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3 Dimensional Chat / Assault Riffle ... FINISHED !!

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Simple
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Posted: 21st May 2003 05:35
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OK, here's the finished Assault Riffle ..... this is the high poly version ( 550 poly's ) ... the low poly version will be around 300

This is a multi functional weapon, and can fire Shotgun rounds - sniper rounds - 9mm auto rounds and a canister can be added to turn it into a mini flame thrower ;D

OOoooow ! deadly ..... and wait till you see the dude who will be carrying it 8)




Up close and personal !!

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st May 2003 06:35
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This is a very nice looking model, excellent poly count and textured to a high standard.

Plausability? As if it matters but here's my thoughts.

Multi-functional weapons do exist now although i'd not expect to see one with so many features as compact as this appears.

I'm assuming the sniper aspect is combined into the SMG and therefor firing 9mm parabellum rounds so this is not going to replace a dedicated rifle in terms of range and accuracy, I would imagine it performs closer to an SA-80 using the weapons light construction to 'shake' in innacuracy for the SMG on burst fire.

The sight is also going to be noticeably out if you happen to fire upon a close range target because of the distance between it and the 9mm barrel although in real terms the ranges that this would impact the sight are unlikely to be sniped shots.

I'm guessing the flame thrower and shotgun barell are also combined, and the only way I see this working is if a dummy slug is affixed into the firing chamber when the flame thrower is in use? If so the cannister would need to connect very close to the current trigger and may be innoperable for left/right handed use because of that, and also distinctly unbalanced.

These two minor faults could be resolved by swapping the barrel positions.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2003 07:29
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i kinda wish you'd use polygons better, seems you like just to make an outline and then let the texture pick up the slack - makes it look bloody amazing from the side, but from any other veiw is very flat and bland.

that aside you've made the clip part of the weapon, which looks a little odd because there is no holder infront of the trigger ... i know the Tompson M1A1 has that too but with such a long clip you really can't get away with it.
i'd also look into shaping the handle & shoulder buffer, making the entender for the shoulder butt alot thinner to run along the top of the barrel or have if run top<->bottom so a gap in the centre.

said this so many times before, but you really NEED to put in the effort into the mesh you make as you put into the texture, its not just a 2D sprite for your texture remember.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Arrow
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Posted: 21st May 2003 08:00 Edited at: 21st May 2003 08:09
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Not bad, Real nice texture, I assume Photoshop?

I agree with PneumaticDryll about combining that many weapons into one unit. Unless one is relying one some sort of enery weapon, where the ammo can be easily converted into different "shells", multiguns will remain unpractical. Of course there are execptions (M16 + m203 40mm), but one quick question, how do you fire all this with one trigger?

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Simple
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Posted: 21st May 2003 13:40
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PneumaticDryll .... OK, I exaggerated a little and maybe got carried away on the functionality a bit !!!!! ( so it fires bullets )

Raven ... Tun-tee-tum-tee-tum !! ... I don't know why you'd wish I would use polygons better ? nore do I you care really ? ... AND it's not as flat as you think on the sides ( just looks like it a bit in these screenies ) in fact the pump action part is considerably wider than the rest of the riffle ( and also has animation ) ... and the ammo mag + metal sliding parts are not flat with the rest of the riffle either.

So you are wrong .... I haven't just made an outline and let the texture do the rest

Maybe I'll post up a different angle and take away the texture.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2003 14:09
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no i can quite well see that the pumpaction/grip is wider, but the entire weapon itself is quite wide and is also quite flat in design.

the top could be angled a little to provide a little depth, the handle could be chamfered on the front or back to add even an ounze of curve so that it wouldn't hurt like hell to grab ahold of and use.

don't take this as a flame in anyway, actually listen for once ... take the time to look over the shape of the weapon. the majority just looks like you've outlined and extruded.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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arras
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Posted: 21st May 2003 14:32
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Sorry Simple but I have to agree with Raven, weapon looks too blocky. It would not be perhaps so bad, in general rifles are more or less blocky in shape, but may be you can consider to remodel the back part, which is attachet to arm. If you would make it little bit more subtile and plastic in x axis it would improve look of weapon considerably...I think it is to "heavy". But thats only my suggestion.

But dont missunderstand me, your model is wery good, I also like texturing work you did on it.

Also It sounds little bit unsealistic such a multifunctionality, but for sure you had reasons to give such a pover to your gun
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Simple
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Posted: 21st May 2003 15:37 Edited at: 21st May 2003 15:39
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Well... if you read my first topic regarding this riffle, It was made originally for some benchmarking I've been doing ( with textures and file formats )

But I supposed you are both right as far as the grip and butt are concerned ( I could add some more detail in there to round them off )and I will do.

Anyways.... I have been doing some studying of file formats ( PNG mainly )

Now .dds files ( which I normally use isn't actually an image file ( I don't think ? ), it's a data file ..... so even though it's smaller in file size, it has to UN-compress to it's original size when in use.

But the .png file ... once compressed - stays compressed ( bit like the .jpg - .giff - tiff )

So >> this 512x512 .png is only 278k in size depending on the detail, the size will go up with more detail added ( it's 769k as a .bmp ) ..... and even if I use the texture at 1024x1024, it's still only 904k ( 3.2mb as a .bmp )

So this little benchmark riffle has given me some very usefull information

If anyone knows anymore info about .png's then I would appreciate you sharing it with me ... or please correct me if this information I have gathered is incorrect ( cos I'm still studying it and reading up on it on the net )... but not all info is always correct on the net

Anyways..... thanks for your input ( makes a change that it was quite mild ) !!!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2003 16:22
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DDS is DirectX proprioty image format, includes Alpha & MipMapping as standard as well as being able to be set to all of the current D3DFMT colour codes and being compressed or uncompressed which can be used directly as a compressed S3TC texture or decompressed for standard use on earlier graphics cards.

Compressed textures can add alot of speed and detail to models and levels if they're used correctly.

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Simple
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Posted: 21st May 2003 16:43
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SO how do I use a .dds texture on a model and KEEP it in it's compressed state ??

Cos if I use a 512x512 .bmp texture, then thats 769k loaded into your RAM .... but a 512x512 .dds texture is only 129k

How can I keep that as 129k once the model and texture is loaded into RAM ??

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2003 21:25
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you load it as a compressed texture... if your graphics card supports a version of compression (S3TC most common) then it'll load compressed into the video memory, which is best used for things like static models and such ... but if you use them for Shaders or Sprites you'll want them to be loaded uncompressed

i think the flag is
load image "something.dds",1,1

or set image 1,0,1
something like that, look at the bottom of you dbpro editor it'll tell ya

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davidt
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Posted: 21st May 2003 23:20
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Give him a break!

That model looks amazing to me (although I am useless at modelling), and the textures are especially good. Remember that DarkBASIC is for game programming, and games have to be able to run at respectable speeds. Stop criticizing him because it does not look exactly perfect - DarkBASIC is not the fastest game engine around, so the gun cannot be perfectly to shape.

As I can't model at all, and I was going to start having a go, I was wondering how you made the model - e.g. what programs you used.

David

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actarus
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Posted: 21st May 2003 23:43
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He used a 3d software fo'cryin'outloud!does it matter which one?!?

Nevermind the attitude but the point is vlaid nevertheless.

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haXor
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 00:06
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thats pretty good. well no I lie. Thats really really good. lol. I wish i could model like that, but o well, maybe ill learn some day.....

Sup Kids
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TigerZ
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 00:23
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the texture work is very good, abit dark though, but nice still

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 03:36
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With regards to the boxy-angles Raven I have to disagree with you this time.

Without knowing where and how the model is going to appear in a game then it is impossible to judge the finer cosmetic details, especially those that raise the poly count.

If the weapon is to be held by a character onscreen then it's detailing is more than sufficient and texturing probably overly so - if the weapon is to appear infront of the camera ala Quake, then it needs a bit of smoothing on the sight - not the stock and grip as this would be predominantly off-camera.

Detailing in gun grips is a bit pointless unless the model is being made for the purpose of rendering a picture of a gun. ie. Making 2D sprites from the renders or similar - in just about every other situation the grip and stock would be obscured from the camera, therefor box shaped low polygon meshes are the ideal choice on weapon grips.

If the gun is to be used in the first person perspective than some more lateral depth wouldn't be a bad idea, the foregrip widdened, and top edges of the gun smoothed a bit - the rear section just cut-away as it would never be seen.

Anyway that's my feelings, this time i'm siding with Simple - which is a terribly uncomfortable situation...

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 03:50
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well i don't particularly care who sides with who, i think simple understands what i'm on about and thats all that matters.

all i can say is there is a line between the comments from the artists here and the hobbiests, maybe you believe the mesh is fine - but are you sure that it isn't just the fact of a pretty decent texture job clouding your judgement?

attention to detail and form ... for it is everything

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Simple
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 04:30 Edited at: 22nd May 2003 04:32
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Anyway that's my feelings, this time i'm siding with Simple - which is a terribly uncomfortable situation...

LOL !!

To be honest, and like I said earlier .... this riffle was really just a test. And it's use was to test some UVmapping techniques and ultimately test my texturing skills + I wanted to play around with different file formats.

But as I'm quite happy with how my texture turned out, I've decided to try and make this riffle universal... meaning that it could be used either as a "half on/half off camera model AND a totally on screen model.

So I will be adding some more detail and smoothing off the grip + butt ... and to compensate for the increase in poly's, I'll be deleting this scope and be making a new one ( more high tech looking but more squared ) ... so that will also put the polycount back to near where it was.

Now as everyone knows, I've had disagreements with both of you in the past.... but as of late there has been NO friction and comments have been mild.

And for once I actually agree ( but with both of you ) ... so, you've made your comments... lets leave it at that ?

Just one more thing >> when you get paid for your models ( it's not a hobbie )

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 04:39
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didn't know these other guys were getting paid do model, else i'd probably be putting some pretty brutally honest comments on thier work as well.

way i see it if someone pays for a service to be provided it's those who are being paid to make sure its to the highest quality they can possibly do...
and although as far as i'm conserned your modeling skills don't yet make you ready for commercial purposes your there now and should be passing of a level of work which is outstanding, not just to the everyday slack jaw yokels around this forum but to anyone who'll see it.

and to do this in a professional capacity there is never such a thing as off the clock, every peice of work should be learn from and understood how to improve for the future.

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Simple
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 05:17 Edited at: 22nd May 2003 05:24
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Well.... you obviouslly couldn't just leave your comments there could you ?

And come to think about it >>

QUOTE:
and although as far as i'm conserned your modeling skills don't yet make you ready for commercial purposes your there now and should be passing of a level of work which is outstanding, not just to the everyday slack jaw yokels around this forum but to anyone who'll see it.

I've still yet to see you produce something of a commercial quality and not just pass of the level of work you produce to the everyday slack jaw yokels around this forum ( as you put it )

I actually thought you might of just had some decent input for a change ( without any snide comments added ) but I was obviouslly wrong.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 13:00
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these aren't snide comments of any form, i'm perfectly serious and sincerly mean every last one.

just like the comments i've made on the model itself, there is no malice of anything ment in any of it ... i've said what i can see and i mean every word of it. You might think that doing this kind of thing is just a bit of fun and a big joke or something but i don't even slightly - so i will be giving yuou advice on howto improve your work.

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Simple
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 13:47
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Whether meant as snide or not, doesn't really matter.


QUOTE:
so i will be giving yuou advice on howto improve your work

Look raven: ....... whether you have good intentions or not. CAN YOU JUST GET ONE THING STRAIGHT IN YOUR HEAD >>>

I don't want any of your advice

So I would appreciate it if you just kept it to yourself or give it to other people.. cos I don't want it.

Can't say it politer than that can I ?

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arras
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 13:59
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:-s
I can't understand hove you can offend each other so often on this forum...

Raven>>> its not my buisenes, but just a word of friendly advice:
I like when people say their own opinions and not repeating just what they see somebody else to say, even if I don't have to agree with it. Your opinions are often worth to consider when you speak about something you know.
On the other hand you sometimes use to speak about things you obviously don't have much info about. But thats not realy a problem. Your problem is way hove you choose or better say not choose words you use when speaking with others.

Choose your ways of speaking to other people with care and with respect to them, othervise you can find yourself without friends...


Back to the model: I dont think that there should be more detail added, Its enough detailed in my eyes (always depend for what you plan to use it as PneumaticDryll sad of course)
I think that shape of rifle and proportions of some parts of it, especialy back part are bit wrong. Its too heavy looking. That can be improved without changing detail and polycount. Just work more flexible in all the axis, especialy in x axis (DB x axis) You were without reason restricting yourself little bit only to z and y axis and thats why it looks like if you would make it plain and then added depth to it. That's what Raven was criticizing at the begining.

But thats only my opinion and I make models for money for more than 10 years
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Van B
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 14:03
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and to do this in a professional capacity there is never such a thing as off the clock, every peice of work should be learn from and understood how to improve for the future.

So your saying you've never posted a model you made just for fun? - I know that isn't true Raven. At the end of the day, nobody really knows what the gun will end up as, so you can't really loose polygons - and adding more detail to the butt would be pointless - it'll most likely be in an armpit or against a shoulder - so it's unlikely that anyone would notice the straight edge. A lot of pro's would take any detail not seen in FPS views out - leaving half a model - that sickens me because it totally restricts it's use, right now it can be stuck anywhere and look cool.


Van-B

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 15:27
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Here we go!

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lcfcfan
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 21:41
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I dunno why everyone is slagging off this model it's cool and i would be pleased if i made something this good keep up the good work simple!

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actarus
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 22:29
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I haven't seen anyone 'slagging' the rifle so far.

It's the best model I've seen from Simple so far.

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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haXor
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 23:55
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i dunno, thats human gives it a run for its money, but there both awsome. I just started modeling last night (off to a shakey start lol) and I hope that I can do that one day

Sup Kids
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actarus
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 00:02
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-and I hope that I can do that one day

Soon my friend,you know,simple has been modeling for less than one year or almost...

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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Simple
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 00:06
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actarus is right ..... no one has slagged my model off. There's just a little difference of opinion on how it could be layed out ( polygonal wise that is )

As for my human model giving it a run for it's money ... all I can say is "watch this space" !!

My next human model will knock the living spots off of my last one. My last one was just for some testing... as was this riffle.

I'll post up a screeny with my next model holding his new riffle soon

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John H
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Ok, what I am about to say may sound stupid, or may make you think I am UTI, but I am completely sane when I say this...

Raven + Simple

Guys, lets just leave each other alone! You guys KNOW that a fight breaks out every time you talk (Your like Capulets and Montagues in Romeo and Juliet!) Cant we just take each others advise, and ignore comments, and not make them which are mean? Cmon guys! Lets just give it a try!

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actarus
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 15:07 Edited at: 23rd May 2003 15:07
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*spits blood and grins.

Right,unf,this has gone too far cough,cough...I'll keep'em away you run as far as you can!Now!!Blam,blam!Yiha!

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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 22:42
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@Raven

I looked through this forum for quite a while, but I haven't seen a single textured model form you. I agree that Simple needs to work on the gun (in a way that he already said), but with most of your models:

1) They are heavily based on an existing model, eg your Lara Croft one, this means that no expertise is needed to refine the angles / definitions in the mesh, copying models is easier than making new ones (that ain't comming from me, that is from a guy who has several years experience in 3DS Max)

Simple's ones have had at least SOME creative input.

2) All the images you show are untextured, and in some cases even flat shaded! - Which makes it difficult to judge the model accurately, with flat shaded models it is much easier just to rotate everything to a given angle where none of the defects are visible. IMO texturing makes this harder. (That is JUST my opinion)

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actarus
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-All the images you show are untextured, and in some cases even flat shaded! - Which makes it difficult to judge the model accurately

lol That's the stupidest thing I ever heard about 3D...It is quite the opposite but since you turn almost everything against Raven then go ahead and make a fool out of yourself again.

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John H
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Posted: 24th May 2003 01:01
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Oh jeeze guys can we just talk to simple about his model? Lets NOT make this a flaimbate.

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 24th May 2003 01:34
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them rifles rockx, beats my SOCOMs

*straps kevlar vest too, & loading 'em Nikita rocket launchers

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haXor
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hell, run for the hills!

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wkitching
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Posted: 24th May 2003 21:22
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Rifles is rather lickable.. i like it!

Ouch HS i can imagine the impact already

Keep up the good work.

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Rob K
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"That's the stupidest thing I ever heard about 3D..."

Whoops! Christ - what was I smoking?

Staying up for all of the previous night didn't do me any favours. Apologies all.

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Rob K
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Posted: 24th May 2003 22:15
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"simple has been modeling for less than one year or almost..."

Eh? - I have seen work from him dating back before them on RGT haven't I?

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Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th May 2003 22:32
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i think simple would say no you haven't... but if he had then all his little tet-du-tet with me on RGT would've been based with lies behind them.

not gonna comment on either cause i think it'd probably be as well recieved as my comments on the model itself and to be honest i don't really care. Think it is just amusing watching everyone squabble.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Simple
21
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Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th May 2003 22:50 Edited at: 24th May 2003 22:51
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Been 3D modeling since June 2002 - beed designing graphics and artwork since 1974.

I think everyone should hang up their flak jackets and put their guns/riffles back in the boxes now !!

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

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John H
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 25th May 2003 01:24
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Youve been doing artwork for about 2 times longer than I have lived (I am 14)

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Go to the Eternal Destiny Forum!
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medwayman
21
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: uk
Posted: 25th May 2003 04:12
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Modelling for less than a year!!! You make me sick! lol
Totally awesome work
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Wayne
21
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th May 2003 05:01
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It's a very good Unwrap, Simple. Pretty clean in terms of lining up the uvw's on the texture.

AIPX Rocks
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HeMan
20
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Joined: 26th May 2003
Location: - Please Select -
Posted: 26th May 2003 13:53
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Your models of of the guns are good, simple...but they shall never stand up to my Sword of Power....once I learn how to do modeling anyways- your weapons shall be broken BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL! lol

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Arrow
21
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Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 26th May 2003 16:42
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Uh huh, ok...

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
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actarus
21
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: 32 Light Years away
Posted: 26th May 2003 16:44 Edited at: 26th May 2003 16:46
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-Your models of of the guns are good, simple...but they shall never stand up to my Sword of Power....once I learn how to do modeling anyways- your weapons shall be broken BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL! lol

LOL!

BTW:Can't seem to see the pics now,did grey skull broke the website too !?!?

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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Simple
21
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Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th May 2003 16:50
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LOL !!!

*thy shall draw my sword and shoot you with it, while wearing my leather jeans jacket which smells a funny colour* !!

Oh, and I can see the screenies just fine.

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

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haXor
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 12th May 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 1st Jun 2003 08:18
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lol, ide like to see that...

Sup Kids
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