chance I'll experiment with it (unless someone else does it first!!!).


Come see the WIP!
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Jane Doe
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:40
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Perhaps my apprehension concerning this whole thing is bourne of ignorance, but when I run DXDIAG.EXE on my computer, under the DirectX Files tab it lists 130 files. This doesn't instill in me a feeling that making sure my program has one correct DirectX file is going to ensure proper performance.

- Jane
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heartbone
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:51
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Another moderator should unlock the other thread.
Or at least provide a sane reason for the lock.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
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Juso
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 18:55 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 18:56
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Maybe there is half dozen 9.0c versions only because the only difference lies in one single file not in 130 files... so lets change the one
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heartbone
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:00
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Quote: "We're indie developers. People aren't going to be inclined to download tons of stuff to play our games. Seriously - if I make a small fun game, but the user has to download a 55 mb dx file and a 60 mb PhysX installer, it's highly doubtful that they'll follow through."


We've been telling TGC that since they decided to change the requirement away from DX8,
even before the Microsoft DX9 version change fiasco.

The end user hassles have not been considered important enough for them to alleviate.
I would not have bought DBP back when if I had known that they were going to FORCE the DBP community to DX9.

Finally, now a few years later,
enough of the PC world is ready for DX9 to give it a go for low end developments,
and FINALLY a decent DBP solution has been found.

And the thread gets locked!!!!!! WTF

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
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Roxas
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:05
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Yes... [b]WTF[/b]

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DarkBIBLE Wikipedia for TGC Users!
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Ric
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:16
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The thread was obviously going to get locked with all the petty arguments going on, as will this one too if it starts up again. The actual application looks like it could be very useful, and just because the discussion about it is locked, it doesn't mean people can't still read it and use it.

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IanM
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:21
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Quote: "Maybe there is half dozen 9.0c versions only because the only difference lies in one single file not in 130 files... so lets change the one"

That's exactly the point. There are the standard DLLs for DX, which provide the COM interface - it used to be that this was all there was.

9.0c was different though. The same set of DLLs were provided to register and provide the interface, but there is nothing behind them except code to load the numbered DLL and to pass other calls on to that DLL.

How does it know which particular numbered DLL to load? The programmer tells it when initialising DX:


The definition of D3D_SDK_VERSION is incremented each release, and specifies the number of the DLL to load.

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heartbone
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:49 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 19:50
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@Ric
1) Any "arguments" seemed over.
2) Small "arguments" are usually not a reason to stop discussions.
3) This is a discussion forum.

WTF needs its own icon.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 19:51
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Quote: "1) Any "arguments" seemed over."

I agree, the arguments had already passed.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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adr
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 20:00
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Quote: "What about running first a tiny prog which checks if d3dx9_31.dll exists in windows/system directory and inserts it there if needed and after that starts the main program (game etc)?"


the_winch made a DLL Injection application which allowed you to execute code from a DLL before the main DBPro application started. So, what you are after is technically possible, but you can't write it in DBPro


I'm superfly TNT
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 20:05
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Quote: "the_winch made a DLL Injection application which allowed you to execute code from a DLL before the main DBPro application started"

The only drawback to this is that it requires compression to be enabled. But, it's a possibility..

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 20:50 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 20:53
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that's not the only drawback... for anyone wishing to distrute a program using either of these techniques... i suggest that they might be well advised to read through the EULA...

ya know, stuff like this is not new... people have been looking for ways to circumvent what on the surface looks like MS abusing it's version numbering of directx for quite a while now...

sure you can just copy the latest dll somewhere, and hope everything works fine... sure you you can 'embed' it into your app as WK points out, then mod the app to fool it into thinking that all is well by not having it actually check for the file...

even if all of that works perfectly, which you're not sure it does, the fact still remains that it is definitely against the EULA that MS includes with its dx runtime redistributables...

you can't just redistribute the dll by itself... and, 'embedding' it into your compiled app can be construed as a form of static linking in some circles, and that would definitely be out the window...

so, again... anyone thinking of distributng an app like this can forget it...

if ya think i'm trying to fudge you around for the sake of making a point, take a look here-> http://www.toymaker.info/Games/html/d3dx_dlls.html


also... i'm not sure of what TGC's position on someone hacking a portion of your compiled app that is in actuality, their code...

i'd be really interested to see what one of the DarkBASIC developers has to say on this topic...

--Mike
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:17
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wrong...

--Mike
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BatVink
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:21
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Quote: "Another moderator should unlock the other thread.
Or at least provide a sane reason for the lock."


The reason is obvious.

Quote: "3.1 Do not...post...any Content that is...threatening, abusive, harassing...or otherwise objectionable

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member..."


This thread is on topic and civil. If it stays that way, it will be a perfectly acceptable substitute for the other. After, it's a valid topic - it just lost it's way last time.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:24
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Quote: "Yeah, sure. Once again everything apart from what you say is wrong. "


it has nothing to do with what i say, or what i don't say... it's not about me at all...

take me entirely out of the picture, and it would still be true...

READ THE EULA...

--Mike
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Lucifer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:35 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 21:38
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Red Ocktober, why do you have to be such an ass about this?


oh praise the lord, praise furry jesus
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:39 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 21:42
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ok... i'll bite Lucifer...

Quote: "Red Ocktober, why do you have to be such a pussy about this?"
because your momma like me that way... she told me so last night... now who's your daddy sweet boy...

are ya happy now Luci...


take note mods, who is starting this foolishness again...

too late Luci, i already quoted ya... delete your entire insulting post, and i'll delete my response...

or do you want this thread to be locked as well...

--Mike
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Lucifer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:41 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 21:46
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Quote: "who is starting this foolishness again..."


from what i see.. you are..

*edited out stuff from this post, i got really pissed off*


oh praise the lord, praise furry jesus
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:42
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Here we go again...

Quote: "take note mods, who is starting this foolishness again..."

Yes, you.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:42 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 21:51
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Quote: "from what i see.. you are..
"

then open your eyes and look again...
you're the one who started the insults kid...

and Benjamin now jumps in, as usual, to get his share of the spanking... be smart Benjy... stay out of this... i've already humiliated you mucho times before... don't force me to do it again...

all i'm trying doing is presenting the facts here...

fact- you can't just distribute the dx dll like this... it is a violatiion of the EULA...

now i know you would rather the world be a place that everything you'd like to be true is... but unfortunately, the world really doesn't care what you like... or what i like for that matter...

deal with it... or don't... i could care less...

but don't take it out on me 'cause i'm telliing you facts that go against what your lil minds would like to believe...

you wanna start callin people names, you'd best find someone else to play with...


--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:50
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Ah yes, but I seem to remember that you have a past record of playing in flame wars as a hobby, making cute remarks, and generally just having fun with it. From what you've said before, you have a group of friends where you "work" who sit around and laugh at your remarks on this forum (when you should be "working").

You sicken me.

As far as this dx9 is concerned though, I'm always perfectly willing to upgrade dx if a game can't run. Why just yesterday I updated my NVIDIA driver. No one should be that lazy.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 21:56 Edited at: 31st Jul 2007 21:57
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i own where i work uncle...

and if i sicken you, good...

funny... you don't affect me one way or the other...

now, go see a doctor... a head doctor... and stop complaining to me... i'm not interested...

this was supposed to be a civil discussion about the topic at hand... i didn't start the flaming... it's the kiddies who can't control themselves, who started this...

be smart... don't join them... don't feed the flames...

--Mike
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IanM
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 22:35
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You obviously can't control yourself, so we'll vet your posts for a little while.

If you have a problem with this, please communicate with me via email rather than use the forums.

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