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Game Design Theory / Would this game conversion work? <Jazz Jackrabbit>

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Baggers
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 05:20 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 06:19
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Hey people, ive been doing exams for a while now <ugh A levels> but they are drawing to a close in a couple of weeks and i really think its about time i got a decent project going, and im thinking Jazz Jackrabbit 3D conversion, I have already writen a physics system, particle system and pathfinding, but its the feel i need

This post is here as i need to get some feedback on how you think 2d games have been converted well into 3D, as far as platformers go...
e.g. i always found Mario to be pretty good, but it still wasnt quite the original.

What im asking, especialy to those who enjoyed jazz jackrabbit, how do you think the levels should be designed to best keep the feel of the original ... however dont limit yourselfs to jazzy, if you got any other 2D conversions you think worked well yack about them here.
Thats all folks, thanks


<Edit> ahh #### a dog somebodies already making one !... never mind, ill probably still try anyway !

<Double edit> hold my horses ! it seems to have been canceled ! it was gonna be an adventure game anyway, im sticking to platformer
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Baggers
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Posted: 13th Jan 2005 20:08 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2005 22:47
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Right done a little bit more research and a restatement of the problem is below.

I have also had a go at making some of the items from the game in 3D, yeah i know not much but in crud at modelling and ill be requesting help with that soon, the main idea was to see that the items could work in a 3D environment.
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Van B
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Posted: 13th Jan 2005 21:13
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For me, the only game that really retained that platformer feeling is the Crash Bandicoot series - they handled it by using narrow paths instead of platforms as such, like disapearing platforms for instance and nice big enemies would help keep that feeling. The 3D Sonic and Mario games seemed to change a lot, they became more puzzle orientated, there wasn't much left of that original fast skillful gameplay that you get with well programmed platformers.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
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Baggers
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Posted: 13th Jan 2005 22:41
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Thanks Van, yeah that gameplay is exactly what im talking about, thanks for the narrow path ideas..will defiantly have a go at doing them, that works well inside buildings but on the outdoor levels it would require some hard work so it dosnt feel to restricting.
Anyone else got ideas ?
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Bobbbygd
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Posted: 15th Jan 2005 15:05
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I have only one thing to say, when you finish the game, send me a demo or something at Dr_Frankenstien@hotmail.com

And yes, I do think that this would be a very good conversion.

Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration - The Litany Agaist Fear
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Baggers
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Posted: 17th Jan 2005 05:30
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Better than that mate ! if i get it all done ill release the whole lot open source with an editor for level design. Only thing is my poor ability with modeling...hopefully soon remedied as i have a request in the recuiting board now... so heres to hoping !
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2005 16:43
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Your models look pretty good though, certainly look like their 2D counterparts which is the most important thing. Maybe you just need someone who can tidy the textures up a bit - I strongly suggest that you make the fiddly bits yourself, like the moving parts for instance.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
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Baggers
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Posted: 18th Jan 2005 02:55
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Hehe, the reason i have only made those model is that i cant really do anything more complex, in the time too make a little model I can get much more done in code. Really its the characters and textures and images i will have a problem with, the thing about them is im currently just using the game screens as textures and this is too low quality, hence the request for help...but in the mean time i can keep up work with the code, which is going well, got the tampolines, health, all sorted...and the collision routine is nearly done, just fine tuning...took suprisingly little time. Just without the right look so much style is lost.
Your right about alot of moving part though, especialy the rotating platforms, they are all handled by code.
Ahh back to work !
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Baggers
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Posted: 18th Jan 2005 09:17 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2005 22:48
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Hey there, a couple of screenies to show one of the moving platforms in game, excuse the lack of rabbits and a good level !

http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic1.jpg
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic2.jpg

However another question, this time about camera, do people prefer a Fixed tracking camera which the computer controls without your aid, or a more 'Kingdom hearts' style the camera looks at you and follows but you can rotate and move it.
If you prefer having the camera controllable, how much control and what would you prefer to use to control it (eg: which keys etc...)
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Violet CLM
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Posted: 19th Jan 2005 09:50
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Hey, nice. I was just doing my occasional "search for new sites" activity, and stumbled upon this. What I can see looks good, and I've got a few links for you.
Jazz Jackrabbit 3D FAQ - The FAQ for the original Jazz Jackrabbit 3D, might be worth looking at for ideas.
(A lot more screenshots from the original, again, could be useful.
Jazz Jackrabbit Community Forums We would love to hear from you directly about this project. Fangames are always encouraged and you seem to have some skill in the field, and we are all going to be eager to tell you exactly what should or shouldn't be in this game.
Finally, you might want to take a look at the Razz Arena game in progress. (Site seems to be down right now) They seem to have a lot of models already, if that becomes an issue later on, and it might be interesting to have other 3D developers to communicate ideas with.
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Baggers
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Posted: 21st Jan 2005 08:34 Edited at: 21st Jan 2005 08:34
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Wow, that was un-expected, a brief visit to those forums then ! spread the word ! hehe
ps.Got inertia sorted now, sliding is live !
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Wiggett
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Posted: 21st Jan 2005 14:46
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nice work on thsi game baggers, the pirates game im working on is gonan be hell of similar, its a platformer where you collect items by jumpign on diff movign platforms much like game slike pandemonium, rayman and crash bandicoot 9as mentioned earlier) but i'd like the level design to still be rather open so maybe a bit like banjo and kazooie. and like you we have got the basic movement and health dmage/heal code worked out, the coder is gonna start work on making a level editor to place the platforms and traps items and enemies soon. maybe you two would like to chat? robtronx@hotmail.com if you have msn i can add you. good work on converting those objects to 3d, they have come up nicely, specially that purple one.

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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2005 23:09
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@Uber: Thanks yeah your progress sounds just like mine, ive gotta get going on that level editor, it will make life much easier.

@All:
Hey Folks, just a quick update. A new screeny and a little video (sorry for the quality !) just to show a little movement and hopefully inspire some more ideas.
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3D-Video1.avi
http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/JazzJackrabbit3DPic3.jpg

Currently im looking to rewrite the Camera code, has anyone any ideas on how this should behave to be of most fun and use, Any ideas or game examples welcome.
Thanks again
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Wiggett
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2005 09:20
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holy crapnel! that looks really well done movement wise, i take it with teh camera chang eur goin for a more rubbery camera that takes a few seconds to re align itself behind the character like in most 3d platformers, cause that might look a lil better than the rigid camera. but seriously i love that collision and movement you got goin there. looks top notch.

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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2005 19:13
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Thanks man, yeah collision has only the occasional hicup and as im typing this I think ive just figured out how to stop that ! Yeah I was planning to do the camera just as you said, the rabble on the Jazz Jackrabbit Forums think that camera style would be best aswell.
Thanks again for the great comments! Ill be Back soon !
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Baggers
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 06:58 Edited at: 26th Jan 2005 07:01
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UPDATE AND NEW VIDEO

Hey people, this is my second attempt of writting this post, lost the first one when browser went back when i didnt expect it to...but enough of that rambling, heres what ive been up to:

* Firstly ive been experimenting with the camera, and for now im only smooting the y-rotation as having the camera follow the y movement smoothly can result in the character going off the screen or it just being plain hard to judge jumps.

* Ive been working on an 'Animated Scenery' routine, which now works perfectly, this means i can easily set up animation for objects that are part of the level, such as moving platforms and such. In the Video both the rotating plant/lift thing and the moving platform are running on this routine, the later using the waypoint function.

* The last big change isnt shown in the video but is a 'Trail System', this records where an object has been and its rotation for the last x-period of time, the values are automatically updated and easily retrived and i will be using it for effects such as the one shown bellow.


And now the Video !
Http://www.unseenconcept.net/JazzJackRabbit/Jazz3d-Video2.avi

Ok people, please continue the comments they do really help, and anyone wishing to help in the form of models or textures please pop over to the team requests board.

Any ideas on what i should concentrat on next? what would you like to see in this game? do you have any opinions on how 3D platformers of any kind should behave?....Post your views here !

Thanks again people
Chris

p.s. The video is a little slower than the actual game due to the slow down due to fraps.

p.p.s Do you think this is ready to head over to WIP ? I hate those who dont have anything but a concept, the problem i see with mine is the graphics. What do you think ?
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Wiggett
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 08:39
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are you claudius McCrazy? course this is ready for a wip, heck i put stuff in the wip when it's only models and a two minute test engine

by the way that video is retardedly good looking, the camera still seems to not move much, but it does look a bit smoother when it follows. and i reckon for the final game have some low poly grass or leaves, or even little daisy flowers like in the image above on the ground to give it more atmosphere. I'll rack up some low poly ones for ya soon.

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Baggers
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 04:12 Edited at: 28th Jan 2005 04:21
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We have now entered the WIP world, check out progess there, feel free to keep giving ideas either here or there, but if you would post over there it saves me from updating this anymore...Again thanks so much for helping getting this project off the ground...let the game really begin

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=47042&b=8

@Uber: the pics i tried to email you will be on the site and you will find the link in your email, and possibly on the WIP thread aswell!
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Balthazar
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Posted: 9th Feb 2005 15:37
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Since your not that good at moddelling (No offence), do you want me to help, i have been moddelling with maya for years (5 to be precise), and i would be glad to send you something. Unfortunately, i suck at textures. I would not want any profit at all. The only thing id hope to get would be a free copy

Lemony Snippets for Lemony games
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Baggers
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Posted: 14th Feb 2005 17:09 Edited at: 14th Feb 2005 17:13
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No offence taken! yes i would love for you to help with this project and as for the free copy, that will definatly not be a problem as the entire game and editor will be open source!
What models would youlike to start on? I have some really basic ones for scenery and such that i really need doing so if you fancy those then just say and i'll mail all the reference pics to you. If this is a little too dull for you though I can send some other pics like enemies.
Thanks Lemony !
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Balthazar
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Posted: 21st Feb 2005 16:46
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Great! Send me some basic drafts of some stuff you want me to do, and viola! And also, nothings too dull, id love to do anything you send!

<Press any key to continue> Which ones anykey?
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Baggers
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Posted: 21st Feb 2005 22:06
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You have mail Balthazar !
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Balthazar
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2005 04:16
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Sooo, what sort of scenery?

<Press any key to continue> Which ones anykey?
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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2005 21:08
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Well the scenery was the less exciting bit, its all the trees and things, bushes, dancing flowers...oh have you got the game?...if not try this demo http://www.download.com/Jazz-Jackrabbit-2-demo/3000-7563_4-887151.html
as you will get the idea of some of the bits i need.
I have just mailed you the file full with pics of scenery bits. Of course feel free to do any of those enemies aswell !
Thanks man
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Balthazar
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 15:50
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You can get it fully off abndnwre. They no longer hold copywright to the game.

<Press any key to continue> Which ones anykey?
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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 16:53
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Really where ?
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zircher
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 23:29
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Balthazar, I don't know about where you live, but in the US copyrights last for many decades. You don't lose them unless you sign them away or you're in a work for hire situation (and thus never have the copyright to begin with.)

Abandonware merely exists in the minds of the user as a dodge against being called a software pirate. Their only protection is obscurity and a general lack of interest in prosecuting the hosts of abandoned programs. They have no legal footing unless the original copyright holders have given them permission to redistribute the software.
--
TAZ

From the US code...

Quote: "
TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 3 > § 302 Prev | Next

§ 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 1978

Release date: 2004-04-30

(a) In General.— Copyright in a work created on or after January 1, 1978, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and 70 years after the author’s death.

(b) Joint Works.— In the case of a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for hire, the copyright endures for a term consisting of the life of the last surviving author and 70 years after such last surviving author’s death.

"


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000302----000-.html

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 23:46
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Ok, maybe not then !
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zircher
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 23:41
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It's still available at those sites. A quick google for "jazz jackrabbit abandonware" will turn up a bunch of links. I just wanted you to know where you probably stand legally.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
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Baggers
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 23:49
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Ahh it's ok .... the game im referencing from is Jazz JackRabbit 2.
Though i may get the first one anyway.
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