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3 Dimensional Chat / Mudbox vs Silo vs Mudbox

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SamHH
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Posted: 28th May 2007 01:43
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Normal maps are playing a big part in everything and i was wondering which program is worth it to invest in. silo is dirt cheap zbrush is a bit pricey and mudox has two options commercial or noncommercial.
so i would like your opinions.
thanks
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SamHH
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Posted: 28th May 2007 01:46
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darn it i said mudbox twice when i should have said zbrush one of the times
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2007 11:26
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Silo 2 is dirt cheap yes, I don't know it's full capabilities, it is pretty stable though. - I've played with the demo and it is a good tool. - It sounds great for displacement mapping, I don't know about normal mapping though. Plus it has no texturing tools (but it has a decent UVMapper)

Zbrush has a student version - which is cheaper (Only restriction is you're not allowed to use anything commercially)- Has a good normal mapper and I think it may be good for your normal mapping needs

http://www.escapestudios.co.uk/?page=34 - I think this link is for Zbrush 2's student price, but you should be able to email Pixologic about any for version 3.

As for Mudbox, I don't know much, but I've heard awesome things about it, - some people say it's better than ZBrush, others say worse, so essentially it's in the same league.

It is about £50 cheaper thab Zbrush for Student/non commercial use but more expensive for commercial use.

http://www.escapestudios.co.uk/?page=59

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
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hessiess
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Posted: 28th May 2007 12:16 Edited at: 28th May 2007 12:17
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blender has sculpt mode now

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Raven
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Posted: 28th May 2007 14:57
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what i personally prefer to do is create a high-polygon model in my modelling application for the main bulk of visible depth mapping; so say like to outline major details, or such.

then for more intricate details, i simply paint it in photoshop then convert to a normal map. you'll find more often than not this provides you with exactly what you want, especially as you can then edit it further for a specular map.

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SamHH
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Posted: 28th May 2007 16:52
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well silo seems be behind in texturing but maybe because its so darn cheap.Zbrush is second cheapest and Mudbox is up there in price.
@Raven thats a good workflow, but part of the reason i was asking about these 3 programs is because they are sculpting programs and painting programs.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th May 2007 19:50
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The thing that makes Mudbox so (apparently) good is that it is built primarily for high polygon sculpting, whereas Zbrush isn't, more of a sub-feature, for 3d painting, for instance, it doesn't have a real 3d viewport, but instead a sheet of pixels that contain depth information, a 3d piece of paper if you will, which if anyone has tried using, would know that it takes quite a bit of getting used to, make one mistake and you could very well have ruined your model (or flattened it to the canvas)

but it is good, because of that 'unique' style of rendering people have apparently gotten 1 Billion polygons running in ZBrush 3 real-time with a new 'HD geometry' format

i don't know too much about it, but if you are looking for performance, or the possibility to go into ultra detail without cut downs, go with Zbrush.

Whereas apparently with Mudbox you can just jump straight away and start sculpting easily, its laid out simply for that purpose.

Ive never tested Silo, but it looks nice.

I'll be upgrading to Zbrush 3 very soon, it is absolutely awesome, and apparently has a real perspective viewport, as well as real-time soft shadows and some amazing materials. (e.g clay )

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2007 22:02
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Quote: "would know that it takes quite a bit of getting used to, "


I wouldn't say it takes too long, but every body is differant as people find Blender easy to grasp and I find it a pain in the neck. In Zbrush you do have some sort of 3D space, your objects will rotate and any sub objects attached to the object (In ZB3) once you have all of the parts of the scene made you can start placing each bit on the canvas to make your scene (You objects are stored as tools you can bring up later) - you don't get the real time scene interaction, but the way the program works has its advantages and disadvantages.

Yeah you guessed it, the demo and I have an intimate relationship - but she's so fine and sexy and she performs well - I've just falling in love with her, think she'll hate me when I stabbed her in the back by marrying Zbrush 3? I know women can hold a grudge for too long and never let you forget anything...like now if one was reading over my shoulder, she wouldn't let me forget me being sexist right here.

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th May 2007 22:22
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Quote: "as people find Blender easy to grasp"


they probably say that to look cool

hehe, j/k but my point remains, its not a 'true' 3d package, it does everything perfectly fine, but not on the inside

HOWEVAARR!!

Zspheres...nuff said, awesome.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2007 22:54
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Quote: "hehe, j/k but my point remains, its not a 'true' 3d package, "


Indeed, that's why they call it a mix of 2.5d and 3d (as well as the pixol)

Quote: "Zspheres...nuff said, awesome."


Indeed, makes the modelling part easy as pie, all you need to do is adjust polygons with a brush and perhaps use the edge loop tool.

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
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MikeS
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Posted: 28th May 2007 23:25
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While blenders sculpt tools are pretty limited, but for the price(free) I can't argue. I'd say first try out blender to get a feel for what sculpting tools are all about, and then if that doesn't work for you or isn't enough, go ahead and look at zbrush or mudbox. Personally, I like to use wings3d to make my model, and then sculpt it in blender. This is essentially, where silo comes into play, if you want to do your modeling and sculpting all in one package. It really(Silo) is a great program for the price.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
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SamHH
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Posted: 29th May 2007 02:50
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i've used blenders sculpt tools. does any one know if silo can do normal maps?
thanks for all the replies(i wish my fpsc worker had gotten as many)
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ionstream
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Posted: 29th May 2007 05:23 Edited at: 29th May 2007 05:23
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Blender can do normal maps, what you do is you set the "Nor" tab (for Normal) in the "Map To" settings of a Texture is the Material buttons. Screen:





Edit: Arg, I just realized that he asked if Silo can do normal maps, not Blender. Ah well, maybe this will be useful to somebody!

That's not as bad as you think you said.
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greenlig
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Posted: 29th May 2007 09:46 Edited at: 29th May 2007 09:47
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I use blender for my sculpting stuff. That said, I haven't done much, as I have always modelled everything in via box modelling.

I did a test today and sculpted a head. About 90% done so far...


Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro

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SamHH
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Posted: 29th May 2007 13:43
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Quote: "Arg, I just realized that he asked if Silo can do normal maps, not Blender. Ah well, maybe this will be useful to somebody!
"
lol i bet it will
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hessiess
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Posted: 30th May 2007 00:31
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blenders sculpt moad is going to be upgraded in 2.5. its supost to become full fetured!

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Person99
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Posted: 30th May 2007 10:05 Edited at: 30th May 2007 10:07
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Hessiess is right, the next planned 2.# update is supposed to fully upgrade the sculpting system to be more like Zbrush.
(Which won't be long, considering that Blender is open-source and gets updated every 3 weeks or so.)

Quote: "hehe, j/k but my point remains, its not a 'true' 3d package, "


Really now?

People call Milkshape 3d a full 3d package, and Blender can do everything it can, and then about 20,000% more.

People call 3ds Max a triple of a full 3d package, and Blender one pedestal below it.
The only reason I can see for that is that Blender's vertex-face system is a bit of a pain.

And for the price difference, I will stick with Blender.

I really don't see where Blender isn't a "'true' 3d package".
Several commercial movies have been made in blender, 3 of them hit the theatres in 2005 and 2006.
A short film is featured on the Blender website, and I have to say, it is pretty dang good.

The only problems with Zbrush are that it costs money, and is not for Linux (Yet).
If you can afford Zbrush, ditch blender (Well for about 10 seconds until it updates AGAIN.) and get that.

Who will die first?
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 30th May 2007 20:53
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Quote: "I really don't see where Blender isn't a "'true' 3d package"."


i was referring to ZBrush and its unique rendering technology.

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greenlig
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Posted: 31st May 2007 05:35
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Lol @ person99

Read the post again...he was talking about Z-Brush.

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
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MikeB
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Posted: 31st May 2007 22:37
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I have a question.........

Is it worth learning blender??

I've seen awesome models come out of it.... but I've seen the same for anim8or (what I'm using at the mo).

I tried milkshape but didn't like the way it worked.



E.D.

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5Louiz
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 00:30 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 03:09
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I do not recommed ZBrush or Mudbox unless you have a high demand of detailing. I tried these programs. I found ZBrush the most stable, fast, rich and easy to use. But if money is a decisive factor, know that Mudbox is powerful enough for heavy projects too. I did not try Silo's sculpting tools.

[off topic]
Eldest Dragon, know that you can model anything with any modeller. You must to check all of the features to evaluate the program.

Blender's features - read each item carefully, please.. and click on the pictures. It will taste good. I swear..

The more I learn how to use Blender, the more I admire it.

Luiz Fernando Belo Horizonte.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 01:49 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 01:50
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Quote: "I've seen awesome models come out of it.... but I've seen the same for anim8or (what I'm using at the mo).
"


Possibly, I mean if anim8or does all you need, then no, if you feel the need to divulge into some more features and are attracted to Blender in someway, then you should. It doesn't matter what package you use as long as you use it, it's only employers that a fussy with what you use, if you're not doing anything professionally, used what you like. But I know the limitations of Anim8or as that was my first 3D program, for one thing your animations do not export on your model.

Blender is pretty much feature packed, I'm even tempted to push myself through learning it, I mean some of it's features are certainly worth having. -But if I have the money, I'd go for apps I prefer to use, but there are those who practically marry Blender, so I'd try it, I mean it's not as if you've got anything to lose (other than time)

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 02:46
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Quote: "Is it worth learning blender??"


i would suggest it yes, i am too weak for that interface, i like to move around very quickly with the interface, and blender just isn't my piece of cake.

but if you are fine with the program, yes learn to use it. It has a MASSIVE community and enough work done on it to stay up to date with technology and have all the features you could desire, even the renderer is brilliant.

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SamHH
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 03:21
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not be authoritarian but could we get back on track.
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Oolite
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 20:14
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I'm a bit of a ZB fanboy [ to be perfectly honest ] so my choice would be ZB, if your going to use it for DBPro projects or personal work its not worth buying it, but because i use it with commercial work it comes in handy, i always use it for high poly modelling and for normal maps for low polygon models, its not overpriced either.

Just my opinion, like i said its not really worth purchasing it for DBPro projects or the occasional model, but its a really good tool.


[Looking for work]
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