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Program Announcements / Axes of Evil!!! Some screenshots of the upcoming demo

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Glennyboy
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Jun 2003 11:30 Edited at: 20th Jun 2003 16:13
Dryll: Right, now you're putting an explanation for every single word/phrase in there, as some kind of sarcastic commentry on... me asking you not to make sweeping statements. Do you need me to define "sweeping statement" or something? Well, it's a statement where a large quantity of people or things are lumped under one heading. It does not apply to phrases in everyday use, it applies to subjective opinion.

Umm... anyway, enough on that. I made my point.

I actually came in here to say: Yarbles, your game looks very impressive indeed. A possible flagship release for DB. Well done, sir.

ceocan2
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:47
That looks great, wish I could do that

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 01:14
Quote: "I didn't say 'most' I said 'several' and yes, I do know them. I personally don't buy the 'daily contact with 4 mods', but whatever floats your boat, Raven..."


And whatever you say goes.

Quote: "Would you two MOVE THIS TOPIC ELSEWHERE? Create a relevant thread in general discussion. I'm shocked that both of you are too childish to do that."


You insulted us both here, we're not going to leave these insults left un-answered. It's sad but your bickering has destroyed this guys announcement thread, so much so that he wont even accept the help I offered him now - courtesy of your childishness you've tainted the water for everyone who was trying to swim in it.

Your a bitter and twisted individual and I do wish you would stop doing things like this.

However, it's a public forum so the rest of us will just have to continue to put up with this, your recent rantings have destroyed what credit you have left around here, so hopefully soon you will get the message.

Hopefully when the game is released it'll have a new thread and you'll just shut the hell up and leave it be. I certainly will limit any suggestions should I have any to email just so you dont feel incited enough to go stirring trouble again.

It's a sad state of affairs when a forum is denied the opportunity to discuss positive ideas, but what else are we to do about you?

Pneumatic Dryll
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 01:23
I didn't see second page when I posted the above.

Glennyboy my post was indeed sarcastic, but what i'm actually doing is giving my reasoning with example instead of the actual content of the post. I had hoped it was a more amusing way to make my point.

Perhaps i'll explain the original disagreement with a little more clarity: I am English. My recent lineage is Welsh and Irish (to the extent I could play international football for all 3 according to the rules, if I could master the basic 'kick' i'd even be skilled enough for the Welsh squad).

So I don't speak about Anglo-Irish relations without first hand knowledge of the subject, and whilst any generalisation may not apply to everyone I see no reason why any reasonably accurate opinion cannot be taken on it's merits just because it is non-specific, especially when exemptions are to the detriment of fluid communication.

If you don't believe me, during the next world cup pop across the border wearing an England shirt.

Pneumatic Dryll
Ian T
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 05:14 Edited at: 21st Jun 2003 05:22
I have no intrests in spreading this stupid argument further. I'm going to clear my posts in this thread.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Glennyboy
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 12:59
Quote: "So I don't speak about Anglo-Irish relations without first hand knowledge of the subject, and whilst any generalisation may not apply to everyone I see no reason why any reasonably accurate opinion cannot be taken on it's merits just because it is non-specific, especially when exemptions are to the detriment of fluid communication."

Well, here's the reason. I have no idea how often the Irish cheer for the English football team. Either way, you assert that the majority of Irish don't. Okay. Then, because some English cheer for the Irish team, you say this shows just how much more tolerant the English are. Then you suggest I go to Ireland wearing an England shirt. This will, supposedly, show me how much less tolerant the Irish are than the English.

Hey, I can do that, too. The English are a very intolerant people. Don't believe me? Go to Liverpool wearing a Man Utd shirt.

There's my problem with your generalisation. There's nothing wrong with generalisations if they follow the line of best fit, but as far as I can see, the English and the Irish are as bad as each other.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 17:02
I never said the English where more tolerant than the Irish, only that English are very tolerant. If you feel that English tolerance is more than Irish tolerance or vice versa then good for you.

However in the example, specifically, that you keep questioning the facts remain. In your counter example I cite that I am not aware of Manchester United fans committing acts of terrorism against Liverpool fans.

The Irish have their merits but love of the English certainly isn't one of them, and yet we still love them back, and wish them all the best. And by Irish, I do meen the Republic. Northern Ireland is a very different place - whether you want it to be or not.

Pneumatic Dryll
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 17:44
Quote: "Go to Liverpool wearing a Man Utd shirt"

lol ... there are ManU fans all over England, it doesn't matter where you are in the UK - you ain't gonna have anything happen to you just for wearing a shirt of another team.

It might not seem like it on the surface cause the news only covers the thugs of the sport, but that is only a fraction of all supporters that act in that mannor... most people support anyteam they like and although you might get stick from your mates & guys down the pub for supporting ::cough-watford-cough:: it doesn't mean they're gonna treat you like you have the plauge.
It ain't the english who are intolerant, but that said i've never been treated badly whenever i've been in ireland.
Sure Northen Ireland is a different atmosphere to Ireland, but that doesn't mean they go around thuggin' any English people they find.

ya know the only real areas which have a true problem with the English are the boarder town, even then its only certain area's of the towns like anywhere.

I think there are alot of misconceptions being thrown around eitherside from the news and old stories ...

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
Glennyboy
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 18:29
Quote: "In your counter example I cite that I am not aware of Manchester United fans committing acts of terrorism against Liverpool fans."

Nor am I aware of Ireland fans committing acts or terrorism against England fans. I am aware of a fringe element of the Irish population committing acts of terrorism against the English. I am also aware of a fringe element of English football fans committing acts of violence against other English football fans. You simply can't take that as an indicator of what the population of a country is like.

Quote: "I never said the English where more tolerant than the Irish, only that English are very tolerant."

Oh please. You gave an example of Irish behaviour, then English behaviour, and then said that it shows how much more tolerant England is. If you didn't mean more than Ireland, what did you mean?

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 18:37
Quote: " If you didn't mean more than Ireland, what did you mean?"


Please re-read the original post and see where the comparison was being drawn from, it remains there unedited.

However it was never my intention to discuss the politics of Ireland, clearly no amount of forum discussion between two politically inconsequential parties is ever going to change anything - and over 25 years of troubles are'nt going to go away if we manage to convince each other of our views.

We'll not get anywhere with this debate, so I appologise for miss-representing Ireland as that was never my intention - I am afterall of Irish descent, I was trying to give a real world example and did not intend to enter a full debate on the intricacies of a fued dating back to medieval times.

This I feel serves as example as to how forum communication is often an inadequate meens of expression.

Pneumatic Dryll
Glennyboy
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 18:39
Quote: "lol ... there are ManU fans all over England, it doesn't matter where you are in the UK - you ain't gonna have anything happen to you just for wearing a shirt of another team."

Heh, I guess Man U was a bad example, but there are instances of football-related violence around England. I'm not saying it's typical of England. In fact, my exact point is that it's not.

Quote: "It ain't the english who are intolerant, but that said i've never been treated badly whenever i've been in ireland.
Sure Northen Ireland is a different atmosphere to Ireland, but that doesn't mean they go around thuggin' any English people they find."

The Republic is fine. No one's bothered down there. It was something of a revelation when I first visited. In Northern Ireland, yes, you may in some places have a problem if you wander round with an English accent. But the same would be true in England if the roles were reversed. It's unusual circumstances, and can't be taken as an indication that all Irish are intolerant. I will concede, however, that, speaking as a native of there, Northern Ireland has a shameful degree of violence relating to nationality and religion. That doesn't make the Irish as a people intolerant. Things are just heated in Northern Ireland, like in just about any country where soldiers from a different country hover on street corners with loaded weapons, and where people have long memories of British Army soldiers firing on protesters.

Quote: "ya know the only real areas which have a true problem with the English are the boarder town, even then its only certain area's of the towns like anywhere."

Yeah, my old neighbourhood over there is pretty rough. I couldn't go back now, because I sound too English.

Quote: "
I think there are alot of misconceptions being thrown around eitherside from the news and old stories ..."

Again, my point. We can pull examples out of our arses all day, but we couldn't say either country is particularly tolerant or intolerant. I could say that England is intolerant for stationing troops and building army bases in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't call that a tolerant attitude at all. But that's not my opinion of England. Both countries are as bad, I just do not appreciate being tarnished with the same brush that would cover a minority. I am not intolerant. Impatient, opinionated, and sometimes an arse, yes. But that's another story.

Wow, crikey, this has really stretched on... sorry, Yarbles.

Glennyboy
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 18:53 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2003 18:53
Quote: "Please re-read the original post and see where the comparison was being drawn from, it remains there unedited."


I did, just to make sure. Before and after you say "it does show how much more tolerant England is" you make reference to Ireland (I assume the "bomb" bit is a reference to Irish terrorism). It certainly reads like you are comparing the two, but I understand if you were being broader in scope.

Quote: "I was trying to give a real world example and did not intend to enter a full debate on the intricacies of a fued dating back to medieval times."

Well, me neither. Aside from wishing they would stop, I don't have much to say about them. I was also just trying to use a real world example, saying that you can't equate tolerance with what some see as an occupation.

But never mind, you're right, we've nothing really to go on about. I apologise if I overreacted.

EDIT: At least we outlasted Mouse

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 06:15
'You simply can't take that as an indicator of what the population of a country is like.'

Well, someone has a small percentage of sanity left at least.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
medwayman
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 06:49 Edited at: 24th Jun 2003 06:50
Amazing Screens great work

Asteroids name: Snaggletooth
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 09:50
Quote: " I could say that England is intolerant for stationing troops and building army bases in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't call that a tolerant attitude at all. But that's not my opinion of England."


Bases were for the protection of the English & English-Irish Citizens who lived there, perhaps it doesn't seems very tollerant but as the alternative was to let innocent people die because of racial hatred - there are always 2 sides to a story, they're always told by those on each side of the fense. The only way to get the full story is to listen to both sides and then come up with a comprimise of the "given" truths.
Sure the English shot at protestors and demonstrators, however look at the way you said it. You haven't said why they were shot at, and British Troops are not above the law - if they shoot without probable cause even in a war, they are courtmarshalled.

Now that could then be argued that they were ordered to fire on innocent protestors and most likely make out those involved were martyrs of some kinda, but the more likely truth that it was in defense of either themselves or to protect other innocent people.
Somewhere down the line a military presence almost always = the bad guys ... but sometimes it is a nessisary evil to actually keep the peace, they are there so that they never need to be used, but if they do need to be used then they are there to stop things before they get too out of hand.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
Glennyboy
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 11:35
Quote: "Bases were for the protection of the English & English-Irish Citizens who lived there, perhaps it doesn't seems very tollerant but as the alternative was to let innocent people die because of racial hatred - there are always 2 sides to a story, they're always told by those on each side of the fense. The only way to get the full story is to listen to both sides and then come up with a comprimise of the "given" truths.
Sure the English shot at protestors and demonstrators, however look at the way you said it. You haven't said why they were shot at, and British Troops are not above the law - if they shoot without probable cause even in a war, they are courtmarshalled."

Thanks, Raven, but I know all this. My point was that it's easy to look at something without taking into account the context, and then generalise. I was not saying that the army bases are unnecessary. Look at what you quoted from me:

Quote: "I could say that England is intolerant for stationing troops and building army bases in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't call that a tolerant attitude at all. But that's not my opinion of England.
"


I know there's two sides to it, believe me. I didn't say why protesters were fired on because I don't really know. I simply brought it up as an example of the wider context.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jun 2003 13:38
yeah i know... i just had to say something about it is all

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason

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