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FPSC Classic Models and Media / [LOCKED] FPSPACKS.com?

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Fiberfrag
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
Location:
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:05
Well I hate to be pushed in the corner and I will not provide anything else as I am the owners of the products I have made. I resently lost a hard drive on a computer with assess to the master files and have not been able to find backup unrendered in gaming condition for textures. To be quite honest, even if I had them I would not provide anyone with the masters of my work. I offer a full refund with all of my products as a client was unhappy and that is the reason for the refund. I have full knowledge in C++, html, php and many others and have created many products and many were stolen. I do not need to prove it to you Fred and if you ban me becasue of this than so be it. I have had many idea I have been going over with Rick and Lee and had some cool things we were developing for the clients of FPSC. I am more than qualifies to develop programs and graphics without getting your approval. Again if the Mods decide to vote me out than so be it... I wish to stay but have no control over that.

Fiberfrag
Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:08 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 21:15
I wish I still had the masters for those files as they were great. That is why we are creating new ones as we are getting rid of the old and making the new...

Fred for you information, I refunded the money to make it easier on the whole situation as he described that his stuff he bought was stolen. It was easier to give back the $7.99 than go through a dispute with paypal.

And I never asked for any appology as I stated that things happen. Again if I get banned bacasue of this than so be it. I wish to stay around but again not my call. I will not respond anymore as I have nothing more to say.

Fiberfrag
Locrian
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:11
Read the first sentence, and quit reading.....blah blah....Im not even a pro that runs a ventrilo server company and I have 3 comps on my network with many copies of my images on about 6 internal hard drives and one external.......Blah blah blah.....no proof....no acceptance..

By see ya
Loc

FredP
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:16
Quote: "I wish I still had the masters for those files as they were great."

Why would you not have them?
If somebody said "Fred...can you post us the texture you made for your model" I can almost bet I have every single one somewhere.
Why would you delete such great work?
So the jist of it I get is "I give you my word I did not do this but I have no proof so please just take my word for it."?

KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:17
We've had "sellers of media" come here before with explainations as to the origins of the work in question. One person in particular sought to vindicate themselves by sending me their .psd files; except it was a water-marked/merged image (no layers as I asked for). That proved nothing to me, as anyone with access to a legal/pirated copy of Photoshop could use it to get the .psd format.

So save your "Salem Witch Hunt" comparisons for another place, MonT. With so many members being caught with fraudulent media for sale lately, it is hard to trust people.

If, in fact, FibreFrag is the original creator of this media; he can go a long way in helping us clear things up. It's not fair that an artist has to prove the work is his/her own; but the pirates around here make it neccessary, unfortunately. People that both put up "ill-gotten" media, as well as those who download and use it, harm everyone.

I have nothing to apologize for, as I am doing the job I was given the authority to do; with qualifying proof already shown. If, FibreFrag is legitimate however; you can be sure we'll defend him in the future.

-Keith

FredP
Retired Moderator
18
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Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 21:23
He doesn't have any proof.
Bullshock...whenever you get around to it you get the honors.
Now we can all go on with our lives.

Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
Location:
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:14
I don’t have the means to prove they are mine due to IP sufficiently, and so I had to withdraw the product from sale permanently for the avoidance of doubt. it is as simple as that. That is why I pulled the products. I will have all evidence of my next pack for sure.

Fiberfrag
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:18 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 23:25
Ok fiberfrag, youve got one last chance to convince me you didnt steal these textures.

Explain this:

According to this link:

http://whois.domaintools.com/fpspacks.com

your site was regestered on the 5th of March 2007,

Here is the link to the site that you claim stole your textures:

http://whois.domaintools.com/arroway.de

now it doesnt say a regestration date, which i assume is because its a "DE" domain name instead of ".COM" domain, but it does have dates listed under the "Changed" item, which go as far back as 2004.

So, if this site has been up since 2004, and yours has only been up for a month, how would they have your textures?

Please explain, im waiting.


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
Location:
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:21
Christ. Do I have to even get into that. The site was bought a few weeks ago but the textured existed on my old hard drives as a master copy already rendered. The website has nothing to do when the prints were produced years ago. We have many graphics in our studio from old project and thought it was a good idea to release our old stuff before the new. That simple. I have stated enough and wish I never lost my old masteres on a bad hard drive. We all can releate to that I am sure.

Fiberfrag
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:23
Not really.

Thats the ussual excuse with anything like this.

if your files were only on your hardrive, your saying someone hacked your computer and stole the textures, then posted them for sale?

If not, please provide proof of where this company may have gotten your textures from.


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:24
I have said enough, packs are pulled and off line and again the product is not for sale permanently for the avoidance of doubt. That simple...

Fiberfrag
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:28
So your admitting i caught you?

this forum works very similar to a court of law.

We ban people based on evidence, not on sombodys word. no justice system is perfect, and sometimes innocent people do get punished, but thats how it goes. so i have no other choice then to get rid of criminals that violate the AUP based on EVIDENCE.

Im going to check a few more things, but if something doesnt come up fast in your favor, then bye bye...


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 22:51
Hi Guys,

Just got an email which brought me from the X10 dungeons to comment on this issue. For me, an opportunity to talk about myself, and hopefully to enlighten those wishing a long and successful job in an industry where IP (intelectual property) is king.

I picked up the sad habit many years ago of keeping my old notes, drafts, prototypes, files and in some cases, a posted copy of same to myself. This last trick ensures you have an official date attributed to what is inside the envelope. You can further cement your claim by having the envelope placed in the hands of a solicitor or safebox to double up on the date of conception. Fortunately, I have never had to delve into my mirky records, but IP challenges do happen, and I guarentee as we move towards the realm of user customizable content, the ownership of electronic stuff will be even more jelously guarded than ever before.

That said, there are many ideas that have sometimes gone to product where I do not have sufficient material from the development, and so would have to rely on pedigree and good arguments to win an IP challenge. I certainly hope I don't have to fight one of those (above). My mission in life is to be a full time coder, not a part time solicitor!

In this case, the moderators have once again demonstrated their ability to police these forums well, armed with a thorough knowledge of the community and good old fashioned common sense. Had they sniffed out a pirate, the site in question would probably be in flames right about now

Speaking as a guy with IP all over the place, I don't think we have found a witch in Fiberfrag, just another guy who does not have enough ammo to defend a challenge for the IP that are using/selling. You might be surprised just how little we are prepared in this area, especially when the work was created casually. If it was me, and I could not prove it was mine, I would probably do as Fiberfrag has done and withdraw the product, refund anyone who applied and start work on a replacement product making sure I did everything possible to retain evidence of IP ownership.

The situation is similar to losing all your work when your HD dies. The very next thing you do is invest in the most solid backup agent you can find to make sure it never happens again. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:02
@Fiberfrag

Apparently lees on your side, so thats enough for me.

I would however like to see an example of your newer work just to make sure it compares in quality.

@lee, just curious, but who did you get an email from?


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:15
Fiberfrag was doing some R&D work with us and wanted to make sure he did not get banned before he could finish his work and post his progress

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
Location:
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:20
Thanks Lee,

Thanks BULLSHOCK 2, all my work from now on will have proof if requested and will never pull our rendered stuff with no proof.

Fiberfrag
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:28
Nothing personal.If you check around the forums you will find we have had issues of piracy in the past.We are just looking out for our forum members.
I had to ban a guy a while back for piracy and I respected the guy,worked on stuff with him and even bought his stuff and it was heart wrenching for me.
It's just our job.

BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
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Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:29
sorry for any confusion

Like i said, we moderate based on evidence, and lee's word alone is enough to protect anyone on the forum.

Sorry for any inconveniance i may have caused either of you.


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
Fiberfrag
17
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Joined: 15th Dec 2006
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Posted: 5th Apr 2007 23:40 Edited at: 5th Apr 2007 23:41
Thanks to Fred also,

All good guys, I respect everything that went on and fired up Z-Brush.... I will come up with something cool...

Fiberfrag
KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 6th Apr 2007 00:29
This just re-enforces something I brought up earlier (in another thread(s)). We need some sort of system either in the forums, or on the TGC site itself. Something that allows adverts (with guidlines, etc.) to be placed for products that TGC has shown to be original (from the artist/programmer's standpoint). They can put the same disclaimer on it as they do in the Newsletter; but it would show that they looked at the material (a copy of everything going up for sale would have to be submitted).

I know that would mean extra work for somebody, but it's not like there are hundreds of developer's products ready to go or anything (you could even implement a monthly cap on submissions). It's not foolproof (nothing is), but it may give members a little more piece of mind when considering the purchase of an Indy Developer's wares. Of course the penalty for submitting someone else's work as your own (whether you knew it or not, makes no difference) would mean a permanent ban from submitting in the future.

This doesn't mean that TGC would be responsible for any sales (unless they wanted to approach the developer with an offer); it would simply be a page dedicated to a small description of each product, with an image and a link to the product's page.

This wouldn't discourage anyone from advertising on the forums as we do now, but it may help.

-Keith

Locrian
19
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Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 6th Apr 2007 02:26
I still don't apologize for anything I've said. He still only showed a couple of 60 segments for sale. Theres still no proof that any of the IP was his.

Bet you'll remember to save some proof next time.(Or more then likely....this will fade from mind and we'll never see another texture offered by this company)

Ya got lucky......

Fiberfrag
17
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 03:00
Not true, we will have something for release by Easter. Maybe just after. We were working on the new stuff the last few weeks.

Fiberfrag
Locrian
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Nov 2005
Location: Burton Mi.
Posted: 6th Apr 2007 03:15
Well heres a clue.....When ya advertise 70 items....Show 70 items...Even if there little images....Makes you much less shady.

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