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3 Dimensional Chat / 3d RPG FMV

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ClearCoder
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Posted: 11th May 2003 00:27
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does any one know how i can make a opening and ending movie for my RPG i would like it to be FMV like Final Fastasy VII (best game ever ) i need to know how and what software to use . iknow in FF they used soft image is that on free or share ware at all

dudeman
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th May 2003 01:58
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Any HighEnd 3dSoftware Package. And um...nevermind...this almost reminds me of a bad Team Request Post....

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th May 2003 03:17
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they use Maya... or rather Takahiro (the lead CGR artist) uses Maya and Renderman

and trust my boi, if you had the skills to pull that off you'd be worth gold in the industry.
i'd suggest you settle into making something less... well just less taxing in effects eh (could've been worse could've said FF9 or FF10)

however you should remember its not the software that makes the modeler, its the skills and determination.
i'd suggest that if/when you get to the point when you really need starting and ending-sequences you get atleast a semi-pro from GFXartist.com to do it

doing all aspects of games is the road to ruin trust me i know, i'm finding this extremely hard to prove against this - and i know all the tricks of the trade... so if you're determined to do everything then all i can say is good luck to ya

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Eric T
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Posted: 11th May 2003 04:27
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fmv's are hard as hell...you gotta lot a work ahead of you.....my last fmv took 4 months to make....it was only 54 seconds.

I always win don't you know that?
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 11th May 2003 14:09
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guy you don't have to be that harsh on a newbie. sorry bout me tring to do all in the game.
sorry
dudeman

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th May 2003 17:52
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Raven, you are a games industry professional and you have valid points quite often, but lets assume for a second that a beginner isn't trying to make a semi-professional quality end-result.

When you say FMV Raven, your thinking film quality effects like Pearl Harbour - this guy is a beginner so it may enough to have a simple cube rotating on screen with his name on it.

Let's look at what the desired effect actually is then we can see if the desire is unreasonable. Although sure, Final Fantasy-like is abit out of reach, but maybe it is possible for him to don his dressing gown and film the sequence with a camcorder?

Pneumatic Dryll
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 11th May 2003 20:42
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cute Pneumatic really cute but i see your point i suppose it can be as basic as it needs to be to get across the story. i have finalised that yet coz i was going to get the software find out the limitation of my skills and go from there after the response to this post i'll think about it and post back won't take that long already got some idea.
dudeman

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Eric T
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Posted: 11th May 2003 22:47
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dudeman, just remeber....we are not streering you a way, all where saying is its hard to do.....not always suggested for a begginer.

I always win don't you know that?
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 11th May 2003 23:37
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okay at the start secquence all i want is for him to have a vivid dream with a man hold a woman kinda hostage but with the woman voice talking (calmly) to him in a language he can't understand and then to be waken up my a house mate who reminds him he needs to go to his lesson at the local church all the characters there i have already designed (only in 2d). so that it now we need to think of any way i can visally and soundly represent any of it. your are all right FF is out of my league ( for now )
crystal

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th May 2003 00:28
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actually my point wasn't just the skill invovled within the software you use...
developing FMV's or CGR Movies has ALOT more work behind it than you might realize at first.

Firstly you need a general story, you make that into a script, which becomes a storyboard - you need to outline each of the characters, like how they stand, move, their attitude, etc...
Creating Cinematic films is ALOT harder than making a simple Cutscene Movie - because it take alot of time to prep, and develop each aspects.

As most people seem to believe that all of the effects and artwork are done within a single sequence of film - and if you did that you'd be there rigging the entire scene and setting up for days.

you must develop the whole world in layers which most 2D Artists takes years to perfect the skills of understanding howto make these layers, Cinematic Artists must do with with actual depth added to the picture... trust me you'd be far better off leaving CGR and FMV to those who know what they're doing - if you just want to get the story across use a cutscene, the lack of quality isn't noticed as much becuase the detail isn't expected if you keep using the game engine.
Also it is alot quicker to make a low polygon scene with preset animations than rigging an entire scene of characters, dynamics, reactions, effects, etc... trust me i've done both on a professional level and i know which i'd pick for ease if given the chance.
Not to mention unless your game has beautiful cinematic graphics for the areas and such already - movies just look a little silly an out of place

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 12th May 2003 00:50
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okay so you say make a cut scene you game graphic. if so little problem i only have the main character in 3d the rest and 2d sould i then make a 2d cutscene which would me very have to conseve.
crystal

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Ian T
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Posted: 12th May 2003 00:50
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Game industry professional? I've never picked that up...

--Mouse

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th May 2003 01:13
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how can only the main character be 3d?? that must be one funky lookin' game you've got there

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 12th May 2003 01:19
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no see the world map is 3d kay only person ever on a world map is main character (rufus) and in the villages only character is rufus its only when you go in to a building a 2d screenshot comes up with a a image of the person inside and a dialog box. the main reason for the game was to test my world map skill but its kinda evolved in to a full rpg (not as big as eternal destiny max playing timer probaly bout an hour but don't know) okay so you nkow what i want top show any idea at all.
cyrstal

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 12th May 2003 04:24
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Soft Image is some beyond belief modeller/renderer program, way beyond any legal buyers range(the cost of it is too damn axpensive-in the hundreds of thousands, I think), but it's got a renderer thats at least 10 times better than 3ds max.

It isn't me thats good it's the program I'm using thats good...
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 12th May 2003 04:40
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My prefrence is Lightwave3d. And thats my prefrence not yours or 'the bottom line'. It's sorta affordable weighting in at $995. Comes complete with a terribly effective modeler and one of the most realistic renderers todate. All in all a sexy package

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th May 2003 17:54
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Lightwave3D is also probably the most unusable and user friendly to a beginner - especially the fact they have 2 programs, one for modeling the other for animation and rendering.
Top5 Render engines at the moment are

1. Pixar Renderman/Pixal (Softimage/Maya)
2. Messiah:Render (Softimage/Maya/Max/Lightwave)
3. trueSpace6.5 "Native" (trueSpace)
4. Splutterfish Brazil 1.1 (Max/Maya)
5. Mental Ray 3.3 (Softimage/Maya/Max/Lightwave/trueSpace)

although Lightwaves is good in its standard state, it doesn't even compare to the others any more ... a few years ago it was the best but they've not updated many of it features since 6.0 (makes it very old and decrepid by todays standards)

trueSpace is true value for your buck $299 for 6.5 if you download the demo first (which is also the smallest around at 13Mb) with that you get Poser4 technology for animation and such. Although Poser was never a good modeler its animation and humanoid features were quite outstanding for the begginer

if you want something with alround abilities you'll want Max4 ($500 from Discreet themselves) + a beta copy of Brazil 0.4.8 ... although it does watermark the images, you can go back and give it that film look by painting the watermarked area's black.

however for true power and rendering i'd go for Softimage or Maya, which you can pickup Maya 4.5 Complete w/Mental Ray for $1,200
alternatively you can download Softimage XSI EXP 3.0 (which is technically XSI 3.0 almost entirely) for free.

Only rub is no commercial purposes - however really the way i see it you can develop them now in it, then when you need it for commercial purposes get your publisher to foot the bull for a full copy
might seem weird but that does actually get around the legalities of the matter.


that aside for a min, i'm not sure i follow on what you mean - post a screenshot up of what your game looks like ... i'll see what i can suggest

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th May 2003 20:19
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In this situation I think you really want to avoid 3D modelling, it will involve more development than the game itself to bring to fruition, so I stand by what I said earlier - break out the camcorder (borrowed or otherwise) and film it.

You'll need to knock up a script and a storyboard before you film it, trust me on this a visual idea in the brain is not enough because you cannot film, act, direct, edit, post-produce all by yourself - well certainly you cannot film and act it at the same time even if you can do the rest.

As you are UK you would be working with a PAL-1 TV signal, which is convenient because I have a PAL-1 video editing system so all you'd need to do is send me the tapes and the story board and i'll string it together and - we could talk about this i'd need convincing - I may be able to put together some special effects for you. This should be planned first to know what footage is required.

Once edited I just turn it into an .mpg and you can play it back from within DB/DBPro.

Now we're into my domain I turned down a part in Braveheart would you believe, and Ivanhoe...

Pneumatic Dryll
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 12th May 2003 22:33
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Pneumatic: i'am 15 and live in a town how am i even going to get a set i would be better off drawing the whole thing

Raven: look at general talk The Sorus latest shots and then you might get a better idea

crystal

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th May 2003 23:50
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yeah i saw... i'm not sure what to suggest as it looks like Pokémon Snap - the only thing i'd suggest really would be a blend of 2D Animation in a 3D Cinematic Environment. That would probably blend the best.

And really if you want the game to have a better all around look to it your going to want a 2D & 3D Artists who work well together but not nessarily any good at animation, because all you really need are static scenes.

i'd also suggest rather than having a 3D main character you have a 2D one on a plain which is animated in 5 states,
Facing toward, Facing away, Facing Sidewards, Facing Away-Side, Facing Toward-Side.

more about making a game look good is making things work together better and flow - if they flow then even poor graphics will seem better.
Also rather than Sketch of the people i'd suggest you just have thier faces and use Sprites like the main character... that way you can see who your interacting with (which doesn't make the game seem so much of an Omega Man thing lol)

i'd suggest you get over to gfxartist.com and see if you can't convince someone on there to lend you an artist hand i'm sure you won't regret it

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 13th May 2003 01:15
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what do you mean blending unlike you i don't have much experience all my other creation have been just kinda bit not full games so i'm kinda new to the whole flowing thing as when playing a game you take it for granted. But i see what you mean it need to flow. at gfxartists i am tring to get a 3d artist right. what do you mean by spirtes rather than sketches (sorry never lreant 2d).

crystal

P.S. should i get an artist to go over my skectchs

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th May 2003 02:16 Edited at: 13th May 2003 02:18
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Movie sets..? improvise In the same way you have to photograph everything for your 3D scene to get the textures, you need to take existing places out of their normal context.

Oh well I can't convince everyone.

Mind you I just edited an opening cinematic movie for our next game and ... It isn't filmed! Instead we've 3D rendered like you where hoping to do for your game.

So I am clearly talking out of my non-recreational orrifice for not doing as I preach. Nick will be announcing that shortly, but I wont thread-jack any further about my own game

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th May 2003 04:46
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if you want to get an idea of flow, run a few games and pay attention to how they've been made.

unfortunately after a while this becomes second nature and it becomes hard to enjoy games which weren't properly produced for consistancy - a bit like movie directors find it hard to watch poorly produced films.

what you'll be wanting is a 3D and a 2D Artist... a Sprite is just a fancy way os saying an image used for a character.
Old 2D games used to be made up of lots of sprite images, nowadays they're used for HUDs and such in alot of games - but the idea would be to put each character on a plane so you have a 3D world, cept the characters themselves would be 2D and more cartoony
i'd get some artists good at static scenes and animé

alot of the guys & gals are pretty good and like challenges on gfxartist.com - they can probably tell you in better detail how they want to blend a scene to everything fits into place and works nicely

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th May 2003 15:11
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Hehe, the cinematic term is 'continuity', and if you ever played spiderman the movie, anytime you get to a cutscene, the camera angle may switch, or by chance it will begin where the game paused and the cutscene began, but WHAT?! Spiderman is all of a sudden over on the other side of the room... That's pretty dreadful continuity, considering they could easily have gotten spiderman to walk to his 'mark' before beginning the cutscene... Anyhow if this is gonna be your first game I wouldn't worry too much about it

For help making a good cutscene you're actually better off looking at film production sites, perhaps even a short filmaking course, ones which expand on subjects related to the language of cinema, concepts such as the importance of never 'crossing the line' (and yes I know about Eisenstein) and basic continuity for say having a cut between a character coming towards the camera and cutting to the character now past the camera position, and walking away. There is a well developed language of cinema which allows you to describe a story very quickly and without tracking a character's every move, it is the art of montage well worth checking into if you're serious

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Eric T
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Posted: 13th May 2003 15:18
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Speaking of FMV's anyone interested in doing an opening and closing for mine and evad's latest game...if your interested email me and i'll mail you details of the game. TY

I always win don't you know that?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th May 2003 17:26
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I'll help anyone with camcorded/film cutscenes Yusuke although i'm not interested in loosing myself in a 3D modelling package for months.

My only rule is let me see the game before it is released so I can decide whether to remove my name from the credits! : thane@globalnet.co.uk

Pneumatic Dryll
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ClearCoder
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Posted: 15th May 2003 18:14
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ohh no one at gfx artist wants to help me guess i'm kinda stuck

any one got any new ideas

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 16th May 2003 04:26
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lol, if you can e-mail a story thingy I may help,

kean_ooi@hotmail.com

It isn't me thats good it's the program I'm using thats good...
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 21st May 2003 10:24
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k, I'm not sure if you actually got a reply(hotmail was being wierd), but basically what I was going to say was,

Can I have the full story and any info that may be useful.
note:I won't start until I get the full story

It isn't me thats good it's the program I'm using thats good...
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Siege Delux
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Posted: 28th May 2003 11:50 Edited at: 28th May 2003 11:54
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Im not a super duper programmer/modeler but i could help you with tips/help wit the game or enything else.

Im a fan of FF so you could count me in!

and my e-mail is siegedelux@hotmail.com

Dreaming Tree Games
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