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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] DBPro in 10 years times

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EdzUp
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 15:26
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Hmm in ten years time I might have finally finished Star Rogue

-EdzUp
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Dared1111
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 15:36
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well, we can kinda see 4d (4th dimension is time) but what is the 5th dimension?

Who wants a Lemon?

I love lemons... and cats
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dark coder
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 15:46
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In 10 Years DBP will be optimized.



AHAHAHHAHAAhahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok jokes aside, I think we will finally have an update that has FSAA, ok maybe 20 years.

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LD52
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 21:14
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Quote: "well, we can kinda see 4d (4th dimension is time) but what is the 5th dimension?"


Lets see so we have 2 dimensions which is flat so X Y then there's 3 D which is X Y Z and you say 4th Dimension is time so we have X Y Z T then 5th dimension will happen once we invent the letter that comes after Z so we'll have T X Y Z (?) so there you have it before programmers move on to their wildest dreams of making 5 dimensional games we will need an English Professeur to invent the letter after Z so we can move forward with our creations. The Revolution starts with English then comes the Math / Technical / Programming part and we'll after every invention there is the period of 'FUN' where we kick back play sports ( FOOTBALL YA ! ) have a drink ( Apple Juice Rest and maybe enjoy the invention so ... does that answer your question ?
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 21:17
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We can't really SEE time passing. We only see NOW. After that it's gone. Now, I'd say to see the passage of time, we'd have quite a cluttered ugly view of everything. And it would be incredibly strange. There'd be trees and grass where your house is, and maybe a landfill, or a future battlefield. We'd share the roads with hover vehicles, and witness weapons and technology far beyond our modern reaches. But, I think everything would be covered with every frame of our lives. There's be no where to go, as you will have already gone there in the future and your body would be in the way no matter what. Freaky concept if you think about it...

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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heartbone
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 21:35
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The premier *IX (procedural) programming environment.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
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Brain111
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 22:23
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Kinda makes me think of when you turn on "edit multiple fames" in Flash.
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LD52
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 23:14
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Quote: "We can't really SEE time passing. We only see NOW. After that it's gone. Now, I'd say to see the passage of time, we'd have quite a cluttered ugly view of everything. And it would be incredibly strange. There'd be trees and grass where your house is, and maybe a landfill, or a future battlefield. We'd share the roads with hover vehicles, and witness weapons and technology far beyond our modern reaches. But, I think everything would be covered with every frame of our lives. There's be no where to go, as you will have already gone there in the future and your body would be in the way no matter what. Freaky concept if you think about it...
"


i didn't mean it that way i meant that there would be a clock in every game sheesh
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sp3ng
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:26
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Quote: "the smallest thing may jolt me awake like a noise in the hall"


i go to sleep with my radio on (its set to turn off after a certain time)

i have a dream of perfect tactical realism in games
have a question about military tactics?
ask me at this post http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=94634&b=1
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:41 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2007 03:43
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Quote: "I get strange dreams when I get colds too. I've even died a few times."


hmmm.. thats weird, usually in my dreams i can't die. for instance, one dream i had that was really sad was when i got to see everyone in the world die from nuclear war. it was also weird because i had the feeling that i had seen everyone in the world all in the flash of an instant. at the end, i was still standing there in burning rubble. then i woke up.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:48
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4th dimension is actually "W". At least, thats how OpenGL references it.

In 10 years time I would hope to see accumulation buffer altering. Does Direct3D even support an accumulation buffer.



Cheers,

-db


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LD52
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 04:25
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Quote: "4th dimension is actually "W". At least, thats how OpenGL references it."


"W" eh kool so 4D is W X Y Z so then 5D would be V W X Y Z eh i guess we don't need that english professeur its sad we could have given them something to do well after the 26th dimension i guess then we'll need them to get us a new letter after Z ...
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 04:36
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When we reach the 26th dimension, i'd imagine graphics cards work at 248 GHz, with 256 GB.... all for only $5. I'd like to see that day come.... Oh yes.... I can imagine it now.



Cheers,

-db


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 05:01
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Well, we may need those English professors sooner, because RGB and A are reserved for colors and alpha values.

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LD52
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 22:10
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Quote: "Well, we may need those English professors sooner, because RGB and A are reserved for colors and alpha values."


True .. eh i guess my cousin won't have to look for a new job and can stay an english professeur

Quote: "When we reach the 26th dimension, i'd imagine graphics cards work at 248 GHz, with 256 GB.... all for only $5. I'd like to see that day come.... Oh yes.... I can imagine it now."


Can't wait either but first ill need to get myself $5 so i can prepare for this event ... LET IT BE ... LET IT HAPPEN !!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 01:45
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@LD52
My bad. I forgot about texture coordinates.

U, and V are reserved texture coordinate letters.

So, if we do undergo the next dimension, we may still need that english professor.


Cheers,

-db


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LD52
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 03:24
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My cousin is oh so happy !
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The admiral
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 05:01
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Maybe tools will be developed to make game development easier and quicker yet still to a high level of detail.

The admiral
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LD52
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 06:05
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Quote: "Maybe tools will be developed to make game development easier and quicker yet still to a high level of detail."


Others think this is probably good but i don't know i do want games development to become easier and better detial and high-end stuff but i don't want it to get too easy where every person in the world can make the next Halo 3 game in 1 hour as it would ruin some of the fun of coding but i would like to shorten it abit and add more features though. It would be awesome if the future the next 50 decades become the indi developer revolution once again !!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 06:32
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I agree with LD52.... However, not everyone in the world wants to make the next halo 3, most just want to play it.

However, tools like this, even in the future, would cost a great deal of money.



However, I also believe people are entitled to the right to make games, and making tools to help those in need is what developers should do. Making software open-source, would help the next generation of game developers learn, and implement techniques. Hence, why I made DarkGE 2 Open Source.



Cheers,

-db


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The admiral
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 10:12
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This is true maybe just tools to produce graphics and sound more efficiently then.

The admiral
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 10:26
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Quote: "I also believe people are entitled to the right to make games"

No more than they have a right to make movies or write screenplays or anything else. It is something you can do if you want to, but to do it properly it costs money.

Our tools will improve, but commercial tools will improve as well. The disparity between indie and commercial tools will remain much the same as it is today. Games made with inexpensive tools will be about 2 years behind commercial titles.


Come see the WIP!
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LD52
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 21:34
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Quote: "Games made with inexpensive tools will be about 2 years behind commercial titles."


But then we will have time machines so it won't matter much just go two years back when the game was good and commercial quality
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 00:35
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@Cash
Thats true, but I believe they should at least lower the prices on such tools. If those tools do the same thing as other tools, just with more ease, then they should lower the prices to compete with the other tools, resulting in better games. All of that is my own personal oppinion though.


Cheers,

-db


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that dude
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 12:59
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No one has stated the obvious yet (Or if they did, I missed it). In ten years, dbp will code itself.

Also, 2nd person shooters will be the new thing.

"Damn your eyes!"
"Too late"
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Code Dragon
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 16:21 Edited at: 25th Feb 2007 16:22
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Not really, no language will ever program by itself. Describing the game you want it to make in enough detail will take longer than actually making it yourself.

Also, if it was possible, what programmer would be dumb enough to code a program that codes automatically, making him lose his job?

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 18:50
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Quote: "Also, 2nd person shooters will be the new thing."


Please describe how this would work... It would sort of like watching a game being played wouldn't it? You shouldn't have any control over a 2nd person player I don't think. But maybe my definition of 2nd person is incorrect.

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LD52
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 19:09
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Quote: "No one has stated the obvious yet (Or if they did, I missed it). In ten years, dbp will code itself.
"

Coding itself hmm so your talking of an artificially intelligent language that will code itself that might be kool but it would definitely take away the coding fun out of games plus you wouldn't have any control over the games you make?

Quote: "Also, 2nd person shooters will be the new thing."


So First person is when you see the enemies from your eyes. Third person is when you see from another angle like theoutside of the body. SEcond person means you or the enemy so you mean a second person shooter would be controlling a character from the view of your enemies which may seem kool idea but would be very hard to control. ?
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UnderLord
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 20:39
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In 10 years I'll be 31.
In10 years buying and putting your own GFX card will be no more as the GFX card motherboard, processor , sound card , hard drive will all be the same piece of hardware called a mother chip

It can hold 10 terabytes of data, and is 200mm square.

String theory would be proven right, and we will live on mars....or atleast under water =P

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 21:15
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Quote: "In10 years buying and putting your own GFX card will be no more as the GFX card motherboard, processor , sound card , hard drive will all be the same piece of hardware called a mother chip "


I wouldn't look forward to that at all... Seperate parts are by far a much better way to go. I can just imagine if I wanted to upgrade my GFX processor, I'd have to get a whole new "motherchip" and thus needing to transfer the contents of my hard drive and... ugh, that would be annoying...

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 22:56 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 23:00
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Quote: "String theory would be proven right, and we will live on mars....or atleast under water =P"


I don't think we'll be living on Mars or develop gills that soon, but maybe NASA will have a spacestation on the moon and maybe a space elevator. Rich people (like me, I'll be a millionaire in 10 years I hope...) will be able to go to the top of the elevator and play video games in outerspace, where DBP 2017 creates holograms of aliens for them to blast.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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that dude
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 04:30 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2007 04:36
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I hope you all know I was joking in my previous post...

For a serious answer, I think that by that point, we will most likely have computers integrated in literally everything (cars, houses, medical inplants, etc.), and I can only assume that dbp, being the ever adapting program that it is, will provide functionality so that we can make programs that can literally do anything from turning off the oven when the pie is done (mmm.... pie...) to setting all the led lightbulbs in your house to blink to the song, "Jinglebells." In a more serious look at such a system, you could make the lights in the room dim and flash when the player's ship is hit, or cause strange sounds to play all over the house for atmosphere. Then again, I doubt that we will still be using C++ or Basic by that point, but that is another conversation for another day.

Another aspect that will probably come into play is the ability to control incredible AI that will have evolved; I envision it as more of a conversation with the computers AI than direct control. For example:


Of course, that arrangement would work fine, except occasionally the computer would return an error asking, "Will I dream?"

"Damn your eyes!"
"Too late"
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:32
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Ive seen on a program called "Future Cars", that at some point, your car will be the most powerfull computer you own. I also heard, correct me if im wrong, that in 25 years, this will happen.


As for the Basic/C++ thing, please explain to me more what language you think that would be ** Example syntax please **, I am very interested in that statement.


Cheers,

-db


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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:36
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But hard drives will be about the size of mobile phone simm cards, so it'll be easy - when people say they lost their data, they'll actually be talking physically, like leaving it in your pocket and putting your jeans in the wash.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Clackersmith
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 15:49 Edited at: 4th Mar 2007 08:58
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I just finished reading through this topic and I just had to put in my 2 cents in regards to what you guys have been saying about dimensions back on page 2. I know it is a little of topic but i thought that some of you guys might find it interesting. As you can see I had nothing to do for about an hour and decided to type all this out...have fun reading those who are interested.

In some types of String theory the universe as we know it is comprised of 10 dimensions. (Some theory’s go as high as 26 dimensions)

1st Dimension

The best way to explain all this would be to start at the beginning with an imaginary point, just an imaginary idea that indicates a position in our system. If you create two of these points one above the another with distance between them and draw a line from point to point you can create the 1st dimension comprised solely of the length of the line between the 2 imaginary points.


2nd Dimension

If we take our 1st dimensional line and draw a second line crossing the first we have created the 2nd dimension. Now to understand the higher dimensions better, picture our 2nd dimensional line splitting off from our 1st dimensional line like and branch would from and tree trunk. Our 1st dimension can be quite simply referred to as a line and our 2nd dimensional line can be referred to as a split seeing as it splits of from our 1st dimensional line.


3rd Dimension

Now the 3rd dimension is the easiest for us to understand seeing as that is the dimension we exist in. It is comprised of Length, Width and Height. One way to think of the 3rd dimension is the area that you fold through to move from point to point in the dimension below (2nd dimension).

Think of it this way, picture a two dimensional piece of paper with a two dimensional ant walking around on it surface. If the ant walks to the edge of the paper we can simply bend/fold the paper through the 3rd dimension allowing you to join the papers ends together so the ant can move from one edge of the paper to the other seamlessly. In other words the ant is able to move from one point in 2d space to another point by passing through the 3rd dimension.

If we apply this same principle to our original two dimensional images comprised of our 1st dimensional line and our 2nd dimensional split. We can bend the top point of our 2nd dimensional split over to the top point of our 1st dimensional line. Our two dimensional split has now traveled through the 3rd dimension to reach another point in two dimensional space.


4th Dimension

Think of your self as you were 10 second ago and form this image into another imaginary point like we did before then imagine yourself as you are at this moment and also form this image into another imaginary point at a distance from our 10 second ago point. The line we could draw from the 10 seconds ago version to the current version would be a line in the 4th dimension. As you can see the pattern of Point-Line-Split-Bend is beginning to repeat it self with the creation of the 4th dimensional line. This line represents the time between the two points which in turn represents the past and present self.


5th Dimension

One of the most intriguing aspects of there being one dimension stacked upon another is that down here in the dimensions below we can be unaware of our motion in the dimensions above.

The 4th dimension being time fells like a straight dimension to us moving from the past to the future. But that straight line in the 4th dimension actually is twisting and turning in the dimension above.

Quantum physics tells us that the sub atomic particles that make up our world are collapsed from waves of probability simply by the act of observation. Each of us are collapsing the indeterminate wave of probable futures contained in the 5th dimension into the 4th dimensional line that we are experiencing as time.

In other words the 5th dimension is the multitude of paths that we could branch to at any given moment. Those branches will be influenced by our own choice, chance and the actions of others. To put it simply the 5th dimension is every potential path that we could take throughout our life time.

Now we have another split to branch of from our 4th dimensional line just as we did with our 2nd dimensional split and our 1st dimensional line.


6th Dimension

What if you wanted to get to the world for example where you had created a great invention as a child that by now had made you famous and rich. We can imagine our 4th dimensional self branching out from our current moment into the 5th dimension but no matter where you go from here the great child inventor time line is not one of the available options in your current version of time. It is impossible for you to get there from your current moment in time no matter how much choice, chance and the actions of others become involved.

There are only two ways you can get to that world. One would be to travel back in time and somehow trigger the events that caused you to come up with your invention then travel forward in the 5th dimension to see one of the possible new worlds that might have resulted. The other and shorter way would involve us folding the 5th dimension through the 6th dimension which allows us to instantly jump from our current position to a different 5th dimensional line. The 6th dimension is simply the area you fold through to move from 1 point to another in the 5th dimension.


7th Dimension

In our description of the 4th dimension we took the dimension below (3rd dimension) and conceived it as a point. The 4th dimension is a line which can join the universe as it was 10 seconds ago to the universe as it is right now. Or in the biggest picture possible we could say that the 4th dimension is a line that joins the Big bang with one of the possible endings of our universe.

To understand the 7th dimension you need to treat the 6th dimension as a single point similar to what we did to the 3rd dimension before. To do this we need to conceive all the possible time line that started from our Big bang drawing to all the possible ending for our universe a concept we often refer to as infinity and treat them all as a single point.

So for us a point in the 7th dimension would be infinity, all possible time lines which could have or would have occurred from our Big bang.


8th Dimension

If we are drawing a 7th dimensional line then we need to in-vision what a second point in the 7th dimension is going to be because that is what our line is going to be joined to. But how can there be anything more then infinity I hear you ask. The answer is that there can be other completely different infinities created through initial conditions which are different from our own Big bang. Different initial condition will create different universes. The branching time lines from that universes beginning to all its possible endings will create an infinity which is completely separate from the one which is associated with our own universe.

So the line we draw in the 7th dimension will join one of those infinities to another. And if we where to branch off from that 7th dimensional line to draw yet another line to infinity we would then be entering the 8th dimension.


9th Dimension

As we have explored already we can jump from one point in any dimension to another simply by folding it through the dimension above. By folding our 2 dimensional paper through the 3rd dimension would allow our ant to magically disappear from one location and appear in a different one. As we are now imagining the 9th dimension the same rules apply. If we were able to jump from one 8th dimensional line to another it would be because were able to fold through the 9th dimension.


10th Dimension

Before we discussed the first dimension we could say that we first started out with dimension zero which is the geometrical concept of the point. A point indicates a location in a system and each point is of indeterminate size. The first dimension then takes two of these points and joins them with a line. When we imagined the 4th dimension it was as if we were treating the entirety of 3 dimensional space in a particular state as a single point and drawing a 4th dimensional line to another point representing space as it is in a different state. We often refer to the line we have just drawn as time.

Then in the 7th dimension we treated all of the possible time lines which could be generated from our Big bang as if this was a single point and imagined drawing a line to a point representing all the possible time lines for a completely different universe.

Now as we enter the 10th dimension we have to imagine all the possible branches for all the possible time lines of all the possible universes and treat that as a single point in the 10th dimension.

Few!!!

Now this is where we hit a road block. If we are going to imaging the 10th dimension as continuing the cycle and being a line, then we are going to have to imagine a different point that we can draw that line to but there is no place left to go. By the time we have imagined all possible time lines for all possible universes as being a single point in the 10th dimension we have covered all our bases and are unable to continue.

In String theory physicist tell us that Super strings vibrating in the 10th dimension are what create the sub atomic particles which make up our universe and all of the other possible universes as well. In other words all possibilities are contained within the 10th dimension.


This is all of course my understanding on the subject of sting theory based upon infomation I gathered from the net over time I’m no physicist so I’m sure someone out there will be able to correct some mistakes I have made through out this post.
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Clackersmith
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 15:50 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2007 15:56
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Edit - Double posted opps!
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Code Dragon
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 21:50 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2007 13:03
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I don't believe in quantom physics, we're not living in a 26 dimensional universe, and the 4th dimension isn't time, time is something else. The only thing that exists is now, everything else is history or future, no longer existing or not existing yet. I don't believe all that is, was, and will be all coexists and that the only thing that changes is our perception of time, because if that was true we'd have no free will. There's two possibilites then, we do have free will, proving my theory right that the future is not set in stone, or that we merely think we have free will. I can prove this wrong too, don't say "Your brain is just a different kind of computer, executing prewritten instructions to make you think you're in control." Because computers are the illusion of thinking, made up by thousands of logic gates. The human brain is no different, made of of millions of neurons, but the difference is that we think as one entity. We have consiousness, computers don't. My theory is that the brain is the bridge between the consiousness and the body. Also, to say that a system must be complicated enough to aquire consiousness is absurd. How do you measure complication, and where do you draw the line for when it becomes consious?

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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Clackersmith
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 23:57 Edited at: 4th Mar 2007 10:43
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I also do not believe in any set path through existence or fate, and to my understanding that is not what quantum physics is all about. I see part of it as just a means of categorising vast amounts of information so that it can be easily referenced.

For example a point within the 10th dimension with all its possible branches for all the possible time lines of all the possible universes is not a pre set path. It is basically a way of simplifying a vast amount of infinite possibilities. These infinite possibilities are exactly that, infinite it’s hard to see it as a pre determined set of circumstances when there are an infinite number of possibilities.

In regards to consciousness -

I’m not really in agreement with what you are saying in relation to our consciousness being something more then just another type of computer. The way I see it is that our consciousness is just a complex emulation created by the vast network of neurons in our brain. This consciousness forms our reality by assigning truths to perceived situations based upon our interaction with others within our reality. Basically we learn to judge things based upon the perceived truths that one receives from others.

An example of this would be someone within your reality telling you that a basketball bounces off the ground because there is a magical string that is pulling it upward. To our understanding this is not the reason why a basketball bounces of the ground but if you accept this as your truth and choice to view your reality from that perspective then you have altered your reality through interacting with others. Humans could not function with out this ability.

If we remove all forms of stimulus (sight, sound, touch ect ect) from our reality we would be left with a world of near perfect freedom within our own mind. This world is completely of yourself, the only thing forming and existing within this reality is your consciousness. But even in this world of near perfect freedom where you would have the potential to do anything you what by simply thinking it you would not be able to function.

With no interaction with others we would not be able to recognize our own individuality or assign a truth to our current situation, and seeing as this near perfect freedom reality is empty, void and only of you then there would be no difference between yourself and nothing.

Your truth can be changed simply by the way you accept it.

Quote: "To say that a system must be complicated enough to aquire consiousness is absurd"


The common hypothesis that a complicated system is required to form a consciousness is a logical assumption based on the study of humans and animals within the natural world. I admit it is just a guess but it dose sound like the most reasonable probability.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 04:38
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@Clackersmith
Now say all that 10 times fast. lol.

Well said.

@Code Dragon
You may want to recheck your theory. ** Not that I disagree, but because what you said is controdicting. **


*** GENERALLY ***
So, I take it, the computer would require a LOT of memory to simulate this?


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-db


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Code Dragon
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 13:24 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2007 13:29
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Where is it contridicting?

Computers don't think as one entity, if that's what's condrdicting. They only appear to be. The difference is that humans know that although their body is made up of billions of atoms, we think as one. If someone loses a small part of their brain they can still behave normaly farily well. (Remember the brain is the bridge between consiousness and the body) Don't think that if part of your computer's CPU breaks it will still work. We actually experience life, and know we exist. It's not as simple as putting "self" in an object database, we understand what "self" is. Computers can't understand, they only execute. How can consiousness be an illiusion, if it was I wouldn't be thinking about what to type next, I'd only execute. I wouldn't know I was doing it. We have emtions and know we have them, computers only simulate it with numbers. They don't want to make happiness# = 1, they just don't care. They have the illusion of wanting it by programming. Computers don't experience computation even, the logic gates only react to the laws of physics, they're like rocks.

I suppose the real question is do you wish to believe that you are an externaly lasting consiousness that cannot be harmed in any way by the physical world, or a complicated rock?

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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dark coder
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 14:23
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Well it's hard to compare a human to a computer as they are very advanced, however if you bring it down a level to say an ant, then you could quite possibly say that it's programmed, as ants get born, they do set tasks, such as finding some dirt, digging a hole with other ants, then eventually making a bigger nest, then they have basic reactions such as if they go near something hot they try to not ge damaged by running in the other direction, things as basic as this could be programed to the point where it would resemble an ant to anyone looking from a 3rd person, ofcourse creating an computer that size and function like an ant isn't possible yet but you never know in the future. Then what makes the real ant and the robotic one different? if they both have the same desires, and function identically what makes them different? sure the actual ant has DNA and the robotic one has programming, but they could just be considered different types of programming, as you could still have mutations like data corruption, so most of the time the corrupted ant may just die / become useless or it could change its function to be more agressive to other ants, and then you have a new colony of super ants etc.

Quote: "They don't want to make happiness# = 1, they just don't care. They have the illusion of wanting it by programming."


And humans don't? sure it's obviously not just a case of one single variable, there would be lots of variables that make people do things, if you aren't happy then you could see what it is that isn't making you happy and then change it right? which could be programmed. Say it was your job, the programming could decide that to increace its happiness it could quit the job, however if that were to happen then you woulden't get money, and thus wouldn't have a plac eto live etc, which is the same for humans, only it's alot more complex, so given time with enough programming you could make a robot/AI that acts identically to a human, and let's say that does happen, what would make them different to us? afterall they would essentially be the same as us if they were programmed to be identical, so they may start thinking that what makes humans the same as us? then start a war, run away for 40 years into deep space and nuke us all.

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 16:35 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2007 16:36
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You can simulate happiness in great detail, but robots will never have genuine emotions.

Quote: "Quote: "They don't want to make happiness# = 1, they just don't care. They have the illusion of wanting it by programming."

And humans don't?"


Everyone wants happiness, but most people prefer instant gradification to happiness, that's why so many people smoke, do drugs, eat candy and get fat, and never excersize. Happiness is much better, but it requires more work, which people today are too lazy for. The sad truth is that the average person doesn't want happiness enough, and that's why they're average.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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LD52
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 18:56
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Dimensions whose to know but all i know is that our dimensions won't change since the third dimension is very well . think about it did we ever switch dimensions before ... did our ansesestors have a mass migration from the 2nd dimension to the third ? No so most likely there wont be a 4th dimension plus aren't you happy enough with what we have... well i am !
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Steve J
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 04:31
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And humans do? Our emotions are just chemical reactions, in the same way that computers emotions are just electrical reactions. You are contradicting yourself on a large scale here..

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 07:21
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Anything can be simulated by a CPU.

You can simulate a human. (This would no doubtedly take great amounts of memory to do though)

As you all say, its not one variable, they dont wont to "make happyness# = 1", this can be simulated by taking in all emotions, events, personalities, and every other "variable" into the consideration of emulating a person. Phsycology, in my oppinion, is this emulation, except, through a human.

NASA, has developed programs to act as computerized phsycologists.



I did not say what I did, to start a "brawl", merely to state my oppinion.


Cheers,

-db


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Code Dragon
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 15:35 Edited at: 4th Mar 2007 19:01
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Quote: "emotions are just chemical reactions, in the same way that computers emotions are just electrical reactions. You are contradicting yourself on a large scale here.."


It appears contridicting because you believe your emotions are merely chemical reations. Emotions orginate in the cousiousness, and because the brain is linked to the consiousness, chemical reations occur in the brain occur. They are the result of emotions, not the cause.

If you would like to argue that hormones are proof that emotions are chemical controled, remember it's all perception. The brain is the gateway through which we percive the physical world. The brain gives us bare information, (sight, sound, smell, touch, taste) and our consiouness chooses how we will percive and apply emotion to it. Hormones can make things appear different than they seem, because it changes the information our brain gathers. I can verify this, I run in to so many irrational people at school it makes me almost physically ill. (See, emotions can influence the body in addition to the body being able to twist reality and influence emotions) I'm sure you how hormones can make teenage girls behave. For example, there's a girl in my algebra class who interprets people who ignore her as "annoying people who should die." If I were to talk to someone in the class, she explodes with anger ("WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME?! GO DIE!!!!") and gives death threats. Friday, she said "I hate you with every bone in my body. Every 200 something bones." Yet I never did anything to make her hate me. Her boyfriend said "Bye!" to me one day, so I said bye back to him. Then he told her "See, he's not crazy." Yet she is still not convinced.

People can appear to be irratinoal, but they think they're doing the logical thing. She thinks I'm talking to her when I'm really talking to someone else. If that story doesn't convince you that hormones can twist perception to infulence emotions, nothing will.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 23:37
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This thread has gotten very off topic.


I think dbp will be where it is now, in terms of moderness.



Cheers,

-db


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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 23:52
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Quote: "This thread has gotten very off topic."


Dude it's the TGC forums, what would you expect?

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 5th Mar 2007 01:35
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lol.

Good point.


Cheers,

-db


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LD52
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Posted: 5th Mar 2007 03:39
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All i can say is my Emotions happen and i don't need some scientific formula like (happy*smile)^of a laugh = Crazily happy from the consience or something or some chemicals .... When im happy im happy!!
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