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2D All the way! / Attempt at drawing anime style characters

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Ric
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Posted: 26th May 2007 01:43 Edited at: 26th May 2007 01:46
I've seen some great artwork whilst browsing through this forum, which inspired me to have a go too! This is my first attempt at an anime style character - it started as a biro sketch on the back of an envelope, which I've played around with in paintshop ..... but I don't really know where to go with it from here.

Any comments or critism, (constructive or destructive - I don't mind!) welcomed.

Also - what do people do with something like this once it's finished anyway? Is there a place for 2d drawings in games, or is it pretty useless if it isn't animated?



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Xenocythe
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Posted: 26th May 2007 01:45
Great stuff man!

That doesn't look so bad.

I wanna test you...

Try drawing an assassin.

RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th May 2007 02:30
The only problem I can see is the eyes should be bigger than her entire body, if you're going for anime that is.

Ric
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Posted: 26th May 2007 18:51 Edited at: 26th May 2007 18:52
Attempt number 2 ........



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Xenocythe
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Posted: 26th May 2007 20:06
That looks really cool! This is Photoshop CS2, correct?

Roxas
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Posted: 26th May 2007 21:08
Well i havent never seen that style of manga :/ But it looks awesome still! Better than mine!





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Ric
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Posted: 26th May 2007 21:58
Quote: "This is Photoshop CS2, correct?"


No, Paintshop Pro. This one also started as a biro sketch on paper, but this time I posed a model in Daz Studio, and sketched that to get the proportions right. Then I scanned the sketch into PSP and worked from there. In PSP, pretty much the only things I used were the paintbrush and the smudge tool - and I just kept on painting on new layers, and blending them in, until I got what I got.

Quote: "Well i havent never seen that style of manga ...!"


Heh heh - me neither .... I'm just trying to grasp the basics. At the moment, they still look much more 'sketchy' than what I've seen done by others. Other people seem to get much 'cleaner' images.

Deathead
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Posted: 27th May 2007 01:42
Quote: "Heh heh - me neither .... I'm just trying to grasp the basics. At the moment, they still look much more 'sketchy' than what I've seen done by others. Other people seem to get much 'cleaner' images."

Let me help you with the eyes
First off the eyes need the Pupil and outer thingy to be inside the lines not about a cm away.

nice piece of work.
I have been drawing manga style drawings for ages now but still there is one problem that happens to me that is different parts of the body is a cm bigger than that one etc. it is so confusing.

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Ric
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Posted: 27th May 2007 11:46
Quote: "the eyes need the Pupil and outer thingy to be inside the lines not about a cm away"


Thanks - I think the eyes are the most important part - they are what makes it manga. I will spend some more time looking at some examples, and see if I can get it right.

Quote: "there is one problem that happens to me that is different parts of the body is a cm bigger than that one etc. it is so confusing."


I'd recommend using a reference picture or photo to draw the initial sketch from - and even trace the outline, to help get the proportions right. Daz Studio is also great for this - and free. You can set up any pose you want, and render it to a 2d drawing which you can then use as your reference.

Deathead
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Posted: 27th May 2007 11:52 Edited at: 27th May 2007 11:54
Quote: "I'd recommend using a reference picture or photo to draw the initial sketch from - and even trace the outline, to help get the proportions right. Daz Studio is also great for this - and free. You can set up any pose you want, and render it to a 2d drawing which you can then use as your reference."

Ric,
I didn't want to alarm you but i draw it from scratch on a piece of paper i not into manga -type- Studios thingys.

P.S. I use a Art of manga book from Amazon.
Which has the different sizes and thingys just found it today in cabient draws.
Man i never look.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 27th May 2007 13:02
Hey Ric, stay with that style mate, its unique from the rest of the anime world, you could stick out. It really reminds me of Miyazaki's drawings, if you don't know him he's done spirited away, castle in the sky, My Neighbor Tortoro,and my faovrite Princess Monoke. Cheers and good luck.

zenassem
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Posted: 27th May 2007 15:48 Edited at: 27th May 2007 15:50
Well the second pic looks better than the 1st. Even still it isn't all coming together right. Not being mean just honest. When I look at your drawing #2 Ric, this is what I see.

-The legs their postioning and size look good. Could use some tapering and thinning of the ankle.
-The head looks alright. But the lower part of the face and chin need to be cleaner (especially "her" left cheek), get rid of the smudge (on her right cheek) it's not giving it a good cheekbone effect and looks misplaced. I think the face could be a bit wider, more heart-shaped, and more expression to the mouth, given the pose.
-The neck is too wide and too long for her. To masculine like Conan's neck.
-The upper torso: This is what throws the whole drawing off. Not a bad attempt, but honestly redo it. Get some lines and dots down for the shoulder points. Everything is scrunched in at the shoulders, as if she is in serious pain.

I like "her" left arm, but not how it connects to the upper torso and shoulder. Kind of jammed up a bit.

Her right arm needs to be redone completely. From the shoulder to the hands. In comparison to the left arm, that hand should not be so big. It would be back further, reducing it's size. The length and everything is off compared to "her" left arm, in which you got the foreshortening technique down pretty good.

-The sword angle is off, she could not be holding it in her hand at that angle. From the arm, and the angle is what gives the sword no depth. It should be back further than her face the way you have it drawn, but it doesn't appear that way.

-Her chest and waste/stomach doesn't match the rest of the proportions. The breasts are off, too far out, and not a great shape under the clothing. This stems from the shoulder postioning, the neck.

-Finally think about the light source position when you are drawing. Draw arrows outside your drawing to keep yourself focused on that. Is it in front above your character? to the right to the left? directly above? Your shading on the face, compared to the arms is off. The torso also is higlighted incorrect.

Don't use the smudge tool so much, until everything is fine tuned.

Ric
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Posted: 27th May 2007 20:49
@Zombie: Thanks - I just had a look at some of Miyazaki's work - I like it a lot.


@Zenassem: that's great feedback - thank you very much, I found it very useful. I find that when you draw something, after a while, your eyes get used to it and you don't notice things which aren't right. I tend to flip it upside down or mirror it from time to time to try to see it with fresh eyes - but that's not as good as someone elses eyes.

I will have another go and take more care over the initial drawing, as most of the things you pointed out relate to proportion and placement. If I get the initial drawing right, the lines will probably be cleaner too.

Cheers.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 27th May 2007 21:34
Good stuff, good stuff. With all this great advice, I can't wait to see how your next piece art will turn out

indi
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Posted: 28th May 2007 15:47 Edited at: 28th May 2007 15:48
Quote: "-Finally think about the light source position when you are drawing. Draw arrows outside your drawing to keep yourself focused on that. Is it in front above your character? to the right to the left? directly above? Your shading on the face, compared to the arms is off. The torso also is higlighted incorrect. "
I agree here.


light is very important for mood and style, bad or odd proportions can be squeezed for arts sake but light that does not flow will detract from any design.

You have a good style and yes there are a few rough edges, but its a great attempt so far.

Your weight balance is spot on in the 2nd one.

Ric
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Posted: 28th May 2007 16:44
Quote: "Your weight balance is spot on in the 2nd one"


Thanks. I've never used a sword before, but I do play badminton! Before starting I considered how I prepare for a smash, and used that to get a rough idea of how the weight would be distibuted. I'm sure there must be quite a few badminton shots that could be translated to this kind of thing!

zenassem
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Posted: 29th May 2007 07:24
@Ric,

Thanks for taking my crit so well. Honestly I just read it back, and I realized how many things I pointed out.

So with that said, I am looking foward to your next drawing. Don't give up. I am a fairly decent artist, mainly on paper. I don't always translate it well to digital, even with a tablet PC at my disposal. I can do things so ellegantly and fast on paper. I generally scan my 2D work and use it as a background reference. Not sure if you have that available, but it helps me a great deal.

I myself tried to draw Manga as recently as 2 years ago. I purchase one of those "How to Draw Manga" books from borders. Honestly it really helped. The best part of the series is when they analyze a students work. The work looks professional to my eyes, and when they crit it, and go over what is wrong, it blows me away. It helped me see things that I was doing wrong.

So good luck with everything and keep it up. I'm sorry if my post seemd so negative. I can be brutally honest at times. I should have said some more things that I thought you had right to balance it a bit.

Ric
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Posted: 29th May 2007 11:15
Quote: "I'm sorry if my post seemd so negative. I can be brutally honest at times. I should have said some more things that I thought you had right to balance it a bit."


Not at all - I take critisism very well and would rather the brutally honest approach. When I post attempt 3 I want you to be just as critical - it's much more helpful for someone who atually wants to get better.

A tablet would be brilliant - I have been thinking about getting one, just not sure I can justify it at the moment.

indi
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Posted: 29th May 2007 12:41
you should really consider a lightbox prior to a tablet.
When I was a tweener at Disney, I grew to love them more so then the tablets Ive owned over the years.

you can make your own with the styrofoam of a large boxed white good, a peice of perspex and break a lamp so your left with the cord and the switch, then buy a tungsten light etc.
scanning in these elements to adobe streamline will give you a vector immediately.

If you do take a tablet approach, get some blue tac and cardboard, this way you get the friction back which allows for better circular action.

zenassem
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Posted: 29th May 2007 20:49
Good tips indi.

Is Adobe Streamline part of the Adobe CS2 suite. (I think that's right). Anyway I have it, and haven't installed it yet. I still use photoshop 7.0

Never thought about creating my own lightbox, have used one in the past to translate artowork onto higher-quality fiber paper.

BTW, didn't know you worked for Disney at one time. Sounds interesting.

I tried using external Wacom tablets, but always felt they were to small. My toshiba satelite laptop is a tablet PC, but like you said, it just doesn't feel right. No resistance.

indi
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Posted: 30th May 2007 04:12
streamline has been super-seeded after version 4, however I really liked it.
Its now bundled into illustrators toolset.
http://www.adobe.com/products/streamline/index.html

tbh, I didnt like working at disney in sydney on winnie the poo. I came in just before the ferntree gully artists were selected.
It was 2 months before I had enough.

However it launched my own business after I managed to get into that industry as an inbetweener.
You had to be there ten years for an animators job. I did the frames after the animator posed the keyframes. My first week i was down $80 as well because the mickey jacket you "had" to buy was more expensive then my first weeks salary.

Paper over the tablet stuck with blu tac gives you back the resistance and a larger tablet always helps with this 9 x 6 minimum. Reverse the tablets pen as well so the stylus is the eraser and the eraser is the stylus, it reduces having to buy new stylus nibs over time.

zenassem
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Posted: 30th May 2007 16:47 Edited at: 30th May 2007 18:18
Decided to edit out. It was hijacking RIC's thread.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 31st May 2007 02:22
Hey ric, how are the drawings coming???

MikeS
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 22:27
I like the second one a lot better than the first. It's a bit more realistic, while retaining some of the anime style characteristics for simplicity. I find that matches my art style a bit. I'm just not a die hard fan of anime, but incorporating it with a more realistic approach is very effective.

I think 2D drawings of sketches and stuff can be used in games, but in rather limited areas. Perhaps if you have a narrator in the background, you can flash some 2D sketches. What I do with mine, is I like to put the 2D sketches of the original characters in loading screens and stuff. I'm sure fans of games(not particularly mine) like to see the origins of characters.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
wildbill
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 00:20
I think there is a lot of potential here. What would be nice is for you to do the drawing in front/side/back views. Then you could use that as a reference for some nice 3d work.
Hummanoid Typhoon
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 23:17 Edited at: 6th Jun 2007 23:20
not bad first attempts i'm learning to draw anime myself. There is a book called How to Draw Anime and Game Characters - Volume 1 it's really good it covers alot of the basic principles. Very helpful as it shows beginners attempts and compares them to a professionals work pointing out the flaws. I'm sure it's floating about in ebook form somewhere.

I can give you a few quick tips from what I know.

1: Avoid unsure/fuzzy lines it's best to draw a single neat line from point a-b instead of 20 short not quite right lines.

2: Sketch out a frame with simple shapes first ensuring the centre of gravity is correct (i.e. character is not defying physics) and that the preportions of limbs are correct. (your girl has sightly out of preportion legs and one breast looks bigger the centre of gravity is also slightly too far out even for an action shot)

3: Finish the details hands and feet are essential to a polished looking drawing make sure every element is drawn fully i.e. don't skimp on a necklace because it's small figure out how it will be moving and it's atitude and draw the detail.

Anyway good work so far!

{EDIT} Just noticed that book has already been reccomended above

Ric
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 10:05 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 10:09
Thanks for the tips. Ok, I've started again .....



I have tried to address a number of points raised above, starting with the basic line art - I have tried to be more decisive and less sketchy to get a cleaner look. The ankles are more tapered, and I have actually tried to draw the toes and fingers this time! Her right arm is meant to appear as if it is reaching behind her head, so I have tried to foreshorten it by making the upper arm section shorter. The sword is meant to appear as if it is coming towards you, so again I have shortened it to give a foreshortening effect, rotated the wrist slightly, and made the pointed end of the sword slightly larger than the other end. (Not sure if it really works though - I can't seem to get much depth.) I have made her head slightly larger, which I think makes her neck look slightly more slender, and I have shifted her left breast over a bit to her right, to make her upper torso appear more rotated around her hips, rather than making her shoulders look scrunched. Oh, and the eyes went horribly wrong, so I've erased them for the time being and will add them in later!

I'll post updated pics so people can see what I'm doing in each step, rather than just posting a final version.

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zenassem
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 10:34 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 10:55
@Ric, Looks really good. I am impressed with the work you have put in. I like all of the changes that you made, and can honestly say, that this should come out nicely. I really think the outfit change suits the drawing better. I only have concerns on two areas, and one of them [#2] is more personal taste.

#1. It's probably the toughest part of the piece, but I'm still not sure the sword angle and grip is where it needs to be. Although I'll admit, I would have a hard time suggesting what needs to be changed. I would honeslty need to use Poser to see it better. Which I will do tomorrow and if it offers any insight i'll post it for you. I think that if it's coming at the viewer, the hand position would need to be rotated (ever so slightly).

#2. This is perhaps just about personal style. While yours is probably more realistic, I would raise the starting points of the breasts a bit. I feel there may be too much space between the end of the neck and the cleavage poiint. Perhaps some thinning of the armpit-shoulder at the her right arm. I might exagerate the tapering of the waste a bit more. Like I said, yours IS more realistic though.

edit:
Last bit, I "think: (not sure) her left calf->ankle needs to thin slightly, a bit ar the front (shin), and a bit at the back (calf/ankle). Yet it will look different when shaded, so it might be fine as-is!

Hummanoid Typhoon
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 11:40
thats a definite improvment! The detail in the hands, feet and clothing add a more professional touch.

It's much easier to analyse in that form. Skipping the lack of a face I would give these tips.

1: her right thigh is slightly too large

2: To make her more anime like thin her waist, anime girls tend to have a waist that is not physically possible the preportions depend on her age but I would say if you use a large figure eight as a body template. Top circle smaller than bottom you should get a close approximation.

3: I'm not very good at doing this myself but the skirt is very useful for action shots. If used correctly you can show different directions of movement by how it is flying. Your skirt has a wave at the front which looks out of place try to visualise the 3D shape of the leg and how it would deform the material. Also it is being blown to the right quite considerably mabey let it go a bit more backwards to emphasise her forward movement

Overall very good keep it up! I've been sketching a few characters for my next project if I get time I'll scan one in. It would be great if you guys can give me some feedback/constructive criticism hopefully help me improve.

Ric
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 12:05 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 12:07
Yes - the sword grip area is causing me problems! I've tried to rotate the wrist even more in this one, and exagerate the foreshortening effect on the blade - but it still looks more like a short sword than a long sword pointing towards you! Difficult, but I may be able to get more depth with some shading later.

I've thinned the right shoulder/upper arm as suggested - and as you can see, added some skin tone layers.

When you say the 'starting point' of the breasts - where do you mean - the inner cleavage? Or do you mean raise the whole bust area?

Cheers.





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Ric
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 13:04 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 13:05
Ah yes - now that I've given her a breast reduction, I can see that she was quite full chested!





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MikeB
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 13:59
Wow this is really nice .

E.D.

zenassem
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 15:31 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 15:34
Ric,

I think you got it!. And yes, the change to the bust looks right now. I like the change to the hand rotation.

-I think you can add more detail to the sword handle/hilt; lenghten the handle a bit

- On second look, I have to agree Hummanoid Typhoon about the right-thigh. More specifically than being too large, if you followed the inner-thigh line, I don't think it would meet her left thight at the groin area properly.

- Might want to make a minor correction on the sillouette lines of the right shoulder (the one holding the sword) and bicept.

- Fix the right foots big toe, while It's also a tough angle to draw, right now it looks like it's sticking up and broken.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 07:09
Wow, you're amazing.

I don't understand how you can so flawlessly add those colors to each other to show light, and therefore create an illusion of depth on an actual 2D image.

I can't do that for my life. I try in photoshop, it looks horrible.

How did you know to pick those exact colors, and where to color in correctly?

Ric
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 20:11
Thanks for the latest suggestions Zen - I'll try and work those into the next update.

@Xenocythe: thanks - I don't really think the skin shading is quite right yet - I probably need to think more carefully where the light is coming from - but here's how I did it so far:

First pick a light skin tone - if you can't find one, load up a picture of a person and use the pipette tool (in Paintshop it is anyway) to get a colour that looks right. As you can see, I painted a blob of that colour on the picture. Then, I just adjusted the lightness/darkness of the same colour to produce a few different tones and painted blobs of those too - changing just the lightness/darkness makes the skin tones more complementary to each other than if you picked different colours.

Then, using the pipette again to grab a pale skin tone from the blobs, I just painted (on a new layer) all the skin in the same colour all over. Then I created another layer, and picked a colour a bit darker, and painted in just the areas I though should be a bit darker. And then the fun bit - get the smudge tool, and smudge the new layer until it blends in nicely with the previous one - and use the eraser to clean up the edges. Then start a new layer, and an even darker colour, and keep going like that - putting the highlights on last.

Also - by the side of my moniter, I've got one of those artist's figures, where you can change the pose, shine a light on it and see where the shadows are. I picked it up for a couple of pounds and find it's quite useful for this.

MikeB
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 21:53
Quote: "I've got one of those artist's figures"


I'm getting one of those when I can be bothered to go into town, should help a lot.

Brilliant work Ric,

E.D.

Hummanoid Typhoon
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 23:40
@Xenocythe
in relation to skin tones i find other anime is a good source. Find a picture/sprite that has the skin color you want and use the shades from it. It also prevents the temptation to add hundreds of colors when a 2 or 3 will do

Xenocythe
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 18:43
Thank you very much

That information has helped me get a better understanding of how this lighting technique works.

If you don't mind, can I post my first attempt on this thread?

Thanks

Deathead
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 19:33
nice ric.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Ric
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 20:51
Thanks Deathead.

@Xeno: of course - please do, it would be good to see other peoples stuff too.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 5th Jul 2007 02:47
I've bumped this thread to see how Ric is doing with his pictures, I really like the style he was developing. So Ric, have you any new pictures to show us??

Ric
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Posted: 6th Jul 2007 14:38
Haven't done any more for a while - I got stuck when it came to doing the eyes on the warrior girl. Eyes have always been the trickiest bit for me - they never seem to look quite right! I don't think it's just the shape of the eyes, but it's getting them in the right place too - I probably need to practice more!

Roxas
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Posted: 6th Jul 2007 15:37 Edited at: 6th Jul 2007 15:37
Heres mine newest creation lol

Rinoa from Final Fantasy VIII




[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]

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Deathead
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 14:26
Damn it Roxas you made me spill my coffee. Nice one.

da power pwnerer
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 21:18
lol


http://Freewebs.com/noobisoft
Come to Noobisoft's website today!
Oneka
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Posted: 29th Jul 2007 22:39


This is what my sister does, so this can probably help you to a degree

I just wanted to show it


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
Ric
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 00:18 Edited at: 30th Jul 2007 00:18
Very nice work - is that all hand coloured (as opposed to done on a computer)?

Oneka
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 06:29
yes its all done by hand, she can do computer but the majority atm is on hand because her comp is broken


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
Deathead
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 21:03
Wow! Oneka Tell your sis that is really awesome and really great! Because that is one really great piece of work!

Libervurto
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 30th Jul 2007 21:50
Your pics are awesome, much better than animé
I don't know what the big deal with animé is; it looks crap!
And who has ever laughed like this "Gah!" its ridiculous.

I am King of the noobs!

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