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Game Design Theory / Does a Music Game Need Music?

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Lucky 13
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2009 00:41
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Hi! I'm looking for some opinions here if anyone would care to share.

I'm currently working on a music management simulator, where you can form a band (or go solo) and write and record music, gig, etc. In short, it would be similar to Football Manager but with a music industry-based theme. However, what I would like an opinion on is this - Does a game like this need to have music?

I've already considered some of the sounds I'll need - i.e. a clicking noise when the player clicks on on-screen item, a confirmation sound when the player confirms an option, a crowd cheering when you've had a good gig review. But do I need to include more than that?

I'm currently leaning towards a "no". Because this isn't a rhythm action game (or similar), the management is the core of the game play, not the music. The music itself doesn't seem so important in this instance. But am I right?

Opinions are very welcome.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2009 01:00 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2009 01:00
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In management/simulation software, it's good to have something slow paced and calming. The Sims is a good example. Don't play music all the time, though, as it will get repetetive no matter how much you include and how varied it is.

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Tom J
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2009 01:05 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2009 01:06
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edit: I'm assuming you're talking about the bands music, and not background music - not clear on that however.

On one side, I personally would be surprised if a music management game had no actual music running when you gigged. On the other, if the music was just from a .mp3 file - hence nothing like what I would want my band/solo artist to sound like - it would be disappointing.

It's a tough call, because the only satisfying music for a band in such a game for me would be user generated (I like control over the little things ) - and so maybe no music would be necessary. It would get the job done, even if a bit unexpected.

How would it work then, would you have text captions like in the ancient version of championship manager we have? :

> "Erics Band" introduce themselves to crowd.
> "Erics Band" play "Fury"
> "Jon Hall" [Guitarist] pulls off a near perfect riff!
> The crowd are fairly satisfied. They want something heavy to mosh to now.
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Lucky 13
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2009 01:44
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Thanks for replying, guys.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was referring to the band's music. However, NeX, your post has made me think that maybe some calm backing tracks could be useful for general menu navigation.

As far as gigs are concerned at this very moment, Tom, the band's skills would be assessed against the set list, club type, audience size, etc. and the player would have three reviews - one from the band, one from the club owner and one from the press. This would allow the player to have some indication of how popular the band is with fans and the press and also have some general feedback from the band about how they felt the gig went.

At one time, I had considered making the gigs into a mini-game but this would require a lot of external media that I'm not entirely confident of producing. If I were to include a mini-game, I think it would either be played with some pre-created tracks in the background or perhaps I could give the player the opportunity to use songs from their own library as backing tracks? Either way, I don't think the result would be entirely satisfactory, as the player's actions would not really be linked to the track that's playing.

Although it hadn't crossed my mind, I guess the old Championship Manager text-based play-by-plays would be interesting. At least the player may feel like they were there, even if they weren't directly involved? There could maybe be opportunities where the set list could change on the fly due to the audience reaction, or maybe the player could choose how to react to stage rush or bat being thrown on the stage? Hmmm… you have got me thinking now, Tom.

Thanks to the both of you.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 21:45
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Artistic things are always difficult.
The way I'd do it would require a lot of media.
I'd have some loops for drum, bass, rhythm, lead, vocals (sim-style "durba-derrb!") in several genres and have a few versions of each that range in accuracy.
The idea then would be you'd have a band send in their tape and you'd listen to the different elements stacked on top of each other and you have to judge how good each individual is. When it comes to gigs their nerves would affect how well they play.

Maybe that would get repetative and annoying once you'd heard the loops a few times, I don't know.
Then you have the problem of what is going to be successful?

How good are you with music? You could write a generator that would create unique music and assess if the notes are in the right key or not to judge how the crowd reacts. MAJOR complicated though!

If I were you I'd make the game without any music and then if the premise works well make a sequel with music.

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.
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Dextro
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 22:26 Edited at: 24th Aug 2009 22:39
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You can do what Wii music did:
Record a set of each instrument in at least 3 octaves, then make a "custom" midi file, i.e an array with notes and duration for each note. Some sort of wavetable.
Let the user choose from different styles (which will have to be hard coded, "loops") for each instrument, mix the output, and there you go.
This approach would let you personalize many options, such as tempo, octave, even instruments; and if know how, even add some effects like distortion or echo.
This approach also requires a considerable amount of media.

Or you could always use a midi file, changing the note values, tempo and instrument, but that would require extensive knowledge of the format.
This one would require much less media, but the quality is not as good.

Edit:
With the first approach, it wouldn't be hard to make a "check" at random against the musicians "skill", and change the tempo a bit to cause an off beat or an off key note; thus reflecting the musicians experience/practice.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 13:09
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Filling in on what Dextro said about midi, I can always advertise my midi plugin, which would let you send midi messages directly to any installed device, thus removing the need to produce your own midi files. Should be faster as well for on-the-fly generation.

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Van B
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 15:41
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I'd probably do something similar to what Obese is talking about, have some different genre loops - maybe enough to make 3 songs in each genre. They wouldn't have to be full songs, just a section that can loop and give the impression that music is being player.

Instead of having bad loops, I would just interfere with loop playback. For instance you might have your drum loop, and depending on the drummers skill, I would introduce breaks by dropping the sound speed then speeding it up. That would make the whole music disjointed - but you would hear the weak members of the group stand out - so improve the drummers skill, or replace him, and the drum loops would improve.

There was a game on the Spectrum called 'Rockstar ate my hamster' which started with you selecting members of the band then sending them to gig, practice, or get publicity. Was quite a funny game, but the music in that changed depending on how good the band is - don't discount the need for music playback - if they did that on a spectrum which only had 1 channel sound through a buzzer. If people can hear their band getting better, then you'll have a more engaging game.

There's lots of loops for small sections of music, look at sites like freesound.org, there's tons of it just waiting. You should try and concentrate on the music that you like, if it takes off you could always add different genre's later.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 7th Sep 2009 23:17
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Well, i think there should be little music related sound effects everywhere, but not necessarily full songs.

If you've played/heard any of the guitar hero or rock band games, you might know what I'm talking about. Whenever you click something, or do certain actions, there's a sound of a chord being strummed or drums being played.

When the user clicks "Play gig" or whatever, then some sound should be played depending on what skill level the band is, and what instruments are in the band. Err, in mah professional opinion
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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Sep 2009 04:38
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Quote: "If you've played/heard any of the guitar hero or rock band games, you might know what I'm talking about. Whenever you click something, or do certain actions, there's a sound of a chord being strummed or drums being played."

That might work well for Guitar Hero but I think it'd get annoying in a strategy game where there's a lot more button clicking.

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.
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