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FPSC Classic Product Chat / How To Remove 1.85 GB Mem Cap (Tutorial)

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Adman
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Posted: 18th May 2011 15:19
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Hello there,

This is my first post mostly because I haven't had anything good to say until now I was getting the pesky 1.85 gig cap mostly because I was making a large outdoor level. While I was doing this I figured out the solution that does not glitch any part of the game and will not crash...

Before you start, it would be wise to have at least 4 gigs of RAM, otherwise you can risk a system crash, this isnt harmful though, just a small reboot then youll know better next time.

1. Backup FPSC-Game.exe found in the root FPS Creator Folder
2. Download a CFF explorer such as the one found at http://www.ntcore.com/exsuite.php
3. Open FPSC-Game.exe in the CFF explorer by going to File>Open
4. Go to the path on the left of the screen: NT Headers>File Headers
5. On the bottom of the list that popped up on the right should say Characteristics, on the right of that row says Click Here... Click There
6. A list popped up, find the checkbox labeled App Can Handle >2GB Address Space
7. Download this Setup.ini editor
8. Run this then go to the tab named Build
9. Uncheck Enable Memory Cap
10. Click OK

Congratz! You can now have a map as large as your RAM will allow! NOTE: 32-bit users still will have a cap of 4 gigabytes! 64-bit users can have a map as ridiculously overkill as they want!

I hope this helps resolve that pesky 1.85 gig cap. I know it was pissing me off xD

Good luck,
Ad-man

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Deathcow
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Posted: 18th May 2011 15:55
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@Adman

Welcome to the forum.

32-bit limit is only 2GB from my understanding for 32-bit Operating Systems. Have you been able to confirm that it allows you to build maps in and around 4GB?

I don't have 4GB in my system and would have no way to test it.

DC

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Sting
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Posted: 18th May 2011 16:23
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Adman is right deathcow, x86 users now benefit from 4gb usage rather than the old 2gb cap however, this still depends on OS version, some limited windows os versions have lower caps, however XP Standard, Vista Basic, and Win7 Standard have 4gb support. But you would never be able to utilise this, you would only ever utilise 3-3.5gb as the buses are only 32bit wide.

x64 as Adman said, the user can have a field day with as much as they want!

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xplosys
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Posted: 18th May 2011 16:30
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It's my understanding that while 32bit Windows can address up to 4GB memory, it is split into core memory (Windows) and application memory. A 32bit application cannot access more than 2GB memory which is why the memory cap was set below that... to keep the program from crashing as it runs out of usable memory. Removing the memory cap can and does cause FPSC to crash on large levels.

Anyway, that's my understanding of it.

Brian.

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Sting
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Posted: 18th May 2011 16:54
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Brian, the 2gb limit isn't true in this sense. The 4gb is split between the app and windows, optimally it will typically reserve 50/50 split (giving the impression of 2gb limit) but this can easily be bypassed using the 3gb switch, allowing for more memory usage from applications!

However, I wouldn't recommend this without seriously tweaking your system to act like a 'development' system rather than a home use system as it can cause sluggish behaviour if the OS needs more than all it has allocated.

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xplosys
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Posted: 18th May 2011 17:03
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Sting,

You can move the split between OS and application memory by altering the boot.ini and yes, it depends on the system and whether you have an Intel or AMD processor and what type of each. Simply changing the setup.ini in FPSC will only make your large levels crash the program. I was simply explaining how Windows and FPSC works.

I would caution users to be very careful if you intend to alter your system this way.

Brian.

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Sting
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Posted: 18th May 2011 17:14
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Agreed. I wouldn't recommend this off the bill and to be fair I am glad the cap is there (to a degree) as it keeps designers on their toes to develop memory efficient maps.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 18th May 2011 17:38
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My experience with doing this has lifted the cap, but once the build process goes over 2g the process bogs down and never finishes building.

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michael x
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Posted: 18th May 2011 18:56 Edited at: 18th May 2011 19:31
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or just get a 64 bit system patch fpsc and call it a day. going through all of this is not safe. this is why i try to see how many of us really have a fast computer. but instead of people posting there system specs everyone thought it was a way for people to heck in there computer. threads like this is the reason why i made that post. so lee can see how of us is running a fast system or a 64bit. we would not have to worry about things like this if most of us are running 64bit systems. if fpsc was 64bit ready it would run a lot better than now. little things like this would not be a problem. so if my game was made on the 64bit system and patch. i wonder how many of yall can play it? guess i will never know until the time comes. i know computer are not cheap but if we are really series about creating a game with this program a upgrade is a must.fpsc was create for low end pc at the time is was made and fpscx10 was create for high end pc. so would be fun if we could that performance that fpscx10 is able to have. just think about what Im saying nad you see how it makes since.

this fpcsx10 process fps 478


fpscx9 process fps 60


more than what meets the eye

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That Guy John
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Posted: 18th May 2011 19:01
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Quote: ".fpsc was create for low end pc at the time is was made and fpscx10 was create for high end "

*facepalm* Let's not start this conversation again, please. Nothing personal, but I think there are enough threads going back and forth on this.

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Sting
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Posted: 18th May 2011 19:08
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@michael x - the main positive people should be using with the cap is using this limit to create memory optimised maps in FPSC. The engine has only just started coming out of infancy imo, and x64 doesn't mean that much yet, even today. I have an x64 Athlon yet I stick to x86 WinXP SP2 for all my developments and have never run into any issues. FPSC x10 wasn't created for 'high-end' machine, it was created to utilise DX 10 effects, but now FPSCx9 is advancing so rapid, DX 10 isn't needed.

FYI, there is no physical danger of 'hacking' your system in any methods mentioned or most methods, they're only software tweaks, the only physical threat would be if someone induced a thread on overclocking cpu's or gpu's.

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michael x
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Posted: 18th May 2011 19:40
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@That Guy John
not putting down fpscx9 or saying x9 vs x10 in anyway. what i mean fpsc can do a lot more than what it does know.

@Sting
yes i know that i too have a 32bit as well my 64bit. i know x10 isn no longer in the running im just try to simply say fps x9 can go beyond where it stands.

more than what meets the eye

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That Guy John
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Posted: 18th May 2011 19:42
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Quote: "fps x9 can go beyond where it stands"

True and I think it will very soon.

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michael x
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Posted: 18th May 2011 19:54
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@That Guy John
thank you for understanding. I am very happy with 118 i think it has all the effect you would ever need. i want fpsc to have the good performance to handle all those effect and large levels. that is my point to this.

more than what meets the eye

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defiler
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Posted: 18th May 2011 20:00 Edited at: 18th May 2011 22:22
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I don't mind the mem cap, I see it as a fun challenge to make a cool good game while not going over the budget.

By budget I mean the memory cap.

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Gencheff
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Posted: 18th May 2011 20:29
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@michael Capped framerate vs. Uncapped framerate...you make your conclusions.

I also like defiler's approach on things.


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Adman
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Posted: 19th May 2011 03:19
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To answer the debate about the caps and the safety:

There is no way this can harm your system! It can crash your computer however if you have a 32 bit system and a 3.5 GB map (or something around there)or if you have a system that has a memory amount within .5 GBs of your map.

As far as what Sting said earlier about the memory-efficient maps, he has a point but this is good if you have a map that needs a little extra elbow room, you can always check the actual memory amount, and I wouldn't recommend going over 2.5 GBs unless your planning to make a game for high-end PCs

My opinion on Dilfers comment is that he is very correct, it is a good challenge to make a good game that has low memory usage, but it is very difficult to make a good one that is outdoors and/or large, so this is good for those kind of maps, which is why I needed this in the first place, for an outdoor map.

Also my opinion with the GFX Int. in FPSC x9, I say we need it before 1.18 is released, they should drop everything and just get it right away. This wont satisfy the community members or the devs so I hope it at least comes in 1.19

Thanks for the intrest in my tut!

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Soviet176
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Posted: 19th May 2011 04:30
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To be perfectly honest, the tutorial is nice and all. But what we really need is lee to kind of optimize the engine in 1.19 so we wont have to be using methods like these. But thats my 2 cents.


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Thraxas
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Posted: 19th May 2011 06:03
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Quote: "To be perfectly honest, the tutorial is nice and all. But what we really need is lee to kind of optimize the engine in 1.19 so we wont have to be using methods like these. But thats my 2 cents.
"


I don't see what Lee is meant to do while people still have 32bit machines.

It was supposed to be a monkey / kangaroo fire-breathing hybrid. And it would be 70 km tall, and keep a giant laser in it's pouch.
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Adman
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Posted: 19th May 2011 06:43
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It would be nice if it had a built in option to auto edit the CFF and remove the 2 GB cap in the INI, that way people dont have to go softmod the program, it would do it in an option. It would also have to explain the crashing problem where the RAM gets within the .5 gig mark of the total ram, otherwise everyone will cry. lol.

Thats my 2 cents.

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michael x
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Posted: 19th May 2011 07:54
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Quote: "I don't see what Lee is meant to do while people still have 32bit machines."


that my point right there. lee can not push for a fpsc64 when most of us have 32bit or still using xp. if does know that most of us is using a 64bit system why would he even bother making fpsc64bit. the same with the performance if most of us use low end graphic card have a single core and using xp. why he upgrade for the very few that has high end? people would loose interest in this program if there computer could not run it. no one will not upgrade for that reason. so in a saying if it ant broke dont try to fix it.

more than what meets the eye

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 19th May 2011 10:58
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Quote: " "I don't see what Lee is meant to do while people still have 32bit machines.""


Well he should make a separate version for 64bit users.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 19th May 2011 11:21
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Quote: "Well he should make a separate version for 64bit users."


Which of these version get's updated first? What if something will only work in the 64bit version? Does the 32bit version get left behind like X10...

I don't think it's a feasible solution to have 64bit version.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 19th May 2011 19:32
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Quote: "I don't see what Lee is meant to do while people still have 32bit machines."

Actually, I think most 64bt based apps can still run on 32bit systems.

Quote: "Well he should make a separate version for 64bit users.""

NO!
You want another totally different piece of software to work with, no less, give Lee another massive project to build and maintain? Insanity...
In the future, near or far, 32bit systems will be a joke and something we chuckle about when talking about nastalgic technology, but we are no where near that point yet. So, there is no reason to put effort into a brand new project for the developers or us as end users.

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Soviet176
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Posted: 19th May 2011 23:37
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Quote: "I don't see what Lee is meant to do while people still have 32bit machines."


No no Thraxas. I don't mean a 64bit version. Look at crysis 2 for example. Thats a 32 bit game. And its Dx9. I mean optimize the engine so that it does not reach the 2GB area. Kind of like Frostbite or crytek or really anything else.


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Adman
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Posted: 20th May 2011 01:46
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Quote: "No no Thraxas. I don't mean a 64bit version. Look at crysis 2 for example. Thats a 32 bit game. And its Dx9. I mean optimize the engine so that it does not reach the 2GB area. Kind of like Frostbite or crytek or really anything else."


We desperately need GPU int (And other optimizations). I hope to see this in 1.19. Id love to see it before 1.18 is released but unless they planned to and have been working on it for a while thats unrealistic to have the dev team to make GPU int in that little time.

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Wolf
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Posted: 20th May 2011 01:53
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Quote: "I mean optimize the engine so that it does not reach the 2GB area. Kind of like Frostbite or crytek or really anything else."


I don't think that that is going to happen in Dark Basic Professional.



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Soviet176
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Posted: 20th May 2011 01:57
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Quote: "I don't think that that is going to happen in Dark Basic Professional."


Yea. I can understand that yes its just I would like to see it at least optimized so that we can make one large outdoor area on the grid we have now. Thats really all, nothing to the extent of frostbite or any of them.


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Adman
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Posted: 20th May 2011 05:48
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Quote: "Yea. I can understand that yes its just I would like to see it at least optimized so that we can make one large outdoor area on the grid we have now. Thats really all, nothing to the extent of frostbite or any of them."


Yeh I mean even the optimizations x10 have as far as GPU int. and crap, if they can port it to x9 that would be exellent

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 20th May 2011 13:48
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I have a stupid question. I was under assumption that the limit was for the entire game build, but with the way it seems some of you are typing is the limit per level or something instead?

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Wolf
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Posted: 20th May 2011 13:52
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Quote: "I have a stupid question. I was under assumption that the limit was for the entire game build, but with the way it seems some of you are typing is the limit per level or something instead?
"


Your gamebuild can be as large as you want it to be

Its the size of every level...lets say, It should not get over the 1,85 gb. This usually happens while its building the lightmaps



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Defy
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Posted: 20th May 2011 14:52
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Well said Wolf.

Also to add to the subject, loading times of such levels is a factor to consider. Some may not find this a problem.
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 20th May 2011 16:17
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Thanks Wolf I've never had any problems with size, so I just never knew. That's still a relief in the long run at least

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Adman
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Posted: 21st May 2011 00:24
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I have new great news, I made a 3 GB map, built it, and made a friend with a 32 bit OS try it and another friend who only had 2 gigs of ram try it. It both works very well! The person who had 2 gigs of RAM said my map took a little bit to load and slightly more sluggish for him then a map 1-2 gigs but it was fine for him.

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