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bjadams

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Joined: Sat Mar 29th 2008
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 2nd Jan 2013 23:06     Edited: 2nd Jan 2013 23:07     | link | toggle

Many AGK users have expressed the wish for Linus support.

Ubuntu seems to be revving up these days....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cpWHJDLsqTU
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erebusman

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Joined: Sat Jul 23rd 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posted: 5th Jan 2013 19:45           | link | toggle

From a perspective of MacOS / iOS and Android are all unix/linux variants .. it seems to make sense that Linux should be something that should be possible?

I'm not personally clamoring for it ; but I would very much like it if it was.

I would very much like to develop for Linux ; I think one thing that its missing is a larger base of applications id Software used to release on linux but they stopped after quake 3 arena .. i assume it wasnt big enough for them anymore once they got so huge?

But if I had a top 10 list of things to vote for for AGK I would say polishing out the feature set is a bit more important.

For instance on Android there is no way to stop music for your App when it goes to the background. I can't ship a game on Android for this reason. ( see my thread here on that topic : http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201614&b=46)

So Android is a huge platform but if my app keeps playing bloody music when its sent to the background that makes the customer pissed off and they will have to force quit or de-install it if it pisses them off bad enough. This would give me bad ratings on the marketplace and then I'd earn a reputation for being a novice developer who makes crappy apps that dont stop when they are told to?

See what I mean .. we need the feature set polished off more than we need another platform?

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Daniel TGC

TGC Support


Joined: Mon Feb 19th 2007
Location: TGC
Posted: 5th Jan 2013 20:21     Edited: 5th Jan 2013 20:22     | link | toggle

Approximate desktop usage as of december, http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp I use these statistics as most Apps these days are downloaded, and this is an approximate set of values covering users who use their devices to access the internet.

81.3 of the market goes to Windows based platforms.
8.7% of the market goes to MacOS
4.7% of the market goes to Linux based platforms.
2.2% of the market goes to mobile OS's

When you consider that the lions share of the market belongs to windows, that becomes the first obvious priority for support.

The next most popular is MacOS which is also supported.

4.7% goes to Linux. Now linux is a tricky one for several reasons.

1) There are various competing distributions, which should be supported? The two major ones are Debian and Fedora. With various other versions split between Open SuSe, Ubuntu, and there are yet more systems such as Arch Linux. That 4.7% is split across so many distributions, and several core bases.

2) Most linux users expect stuff to be free. This isn't a well established market place for paid for apps. Even apps with adverts are typically avoided by the community. Ubuntu is one of the few that comes with any kind of app store system.

The smallest portion of the market 2.2% seems to goto Mobile OS's.

The mobile OS market, iOS and Android mostly do very well with app sales. It is a heaven for indie developers, several small groups have become influential thanks to these market places.

I know that TGC would love to support every possible market place out there, but at the moment TGC supports the 4 most profitable markets for indie developers. I'm not sure anyone would really become a success using the pretty limited Linux marketplaces.
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Seppuku Arts

Valued Member


Joined: Wed Aug 18th 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 5th Jan 2013 21:05     Edited: 6th Jan 2013 11:17     | link | toggle

However, people are starting to try and appeal to the Linux market. There were some popular indie titles that made the jump to Linux and now Steam has a Linux section of its store and Unity3D 4 will deploy to Linux based system and of course, the Torque Game Engine has supported it for years. I think Valve is trying to push more for Linux and I think they could do it with some success given the kind of weight they can pull, I know the guy in charge isn't a big fan of the direction Microsoft is going and was pretty open about that fact with his opinion of Windows 8. There's only 41 Linux titles on Steam, but it's a good start, but Steam did start supporting Mac and its titles has soon grown since then.

Personally, I love Ubuntu and the good thing with Linux is that whilst there are different distributions, it doesn't mean you're writing for different OS's. Personally I think I would like to see Linux get more attention, it's a lot more user friendly these days and an idiot could get used to using it - particularly with some builds.

Hopefully we do see growth in the Linux market, I'd certainly boot up my Ubuntu more if there was. It'd be great to see AGK support in it too, but of course there's a lot of systems out there TGC could support, but I think Daniel puts it fairly, they've got to think in profitability...not just for themselves but their users. Maybe one day TGC will announce AGK Linux.

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Daniel TGC

TGC Support


Joined: Mon Feb 19th 2007
Location: TGC
Posted: 5th Jan 2013 21:20           | link | toggle

I agree, but the priority isn't really supporting linux but improving the core language, all this has to be maintained across multiple platforms as it is. I'd rather have better features for the more established market places, then slow TGC down. Of course I have absolutely no say in development! The dev team my feel different.

The biggest issue with developing for linux is the various installation methods, FPM, vs DEB vs Pacman or even just raw source code. That's four different build and package methods right there, and four extra systems for the dev team to load.
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Impetus73

AGK Developer


Joined: Sun Aug 28th 2011
Location: Volda, Norway
Posted: 5th Jan 2013 22:23           | link | toggle

I expect Linux to get a higher percentage, now that the horrible Windows 8 is out... It's virtually useless on "normal" computers, good for touch or gesture enabled devices.

Should it not be possible to make android apps, run in linux, with some kind of converter layer? The extra overhead will be ignoreable, due to the higher power of normal PC's over handheld devices.

The first Linux phones are also around the corner, so I guess they will have to have an app store too, increasing the demands for apps.

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Daniel TGC

TGC Support


Joined: Mon Feb 19th 2007
Location: TGC
Posted: 6th Jan 2013 00:05           | link | toggle

TGC took a bit of a gamble with Meego another linux system sponsored by intel. As you all know it pretty much failed as a phone OS.
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bjadams

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Joined: Sat Mar 29th 2008
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 6th Jan 2013 14:47           | link | toggle

However horrible Windows8 is, the future of Windows is WinRT and right now AGK does not generate WinRT code, but Win32.

So I think that AGK has to make the move and support WinRT before even delving into Linux.

And there are other markets too. A number of developers had some good success on PSvita through PSN.

Still Ubuntu on TV and Mobile, if it ever becomes that popular, can shift the Linux scene in favour of Ubuntu
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bjadams

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Joined: Sat Mar 29th 2008
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 6th Jan 2013 14:48           | link | toggle

Quote: "TGC took a bit of a gamble with Meego another linux system sponsored by intel. As you all know it pretty much failed as a phone OS."

True Meego was a failure.
Was it free for phone manufacturers?

Ubuntu Phone OS will be free, which makes it a very good candidate for the Chinese market to start off with
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DVader

AGK Developer


Joined: Wed Jan 28th 2004
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 6th Jan 2013 18:00           | link | toggle

I think TGC would be better getting existing platforms working 100% before even considering a new one, and then I would imagine there are more important systems than linux to support. Linux really is just a fringe OS for home users. It will never take off in a big way. It is only for tech heads and web servers really It may take off on phones, but then again probably not. I have heard many times over the years that Linux is becoming a threat to windows etc, it has never really got close. Even fairly competent Windows users tend to find Linux horrible.

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JimHawkins

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Joined: Sun Jul 26th 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 6th Jan 2013 18:18           | link | toggle

I'm sure that any sufficiently desperate and competent programmer could produce a Linus AGK version. I'm also sure that about 0000.1% of people would give a damn.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AGK FOR PASCAL
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AgentSam

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Joined: Wed Mar 14th 2012
Location: Virtual Space
Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 09:20           | link | toggle

Jim - 0.1%... of the people on the planet? That's HUGE! XD

(A decimal in the wrong place?)
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JimHawkins

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Joined: Sun Jul 26th 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 23rd Jan 2013 10:46           | link | toggle

Whoops!

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AGK FOR PASCAL
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TyJBr2

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Joined: Thu Jul 30th 2009
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 25th Jan 2013 14:02           | link | toggle

I would also like linux support. I use Ubuntu but sometimes check out the other top distros. Anything debian based would be the way to go. There's an app store. Support the desktop before the mobile.
I just got AGK about a month ago and noticed it had meego support.

http://www.appgamekit.com/documentation/guides/53_meego.htm

It could build an rpm of some sort? Could that be installed to any rpm based distro? And or could that be converted to a deb with Alien http://www.howtoforge.com/converting_rpm_to_deb_with_alien and installed to a debian distro?

I've been watching distos on distrowatch http://distrowatch.com/ since 2006 and Ubuntu stays in the top 3. On the right side down the page some.



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Ancient Lady

AGK Master


Joined: Wed Mar 17th 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posted: 25th Jan 2013 15:40           | link | toggle

While the documentation still shows Meego and Bada, they haven't been supported since about v1065 and are no longer listed as the platforms supported.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AGK Master
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bjadams

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Joined: Sat Mar 29th 2008
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 26th Jan 2013 19:49           | link | toggle

Now even Steam seems to be moving all operations over to Linux in the soon coming future

http://kotaku.com/5973617/report-valves-steam-pc-getting-2013-reveal-runs-on-linux
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sovr

AGK Developer


Joined: Sat Jan 2nd 2010
Location: USA
Posted: 27th Jan 2013 23:53     Edited: 27th Jan 2013 23:55     | link | toggle

As soon as agk supports java+opengl there should be no problem with linux support since java runs on all os's. There might of been someone who has said this before. I have been waiting for agk to come to java (not just android) for desktop/laptop use.

edit: agk does support opengl... just referencing the agk website.

hello there!
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Naphier

AGK Developer


Joined: Sat Oct 2nd 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 28th Jan 2013 02:26           | link | toggle

I think it would be awesome to have Linux support, but until Steam releases their console, is it really worth it? There are Android based gaming devices popping up left and right. I really think that Android should be the focus, though I'd really like to see HTML5 or Java porting so I could put a game on Facebook!

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kamac

AGK Community Tester


Joined: Tue Nov 30th 2010
Location: Poland
Posted: 28th Jan 2013 14:22     Edited: 28th Jan 2013 14:22     | link | toggle

Quote: "though I'd really like to see HTML5 or Java porting so I could put a game on Facebook!"

Isn't that what freedom engine is for?

Follow me on twitter! @MotionStruct
Motion Struct blog
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Naphier

AGK Developer


Joined: Sat Oct 2nd 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 29th Jan 2013 01:27           | link | toggle

Java and HTML5 have been on the target list for AGK since day 1.
Freedom engine has some pretty severe limitations.
I've yet to be impressed with the performance of Freedom engine.

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sovr

AGK Developer


Joined: Sat Jan 2nd 2010
Location: USA
Posted: 29th Jan 2013 07:41           | link | toggle

freedom engine is HTML5 but not java. The thing is though the java that tgc are working with is I believe an applet. Since I understand a great deal in programming with opengl and java I would probably alter the code to run on a java application (if possible... unless all they have are .jar). I also agree on the limitations of freedom engine, since I have trouble doing virtual buttons and http commands on it.

hello there!
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kamac

AGK Community Tester


Joined: Tue Nov 30th 2010
Location: Poland
Posted: 29th Jan 2013 12:59           | link | toggle

You must realise that Freedom engine is still in it's quite early beta, and is missing many features. As time passes, they will be added.

I believe TGC has decided to go HTML5 route, rather than Java. I remember that there was some discussion over it, whether they should pick one or another.
Though, I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Follow me on twitter! @MotionStruct
Motion Struct blog
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JimHawkins

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Joined: Sun Jul 26th 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 29th Jan 2013 16:37           | link | toggle

The standard is HTML5 + JavaScript.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AGK FOR PASCAL
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mrmango

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Joined: Fri Jan 22nd 2010
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 3rd Feb 2013 00:28           | link | toggle

I am sorry but I have to reply to this! I have been a long support of your products, but you need to stop the early 2000 style response to Linux support.

Forget the useless statistics, they do not show a true picture of what is going on in the land scape right now.

Linux is not tricky in terms of what you support. Support Ubuntu, as it has the biggest share of the market place. Providing a .DEB package or generic binary package alone should suffice. The Arch etc users have already got Steam working without issues. So support the biggest portion and the others will work on porting the package. Additionally creating a standard binary installer like some companies have done will also help.

Again this is a view of a poorly researched response, Debian and Fedora are *not* the most popular and have not been for a very long time. Ubuntu is (yes some people don't like it) becoming the choice for desktops on Linux and some of its downstream distros like Mint too. Again support Ubuntu and many other distros like Mint will work fine. Yes and again Steam is already doing that.

"Most linux users expect stuff to be free" This is insulting and quite frankly wrong! Gaming on Linux is bigger than ever and is just growing month by month. We want to pay for games and the Humble Bundle shows that. If a platform can support development on games, you'll just end up with more business as indie developers flock to a working development SDK/AGK. On the Humble Bundle Linux users on average pay over $10, compared to Windows and Mac users paying around $6 for the bundle. The days of just seemingly free loading on anything that does not cost money does not convey the average Linux user.

Assuming that all business models work on software app stores is also wrong. The Windows platform has worked well for years without one, with Steam etc performing the game side of game delivery, if people prefer to go down that line. Being that Desura and Steam now have working support for Linux games, does this not sense to get in on it?

Unity, a major gaming development platform, yes at the moment does not allow development on Linux, but port straight out to Linux natively have realised that Linux is only going to get bigger and people are prepared to give out their cash. Torque already do too.

After all this, what I am saying is the comments are outdated and frankly wrong. If you don't at least allow for export of games to Linux, then you are losing out on a market place that will only get bigger. Indie developers will just go for other means of making their game. Check out Kickstarter, which you yourselves are using for re-writing FPS, games support Linux over a certain amount or even straight out of the door.

Please don't ignore the Linux market place..

Quote: "Approximate desktop usage as of december, http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp I use these statistics as most Apps these days are downloaded, and this is an approximate set of values covering users who use their devices to access the internet.

81.3 of the market goes to Windows based platforms.
8.7% of the market goes to MacOS
4.7% of the market goes to Linux based platforms.
2.2% of the market goes to mobile OS's

When you consider that the lions share of the market belongs to windows, that becomes the first obvious priority for support.

The next most popular is MacOS which is also supported.

4.7% goes to Linux. Now linux is a tricky one for several reasons.

1) There are various competing distributions, which should be supported? The two major ones are Debian and Fedora. With various other versions split between Open SuSe, Ubuntu, and there are yet more systems such as Arch Linux. That 4.7% is split across so many distributions, and several core bases.

2) Most linux users expect stuff to be free. This isn't a well established market place for paid for apps. Even apps with adverts are typically avoided by the community. Ubuntu is one of the few that comes with any kind of app store system.

The smallest portion of the market 2.2% seems to goto Mobile OS's.

The mobile OS market, iOS and Android mostly do very well with app sales. It is a heaven for indie developers, several small groups have become influential thanks to these market places.

I know that TGC would love to support every possible market place out there, but at the moment TGC supports the 4 most profitable markets for indie developers. I'm not sure anyone would really become a success using the pretty limited Linux marketplaces. "
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Luca91

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Joined: Sat Sep 1st 2012
Location: Italy
Posted: 3rd Feb 2013 03:27           | link | toggle

mrmango you are 100% right. A linux elf binary deploy is really what AGK need ...
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The Daddy

AGK Community Tester


Joined: Tue Jan 13th 2009
Location: Essex
Posted: 3rd Mar 2013 21:57           | link | toggle

Emm interesting.

I thought AGK had an OGL backend anyhow so it could deal with s many platforms...after all DX is win only!

As the backend is OGL then i am sure using Lazarus Free Pascal the jump is closer than you think!

Constantly seeking!
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Digital Awakening

AGK Backer


Joined: Tue Aug 27th 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 3rd Mar 2013 22:26           | link | toggle

I would love to possibly get my game on Humble Android Bundle in the future. I have bought a few of these myself. Only platform AGK doesn't support is Linux. I think Humble is a great way to get publicity. And these things pulls in tens of thousands of buyers and hundreds of thousands of dollars to split among developers, charity and Humble.


Demo 3 is out now!
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Naphier

AGK Developer


Joined: Sat Oct 2nd 2010
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posted: 3rd Mar 2013 22:32           | link | toggle

Just got a complaint from a friend that I was developing in everything but Linux...
Would be great to have Linux support here!

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Digital Awakening

AGK Backer


Joined: Tue Aug 27th 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 6th Mar 2013 09:53           | link | toggle

For those interested in Humble Bundle. I just got an email for the 5th Android bundle. 11h ago and it has already has sales of over half a million USD. And over 76'000 people have already bought the games. Head over to the site to see how it works, and check out the demo movie on top.

http://www.humblebundle.com/


Demo 3 is out now!
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calder

User


Joined: Wed Apr 24th 2013
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 24th Apr 2013 10:34           | link | toggle

I have been a Linux user for 10 years and I have no problem paying for apps (I recently bought AGK just to try out AGKPas, which I think is an amazing piece of software). Most people I know choose Linux not because it's free, but because it lets you get the most out of your computer without the fear of lawsuit just because you "reverse engineered" a screensaver. I agree in 100% with mrmango - you may not support Linux if you don't consider it a profitable market, but you should be aware that Linux users are in much larger percent "techie guys" than average desktop users.
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JimHawkins

User


Joined: Sun Jul 26th 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 24th Apr 2013 12:12           | link | toggle

Since Lazarus and FPC work fine on Linux, porting AGK for Pascal should be possible.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AGK FOR PASCAL
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easter bunny

AGK Developer


Joined: Tue Nov 20th 2012
Location: Your Worst Nightmare
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 02:31     Edited: 27th Apr 2013 02:32     | link | toggle

if I recall correctly I was running the AGK demo with Wine on Ubuntu a while back. (then again, I might not have been, my memory isn't the best
so it's possible to code on Linux, and every Linux user shold have Wine, so they can just run AGK apps that way can't they?

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Ancient Lady

AGK Master


Joined: Wed Mar 17th 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 20:45           | link | toggle

Running in Wine is not running in Ubunto. Wine is a windows simulator (sort of) for Linux.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AGK Master
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