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2D All the way! / Platform game advice?

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Ant
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 15:07
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Hi all I have searched for advice on a good 2d platform tutorial and so far can\\\'t find one. Are there any good ones out there and if not why ?

Maybe someone could at least explain the basics of where you would start, do you use tilemaps, what about collision, how to build levels, scrolling screens!

I know very little about programming and would appreciate some advice on this subject. I have attached some code below which I think is a poor attempt.................

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Alien 001
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Posted: 8th Dec 2006 10:54
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you start programming the menu. You want to make the game but an good programmer startes with the menu. It could be an very simple but you can change it when you have time.

For the game i normal start with an very simple snippet to check how you want the player to move. Then add the map to it. For the map i would use an tile grid. The collision should be sprite collision. About building the level you can use notpad for an start. Check the snippet for an demo level.



Where 0 is an blank space and 1 is an block.
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 01:13
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I would suggest you make your normal background images and a second image with simple boxes the color of your ground etc. make a memblock from the second image and delete the image and the memblock to compare your sprite to for proper collison and to keep from calling a ton of sprite collision checks.

http://www.cafepress.com/blackarrowgames
Check out my great stuff here
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darknut
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 19:24
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Someone really needs to write a good tutorial on 2D platformers. I gave up on my platformer project because I had trouble finding decent tutorials or articles for any language. No one cares about 2D anymore its all 3D.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 9th Dec 2006 23:52 Edited at: 9th Dec 2006 23:53
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Alien, you definitely dont start with the menu. Menus, Graphics, Sounds, and options that dont get the game's basic gameplay defined as a "platformer" should always be added last.

The first step would be to associate yourself with 2D, figure out all of the commands you'll need for a basic game. Then you'll need to get sprite movement down, jumping, then move onto collision (box collision would be fine), then you'll want to scroll the background with the character if the map is larger than the screen, then probably move onto getting a goal into the game (for example, lava is rising from a volcano and you have to escape, the fastest escape time wins).

Once the core gameplay is complete, then you'd move onto getting the graphics down, if you're a good graphics artists you could do it yourself, however you could also post a WIP thread with your progress. People would see you're serious about the project and help out.

If anything, menu's would come last.

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Alien 001
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 15:38 Edited at: 13th Dec 2006 15:40
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RUCCUS ... you should start with an basic menu to select which level to test. You can do this in the code but i like haveing the option.
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Tifu
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 21:22
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yeah but all you really need for that is "press 1 to open level 1, press 2 to open level 2" if all you're doing is very early work. That is how I usually start. But I wouldn't call that a menu.


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Ant
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 21:39
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Hey Guys Thanks for all your advice.

I have been looking the subject up but can't find any good tutorials that work, or are easy to understand. I have come up with this code and hope it is along the right lines and maybe with your help we can get it to work?

I only ask that if you can help, that you explain everything in lamen's terms as I'm such a noob!!!!!

I don't really understand the relativeTileX - Y section in the code, and I can't seem to figure out the correct code, to select the tile image I want with the mousebuttons, so an explanation on that would be a good place to start.

Also I have tried to implement some form of collision based on what tile the sprite is on, but I can't get it to work. I take it that is box collision?

My debugging section is just a guess, so any advice there would also be good.

Anyway here is the code.

Thanks !!!!!!!

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:11
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Quote: "RUCCUS ... you should start with an basic menu to select which level to test. You can do this in the code but i like haveing the option."


You should start with the actual game not the menu. If you can't get the game the way you want then there's no wasted time making a menu.
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Ant
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 22:37
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What I said in my last post about relativeTileX - Y, I also meant to include TileX - Y, so basically how you go about selecting the tile with the mouse and then how to increase and decrease the tile number with the mousebuttons.

Thanks !!

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 13th Dec 2006 23:47
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Quote: "RUCCUS ... you should start with an basic menu to select which level to test. You can do this in the code but i like haveing the option."


No.
Quote: "
You should start with the actual game not the menu. If you can't get the game the way you want then there's no wasted time making a menu."


Yes.

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Ant
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 00:15
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Ruccus I think grog was quoting Alien 001 not you! Anyway I think we have now established it's best to start coding the game !!

So could you guys maybe help me out ?
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Tifu
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 17:52
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I'll have a looksie at the code, see if I can fix the scrolling/mouse selection thing at least for now


Blackmoth Entertainment
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Tifu
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 18:36
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Hm, the relativetileX thing confused me, i'm not sure what it was for... I put in simpler code there, that seems to work fine. But it's possible I don't get what it was meant to do...

The collision you coded wasn't working because it was checking the grid value of the mouse position, not the player. I coded a simple little block check function which I like to use. Using a function is good practice, because then the same function can be used by the player, enemies etc. to check if a path is blocked. Hope it all makes sense... the only changes I made should be at the mouse part and the added function after the player input bit.

Oh and, I added some extra debug text...
The RelativeTileX and RelativeTileY variables aren't used anymore I think, but PlayerX and PlayerY (the players location on the grid, rather than the position of the sprite) have been added.



The way it seems you're doing things though, is that the level itself is moving, rather than the player moving. Which works well enough, but it's not the way i'd do things. In most platform games, the camera will only scroll along the level when the player approaches the edge of the screen. I could try and incorporate that if you like?


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Ant
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Posted: 14th Dec 2006 18:52
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Hi all!!!!

Thanks for the advice Tifu, I know what you mean about the level scolling instead of the player, but I'm trying to work this through in small logical steps, so I have a better understanding of how it all works. But yes I would be grateful for an example of how it could be done.

Then hopefully I can make my own functions, or ask for help with them later on. For now I would like all the code to be incorporated in the main Do Loop.

I was playing around with the Tile X - Y variables and came up with this, which works!

Quote: "
TileX=((mousex()+(cx*32)+32)/TileSize)*1.0
TileY=((mousey()+(cy*32)+32)/TileSize)*1.0
"


Any advice from anyone else would be gratefully recieved, as I need all the help I can get.

Although not too much as to confuse. I'm still learning to walk you know!
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Ant
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Posted: 16th Dec 2006 20:50
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Hi guys

I have tried to implement jumping in the code, which I can't seem to figure out either! Could anyone please offer any advice ? Or has anyone got a good example of code ?

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Ant
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Posted: 17th Dec 2006 13:03
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Still not right!

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Alien 001
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 11:57
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I have made an demo of an 2d platform game. I only spend 1 hours on it and it show. But the basic are there. It does the collision useing the logic way. In the attachment there is the code and an demo map.

Ant... it should help you with the basics. if not let me now and i will make another one.

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Ant
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2006 20:37
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Hi alien 001

Thanks for your demo!

I had a quick look, and it's a little bewildering at the moment. But I will look at it in more depth over the weekend, I'm sure something in there will help me out.

If anyone else is interested in this subject, which it appears they are

Pizzaman made an excellant demo of tile based collision as follows........

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Ant
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Posted: 24th Dec 2006 14:45
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Hi all!

Merry Christmas !!!!!

Still can't figure out box collision very well. But I have included my latest code in the hope that someone might be able to explain to me in more depth how it all works and how I go about setting up my collision point variables.

Also I'm not too sure about oldx1, oldy1 variables. Are they in the right place in my code, have I used them correctly.

Thanks !!!!!!

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Ant
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Posted: 24th Dec 2006 22:13
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Just keeps getting worse, can anyone explain to me the principles of scrolling a screen and how to control the speed.

Also if I make image number 10 twenty pixels high and then use it for my sprite, why does it look the same size as the tile?

And a general explanation on the principles of jumping and collision would be nice too!

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Zergei
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Posted: 25th Dec 2006 06:19 Edited at: 25th Dec 2006 06:21
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Modified quite a lot of your movement and collision functions...
It's not bug free, as i've seen some oddities from time to time, but it's something i made up in 3 hours, post 12o'clock, that is christmas....



Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 25th Dec 2006 12:32
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Hey thanks a lot Zergei

Don't suppose you could explain to me in lamen's term how your collision works. I can't seem to visualise how box collision works.

Then there is sliding collision and probably others could anyone give any examples

And I know it's a bit of a noob thing to ask but can I stipulate x and y variables start at 1 without having to take -1 away when I paste the image.

This only works if I take (x-1) away:




Yet this one works in Zergei's code, could you please why?



Also could anyone explain to me how to implement code for scrolling
Thanks!!!
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Zergei
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Posted: 26th Dec 2006 11:44
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Quote: "And I know it's a bit of a noob thing to ask but can I stipulate x and y variables start at 1 without having to take -1 away when I paste the image."


Not really sure what you mean by that, but have in mind that i changed "dimensionx" and "dimensiony", by substracting 1. The reason i worked it out that way, was because you weren¿t taking into account position 0, in the array.

Quote: "Don't suppose you could explain to me in lamen's term how your collision works. I can't seem to visualise how box collision works."


Ain't got much time now, so i'll explain it fast...

First of all, the collision a worked out. It basically return the type of tile (the value representing its collision), when called. You have to specify a x,y value. It'll grab the value and transform it so it finds at what position of the tile map it is.

About the movement. First of, i put the sprite command within it, so it actually corresponds with the players function. Now on to moving, it checks collision in the comming points, for where tha player will move. As the player as a certaing height, checkin just on 1 point would't work well.

Lets say your player is walking to the left, where would you check collision?.. on the left of course... but where? upperleftcorner? , lowerleftcorner? , middleleft? ... Well, it depends on how high your player is, in acordance with the tiles on the map. In this case, the player can reach a max of 3 tiles high, and just 2 tiles width. So for horizontal collision i need to check 2 corners and the middle (that is all the options listed before).
If all three are collision-free, then the player moves. If a collision is found, then it calculates the closest x,y coordinate to the collision tile, so that the player won't go half way in the wall.

Falling. Gravity is the key here. It checks just as explained above, if there's something besides a floor/wall (whatever), if there's none, then it starts increasing y by little (that is falling), until it reaches floor/wall, by detecting its collision.

Jumping, same thing as above, but set jump# (which is the variable in charge of making you fall), have a -6 value so you'll ascend. As there is no floor/wall when ascending, it starts adding to the jump# so you start falling, wich will occur when it reaches a positive value.

Reaching the celling. Just checking if the upper part of the player hits a celling/wall. If so, same thing as above, finds the closest position to it and sets jump# to 0.

Oh yeah, i took out of the loop the call to loadlevel() and image(), because it's a loading process unneeded to be done every loop.
The line "x=sprite x(1) : y=sprite y(1) : w=sprite width(1) : h=sprite height(1)" is just for debuging purpose.

That as most as i can explain for now... if later on ya need help just ask.

Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 26th Dec 2006 17:59
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Hi Zergei

I haven't got much expierience in programming at all so when i learn something I try and stick to it.

I thought when dealing with arrays you had the choice of starting at either 0 or 1 and have included a piece of code as an example which hopefully you will understand.

As I'm not really sure what I'm on about now!!!!! lol

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Zergei
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Posted: 26th Dec 2006 21:49
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Of course you can chose where to start using the array. If you wish you can make an array with 105 positions, and just use the last 5. Of course that wouldn't be wise...

The thing with not using the 0 value in arrays, is that you end up wasting resources. Ok a 1 array position may be nothing, but think of it with a 2 or 3 index array, like "dim x[50][50]" , wich may easily be used as a map. If you go check on in you'll see that all positions with 0 are not used, thus [0][0]..[0][1]..[0][2]..(and so on) and [1][0]..[2][0]..[3][0]..(and so on). Adding all of those get to 102 positions not being used (that is 51x per 1y , and its 51, because its start at 0 ).

About that code, well it's "not" working accordingly because of a simple reason... It's not coded to work with the 0, actually, if you used on the above it would work either.


OK, here it starts at 1, so 1*48 = 48 , right?, if thats the position you want it at, then its perfect.

Here, 0*48 = 0 ... mmm if you wish it to appear at position 48 just as above, just change the mathemathical expresion, easy. To get with x = 0, just add 1 to x -> (x+1)*48 -> (0+1)*48=48


On this one i really don't understand what is to achieve. If it was either a quick way to check the above stated, or something else...

By the way, the following is a line that it is not even used...
"dim boxes(10)"

Whatever the case, the line above will create an array with 11 positions, that is: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
if ya count it shows that their 11.

Anything else you'd like to ask?... just...well, emm... ask

Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 27th Dec 2006 00:25
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Thanks Zergei

I think I'm just getting confused with arrays really, and probably need to read some more tutorials on arrays and collisions to try to get to grips with them all.

Maybe I'm just keen to jump ahead without really understanding the basics. Arrays and collisions are my main bugbear and I just can't seem to grasp the concept fully.

I understand the principle, and maybe in time it will all fall in to place, but for now I will just keep experimenting and hopefully get some help from you guys when I need it. I also really need to finish reading Hands on Darkbasic Vol 1

But if anyone can offer any advice, I would really apreciate it.

Thanks
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Ant
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 00:27
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Me again!!

I've been trying to create my own collision point around my sprite, and I think I have managed to create the left and right bottom collision points, but any advice on working it out would be greatly appreciated.

Also I have tried to implement scrolling, but it is too fast, any way of slowing it down, or maybe a better way to do it? And it seems to mess up the sprite collision. An explanation of what is wrong would be great

Thanks!!!!!

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Zergei
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 21:52 Edited at: 5th Jan 2007 21:59
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About collision, just check the last program i gave you. It shows preatty much of it, thought some bugs regarding slidding. Howerver if you got any question about it, just ask, thought screaming for help won't do. (I'm not saying you did, just commenting)


I've managed some scrolling on your code. Take a look at it and ask. This time you did quite well i must say. Any doubts of it? just ask



Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 23:59
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Hi Zergei, once again you save the day!

Hey and thanks for the compliment!

I was under the impression that by using two arrays, one to store the grid and the other for the display, was the best way to make a tilemap, obviously if I had 1000 tiles along the x-axis it would be an awful lot of tiles to paste to the screen at once, instead of just adding them as I scrolled to the right and deducted them as I scrolled to the left. The problem is your version works well and mine doesn't work at all! lol

And I can't figure out how to implement the way I want to do it. So which way is best?

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Zergei
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 03:49 Edited at: 6th Jan 2007 03:58
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Oh, sorry about that, i just forgot to do that part. I left it like that because i cared more about the scrolling than the map printing onle whats visible.

Still you only need the array that contains all the map, and tell it to print only those who are on screen...



I added a cls to clear the screen, and di a "set sprite" as to turn off backsave, as to save processing time (which equals to more speed, and you'll notice it ).

Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 6th Jan 2007 22:39
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Wow Superb stuff!!!!

Thanks Zergei, now if I only understood exactly what you have done that would be great! lol

If you could explain the latest changes, and the conditions of if left or rightkey()=1 then I think I might be getting somewhere.

And maybe some ideas of what to try next!

What about levels? Do I use labelled data statements, or do I have to read them in, from an external source like notepad? ( Bit advanced for me at the moment but just so I know).

Anyway thank you so much for your help so far!!!

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Zergei
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 02:15 Edited at: 7th Jan 2007 02:16
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Ok, this is some explanation about it...



"tox" will be set with the right-most-tyle that will appear on the screen. For example, let's say that the rigth-most-tile is 20, as you move to the right (and the scenary scrolls), it will rise to 21, and then 22, and so on. It will rise as you change from on tile to the other. Just do some maths about it and you'll see it does just that.

So this variable will tell me the right-most-tile, which is alse the limit tile i want when printing the map, that is the one used in the "for loop".
Just in case, i put an "if" statement, because if you reach the end of the scenary, this variable will have a value higher than the arrays index.

Ok, now, the "x" in the "for loop" is set with the left-most-tile, that is the first tile.

As "cx" is the "camera x" or "offset x" (choose wichever you'd like), by doing "cx/32", you get the distance but in tiles, so returning the first (left-most) tile.

Pasting the images is mostly the same, thought substracting "cx" to "x" assures that the tiles will move when scrolling.



Now, on to the movements stuff. On the first "if" (desides the ones checking right and left keys) i check if the right-most-tile does not exists (if your pressing right, for left it's the left-most-tile, but i'll refer for the right key here).

By exist, i mean that there is or not a tile whithin those coordinates. If no tile exists then we reached the end of the map according to what scrolling is, not movement.
I also check if the player's x is lower than the screens middle (that's what sm has, "screen width() / 2" (for left it check if its greater than sm!!).

Now the reason i check for both of this is because what comes next is the command that allows moving, so those on the "else" section are for the screen to scroll.
I move the player when modifing "x1", and check if again (this part can be fixed so to just check once) there exists no tile on the rigth-most, if so, then i set "cx" to the value that will position the scroll on the far right position. (for left it sets "cx" to 0, as thats the position)

Now, if the firsts condition (the ones that lead to moving) are false, then it scrolls by modifing "cx".
By the way, there where some parts where you positioned "cx" wrongly. Remember that "cx" stores pixel distance. By doing "cx/32" your getting the tile value of "cx", that is on wich tile "cx" is if it's value where a coordinate. So basically you should add tiles to tiles, and pixels to pixels.

You coded this -> tilemx=(mousex())/32+cx
where "(mousex())/32" will return a tile position and then you're adding "cx", a pixel value to it. So no good results from it.
You could either do -> tilemx=(mousex()+cx)/32 or tilemx=(mousex())/32+cx/32
Both of those do good, as the first will add pixel to pixel and then transform it to tile, while the second one do tile + tile.

Well, things thats most of it.

Regarding maps... you should make some kind of level editor, that will save and load maps from files. I would go for .txt, but thats your desicion. i've already made one thats got the basics working, so i could help you on that, but don't expect of me to do all the work.

About what to do next (besides tha map editor).... no clue.

Further on my stuff at...
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Ant
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 20:25
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Thanks Zergei!!

I have read your post, and kind of understand where you are coming from. I will have a play with the code and try out a few things, to see if it dawns on my marble head exactly how the hell it all works. But thanks for all your input so far!

Getting time to code, and trying to learn this stuff is my main problem, and I'm no young spring chicken anymore, so the brain is willing but doesn't quite absorb information as easily as it used too! lol (Although it never did!!!)

Thanks !

Ant

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 16:15
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Here's an tile scrolling engine I did awhile back.

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=codebase_view&i=a4c8368a3859cb0ed738047a9b88cbc6

You can easily turn it into a platform game like Mario by simply adding gravity.

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Ant
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 18:44
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Hey thanks Phaelax

I have looked at your demo before and I must say I hardly understand any of it! lol

No it's just I'm new to 2d, and I find it a little overwhelming, I like playing around with code and getting flamed for my poor attempts !!!

Anyway it's too easy to copy someone else's hard work, but I probably will end up using a combination of all the code that's been suggested so far.

I have posted another attempt, which someone might like to have a look at, and maybe advise me on how to correct some of the bugs or poorly coded sections!

Thanks



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Ant
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 16:59
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Hi All ! I have tried to work out the collision and jumping code. This is my best attempt so far me thinks lol

Anyway when jumping how do I stop the sprite sticking to the side of the platforms, also when landing on a platform, the player doesn't always land correctly (He sometimes land one pixel height above) Why?

I could really do with some advice on how to implement collision and jumping correctly, in lamens terms!

Hope someone can help!!

Thanks!!!!!

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Indigo
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 18:58
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I'm currently writing a tutorial covering most everything you need to know to program a 2d platformer in DBpro. keep your eyes peeled.



-Dan

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Zergei
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 21:56 Edited at: 18th Jan 2007 21:59
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Quote: "Anyway when jumping how do I stop the sprite sticking to the side of the platforms, also when landing on a platform, the player doesn't always land correctly (He sometimes land one pixel height above) Why?"


Both of those are due to that your player is returned to it's old position en colliding. Instead, regarding falling, you should check which is the nearest pixel to the collision section (the floor in this case).
With the wall happens that as the player touches the wall, it returns to its previous position, wich may likely be next to the wall, just imagine as the floor case.

Sorry, but won't be modifing your code as in the upper posts i've done this, and i'd just copy/paste it in your code as to make it work.

@Indigo
Thats nice, i was also going to work on a tut to make some 2d side view game, but i still can't find the time to even think about it.

Further on my stuff at...
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daod
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 04:56
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dude i can help im a nerd at this i know everthing so ask away!!!!

haga
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Ant
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 00:20
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Hi all!!

It's been a while since my last post, and I'm none the wiser. I haven't had a lot of time lately, but would really apreciate any input at all to do with platform games.

Can nobody start a decent, easy to understand thread on the subject? Please?

Thought I'd add my latest pathetic attempt at a game! Any ideas on sideways scrolling platforms, and coding collision for tile based games would be greatfully recieved!

Thanks!!

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Zergei
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 04:31
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I was working on some 2d platform game, and was planning to do a tutorial over it until i reach the story and events parts (that is to cover most basics).
Problem is, i can barely keep up with the stuff i need to do at work, so until i get some spare time, i won't even be thinking of it.

Sorry, this time i won't be able to help you that much, unless i finish this up and nobody helped you by that moment. Hope not.

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Ant
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Posted: 16th Mar 2007 20:32
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Hi Zergei

Thanks for the reply, I haven't done a lot since we spoke last, but have included my latest attempt, which you may be able to help me with, namely controling the "game over" sequence.

Also if I wanted to position coins above my platforms, what would be the best way to do that?

You can also see that I'm still using my naff collision detection. I really could do with an extreme, noob, lamens terms lecture and some helpful examples about how to achieve it properly and also tilemap collision in general. So if anyone would be willing, I'd be extremely grateful to try and learn something new

Anyway thanks again Zerg !!!

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Ant
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 11:07 Edited at: 17th Mar 2007 11:15
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Latest update with game over sequence working correctly I think

Still need some major advise on collision, when the player reaches the part of the screen which starts the page scrolling, it is not detecting collision correctly, could anyone please remind me again as to why this happens?

And I would like to place coins above the platform for the player to collect. Some ideas on coding this section would be appreciated!

Thanks !!!!

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