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FPSC Classic Product Chat / ESRB Rating Costs!!! Cheaper than you think.

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 02:24
I got this back from the ESRB today:

Entertainment Software Rating Board
c/o Publisher Account Requests
317 Madison Avenue, 22nd Fl.
New York, NY 10017

ESRB will generally contact submitting companies within five business days of receipt of these materials. If your registration is confirmed, your designated ESRB contact person will receive a User Name and Password via the e-mail address provided.

A standard game submission to ESRB costs $4,000. We have a reduced rate of $800 for games with development costs below $250,000.

We hope this helps, and thanks again for your message.

Regards,

Entertainment Software Rating Board

Cool Huh!!!


Wraith Games... Play Harder
Airslide
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 02:29
Well $800 is way better than $4,000. Although non-profit my....er...bottom...


Vote today and play the games!
incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 04:25 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 04:55
So people pay up to 4grand just to have someone rate their game? What a bunch of suckers. I can't beleive the world fell for that.

I went through their site and I was not impressed.

the only reason that they got so big is that they approached the right people at the right time in just the right way. If things had not happened in just the right way they would have never made it.

They don't play the entire game. If you don't see the entire game then how can you say that if it is appropriate or not?

There doesn't seem to be any set system used to rate the games. They have descritors but they don't seem to have a formula. The rating that a game gets seems to be based on the opinion of the person rating it. The person that is rating the game could be a church going god fearing individual or the could be an axe murderer. There is no way to know what motivated the rating of any game. They leave it up to people to put it all together in their minds as to how thw game got the rating. The sticker has the names of descriptors that tell what is in the game. Are the descriptors correct? Did the rater just see a little of the game and assume that it gets more graphic? There is no way for parents to know. They just place allot of trust in these people that they don't even know.

What is needed is a rating body that gets involved more. A body that places a rating on the games that children play should take a proactive stance. It should get involved with parents of the children that will be playing the games that they rate. An event to increase awareness now and then wouldn't hurt. Promotional materials that keep the issue in sight would be good to.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
AlanC
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 04:47
Why do they charge $3,200 less for a game rating if the company spends less then $250,000? Like is it for freeware games only? Or non published?

incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 04:50 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 04:59
So people pay up to 4grand just to have someone rate their game? What a bunch of suckers. I can't beleive the world fell for that.

I went through their site and I was not impressed.

the only reason that they got so big is that they approached the right people at the right time in just the right way. If things had not happened in just the right way they would have never made it.

They don't play the entire game. If you don't see the entire game then how can you say that if it is appropriate or not?

There doesn't seem to be any set system used to rate the games. They have descritors but they don't seem to have a formula. The rating that a game gets seems to be based on the opinion of the person rating it. The person that is rating the game could be a church going god fearing individual or the could be an axe murderer. There is no way to know what motivated the rating of any game. They leave it up to people to put it all together in their minds as to how thw game got the rating. The sticker has the names of descriptors that tell what is in the game. Are the descriptors correct? Did the rater just see a little of the game and assume that it gets more graphic? There is no way for parents to know. They just place allot of trust in these people that they don't even know.

What is needed is a rating body that gets involved more. A body that places a rating on the games that children play should take a proactive stance. It should get involved with parents of the children that will be playing the games that they rate. An event to increase awareness now and then wouldn't hurt. Promotional materials that keep the issue in sight would be good to.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Slayer222
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 04:57
I know some games with blood get of with a teen rating well others get slapped with an M? I mean that is so wacky IMO,
*Slayer_2

EOT
[img][/img]
Check it out here: http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 05:00 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 05:00
It does seem a little screwed up. doesn't it?




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 06:01
yup it's bull. And I can't see what qualifies them. heck anybody has the right to declare "I am fit to judge games for its content". I'm pro independant type rating systems that don't charge. If they really want to try and accomidate the independant developer, they would come down even more. i'ts like taking a $400.00 loss imeadiately.


incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 06:29
Its about keeping the poor people poor and the rich people rich. It's the almighty dollar. That's why I like the system that I have setup. No its not free but it is affordable and the games will get a fare rating.





Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 08:05
that's what I'm saying. An affordable system for the indie developer is fine, but man ESRB thinks they are doing us a favor and they really are not.


PresFox
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 08:53 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 09:01
Problem is, the buyers think ESRB is better

i dont even think you can sell a game on the US market without ESRB rating

Also, what makes you better? What makes you egligable to rate games?

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
fallen one
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 09:33 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 09:34
i dont even think you can sell a game on the US market without ESRB rating

So then ultimately they have the power to veto your game then, no rating no ditribution. Orwell is spinning in his grave.

Perhaps we should do a list of indie ratings boards.
I say this, if shops don't stock games without ESRB, then take a hike, release it digitally. eventually bricks and mortar store will die of for digital products eventually.

Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 10:24
Quote: "I say this, if shops don't stock games without ESRB, then take a hike, release it digitally."

i agree completely. Is the ESRB governmentally funded or just an organization that says 'were your only choice"?


Ertlov
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 10:46
Quote: "Quote: "I say this, if shops don't stock games without ESRB, then take a hike, release it digitally."
i agree completely. Is the ESRB governmentally funded or just an organization that says 'were your only choice"?
"


I agree with both of you. The problem is, that you have a rating system almost everywhere. In Europe you have PEGI, and in Germany (which is actually a part of Europe) you have in addition to that USK, with such harsh rules that almost no shooter hits the market without huge loads of censorship.

While you (and I) have the choice to use digital / online publishing, a German selling his unrated game online will most likely be listed on the "Index" if the game is violent. And if he continues selling it, he goes straight to jail...

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 11:11
Quote: "a German selling his unrated game online will most likely be listed on the "Index" if the game is violent. And if he continues selling it, he goes straight to jail..."

My god man, I know the budget wasn't super high for Andersons but how much of it went on the rating system just to avoid a jail term? Or does the publisher take care of that sort of thing?


crispex
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 13:35
Quote: "I agree with both of you. The problem is, that you have a rating system almost everywhere. In Europe you have PEGI, and in Germany (which is actually a part of Europe) you have in addition to that USK, with such harsh rules that almost no shooter hits the market without huge loads of censorship."


That's sad, but Germans care for the sanity and welfare of their sanity, they're a very smart people, censorship is a tad bit uneccesary, but at times is needed.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
Ertlov
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 14:08 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 14:40
Quote: "My god man, I know the budget wasn't super high for Andersons but how much of it went on the rating system just to avoid a jail term?"


The local butchery here had a flash game online advertising their latest poultry salami.
http://www.schwarzepute.at/index.asp?Seite=669&Lg=1
The budget for that flash game was higher than the total budget of Anderson including loca...

However, rating is paid by the publisher.
btw: Sent you a mail right now

Quote: "That's sad, but Germans care for the sanity and welfare of their sanity, they're a very smart people, censorship is a tad bit uneccesary, but at times is needed."


I agree on it particularly, but the problem is that even adults cannot get a German uncut version then...

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 15:37 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 15:53
Quote: "Problem is, the buyers think ESRB is better"


That’s because it has been rammed down their throats. They have a foot hold that’s for sure. They stay on top because no one tries to do what they do in the same way. They are seen as the authority only because they have people convinced they are. The fact of the matter is that their system is severely flawed and they keep people from noticing that by filling the air with hype.

Quote: "i dont even think you can sell a game on the US market without ESRB rating"


Lack of a rating from a certain source cannot bar you from selling a game. There is no private body that can enforce that. Certain businesses have what’s called implied authority. That means that they lead people to believe that they have certain powers by their actions but never come right out and say it. People usually fall for it and that is their only power. Problem at this point is that allot people believe that the power is really there when it isn’t.

Quote: "Also, what makes you better? What makes you egligable to rate games?"


Better is a matter of perspective. I have attended and graduated from the William Glasser program. You can find info on that at http://www.wglasser.com/. I have counseled troubled youths and families. I have spent years looking after 2 girls that are now in their teen years. I am confrontation Intervention De-escalation Certified. I have taught martial arts to children and assisted in home schooling. I do have some experience and knowledge on the subject. Am I perfect? No. Are there people better qualified? Yes. But I am at least "eligible" because of experience and common sense to recognize things that certain age groups should not be exposed to. That makes me just as "eligible" to rate games as anyone else that does it.

Quote: "agree completely. Is the ESRB governmentally funded or just an organization that says 'were your only choice"?"


They just say that they are "it" and people fall for it. No one has ever gone to jail in the USA for selling a game without a rating.

The biggest reason that this sort of thing fails is because of Non-participation. No one will use a site untill someone else does. The only way anything like this is going to do anyone any good is if people start posting in the forums and commenting on things they find here.




[/i]

Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Ertlov
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 15:45
Quote: "They just say that they are "it" and people fall for it. No one has ever gone to jail in the USA for selling a game without a rating."


That`s right, but stores won`t put up games into the shelves without rating.

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
Buy Anderson:
https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html?partenaire=33&id_titre=354&langue_page=en
incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 16:09 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 16:11
Then it's time that people had an alternative. I am in the process of contacting the store chains that are not partners with any rating company. If they say that they will accept a new rating then we are in like flyn. If not then we will sell them through other means. There are things like trade shows and independant vendors and more. I have started the ball rolling for an Inde game magazine. It will have articles on the games that come out of the Inde community and will also promote the IGRC rating system.

We do have a choice. Lets make people see that and then the little guy won't have to stay little.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Johan_D
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 16:29
Well, I am happy to rate any game, for free. And you will get my own personal rating.
I guess anyone can rate anything. If it has any value? Probably not, but anyones rating is as good. Why dont we start and rating site for FPSC games?

Johan

A little less conversation, and a little more action please!
PresFox
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 16:59
if you are that serious about this, at least consider getting real hosting, and a top level domain name. People wont be seeing you as anything close to a business entity without that.

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
xplosys
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 17:07
Quote: "That`s right, but stores won`t put up games into the shelves without rating."


That really is the bottom line. Whether or not the ESRB is qualified, ripping people off, has a stronghold, etc, etc, doesn't matter. The major stores won't sell games that are not ESRB rated because they don't want the lawsuits. If you bypass them, you are limiting yourself to a much, much smaller retail market, and in most cases, to digital download.

It's not impossible to start a new rating system and get it recognized, but it's going to take money and inside contacts to the gaming industry, publishers, and retailers. Putting up a rating website is a great start, but alone is little more than that.

Some one said that the ESRB is where it is because people perceive it to be so. Well yeah, isn't that the objective? What does it take to get yourself in that position? Cost to the developer is a sure fire way to do it, but what are they paying for? Is it on the same level of perception as the ESRB? Will retailers and publishers treat it with the same trust and assurance?

If you tell someone something enough times, it becomes a fact. It's called advertising, and it's expensive. If there is another way, please let me know what it is, because I would rather market it than any rating scheme.

On a "on topic" note, I think it's great that they lowered the price. While 800.00 may seem like a lot of money, it's nothing in comparison to the rest of the expenses to get a game out there.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 17:14
Anyway... You CAN'T sell a game in the US without one... But if you sell a game online you can use this: http://www.tigrs.org/ It is a self rating system... But my company will stick with ESRB, because we have to... also GameTap... If you've heard of it, now offers a place for indie game developers: https://account.gametap.com/storefront/indies/indies.jsp So there are many new ways of getting a game sold now


Wraith Games... Play Harder
incense
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 18:39 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 18:40
Quote: "Some one said that the ESRB is where it is because people perceive it to be so. Well yeah, isn't that the objective?"


Yes it is the objective. Every one shold know that already. I was simply stating the obvious to draw the realtionship between of the company to the public through exposure. There is no one that can tell me that I can't get the needed exposure and prove that to be a fact.

Quote: "Is it on the same level of perception as the ESRB?"


Of course not, the site just went up a couple of days ago. I know it will take time. Only a fool would expect emediate success for something like this.

Quote: "Will retailers and publishers treat it with the same trust and assurance?"


Retailers are in the same boat as the general public when it comes to thinking that they don't have a choice. Some one would have to prove that my idea is not going to work ever to make me quit. I will just come and tell everyone that they don't have the tools to do that. The only thing that will tell that is time.

The biggest reason that this sort of thing fails is because of Non-participation. No one will use a site untill someone else does. The only way anything like this is going to do anyone any good is if people start posting in the forums and commenting on things they find there.

It is a matter of educating the target market. I have a plan for that also.

Quote: "If you tell someone something enough times, it becomes a fact."


That does not apply to everything. If someone said that Inde game developers worked the way they do because they are idoits pretending to be big boys, I would never beleive that. There are to many smart people out that do what we do. Just because the majority beleives something it doesn't mean that opinion can't be changed. Black slavery is a good case in point. That changed because people didn't quit.


Quote: "On a "on topic" note, I think it's great that they lowered the price. While 800.00 may seem like a lot of money, it's nothing in comparison to the rest of the expenses to get a game out there."


They could go allot lower and not hurt for it. It's a business and nothing more. They do it to make money and nothing more.


Quote: "Anyway... You CAN'T sell a game in the US without one"


There are chain stores that are not ESRB partners and would sell games with the ratings from other companies on them Im sure because they are impartial. Check the ESRB site and it has a list of them. It's not against the law to sell a game without a rating in the USA. Period.

Quote: "Why dont we start and rating site for FPSC games?"


I have started one. That is what I have been talking about this whole time.

See the banner below.

FPSC:



Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
xplosys
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 18:49 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 18:59
incense,

I get the feeling that you may have taken my comments to be personal or directed at you or what you are trying to accomplish. I hope that's not the case, as they were general comments, and meant to explain the road ahead, from my experience, in getting any project off the ground.

It's my belief that to compete with any entrenched and established service, it takes time, money and people in the right places. Anything is possible and, in time, can be overcome. Money and the right people just make it happen a lot sooner. Your attitude and will to succeed will keep this moving forward, no doubt.

Best of luck with your project, and if I can help, just let me know. When your site is full steam, I'd be happy to advertise in some way.

Best.

EDIT: To illistrate a point I made earlier, I call your attention to your banner. It says, "The home of Credibility". Is it? I'm sure you believe it is, but who sanctioned it so? It doesn't matter, because after so many people see it and read so many times, it will be so. The question is, how long will that take? Normally, that depends on how much money you pump into advertising and networking.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Ice Cube
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 19:19
Quote: ""That`s right, but stores won`t put up games into the shelves without rating."

Unfortunately, true...
Rating games...what a nice job, isn't it...play games and get paid for that...

Goodman84
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 02:10
I aggre with incense The prices are insain and not even proper. Just a horrible money grabbing company!

hey
The Invincible
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 02:47
It could be possible to sue I mean this IS a monopoly so we could make an indie system and make it popular

Shop smart shop S-Mart
Goodman84
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:13
Sue Who? For what? I don't think so!

hey
incense
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:19 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 03:21
Thanks Xplosys. I might have taken it a little more personal than I should have. You always seem to be the voice of reason most of the time. I oppologize for seeming agressive. I just feel very strongly about this.

Quote: "Best of luck with your project, and if I can help, just let me know. When your site is full steam, I'd be happy to advertise in some way."


the only way to get the site up to full steam is to advertise. So if all the people wait for the site to get popular before they join or submit anything then the site will not get popular because everyone is waiting for it to be popular before they join or submit anything.....

See the really really non-productive circle here? I do.

Inde game devolpers have been asking for a service that can do what I am offering. Now it seems that people want to keep asking for whats already been created for them even though it is right in front of them. I'm really confused at that.

It won't hurt anything to join the site. It is free. You don't need a game that is ready to be rated to use the forums or anything. If you join now you will already be an established and trusted member. That's like a foot in the door. When your ready to submit a game it will be that much simpler to submit it because you will know the policies and so forth.

It won't cost you anything to just show your support.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Robert F
User Banned
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:28
what a bunch of bull crap, 4 grand for a stupid rating, well i know if i ever realese a game i will never go through them...i will find away around, maybe start my own rating system so my game can pass right through for free or something

DarkFact
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:31
Quote: "Best of luck with your project, and if I can help, just let me know. When your site is full steam, I'd be happy to advertise in some way."


Ditto, my friend.

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 08:14
@ incense- perhaps,(just suggesting) you can do some research on the different systems and see if it is a government sanctioned type thing, or something that anybody can do and share the info with us,or on your site even. That I am sure will lend a vast amount of credibilaty to you as well as show people you are willing to go the extra mile to prove how they would be benifiting from such a site, as your price is quite reasonable.


incense
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 16:01 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 16:02
The ESRB or any other game rating service has no special sanction to rate games. As I said before, they are a stand alone company that people assume has the power to be the only people that can do what they do. I have searched high and low ad can't find anything that says that they have a special license or funding from the federal government to do what they do. In fact there doesn't seem to be any legal or financial relationship between them and the US Federal Government at all. The only thing that is on there site that outlines them and the feds teaming up are news articles about making people aware. I can't put something on my site that cannot be found because it doesn’t exist. The ESRB and other ratings companies have the right that is guaranteed in the Constitution of The United States Of America to start and run such a company. That's the only sanction anyone needs to rate games.

I feel it is important to say again that government approval or licensing is not needed to rate games.

Also I do remember saying that I am not out to replace the ESRB. I just want to offer an alternative. Just an alternative that's all. The ESRB can stay around for a thousand years or die tomorrow and I wouldn't care either way. Im not out to replace them or see them go under. People should have a choice and that is all I am trying to do is offer a choice.

The trick is going to be getting the choice that is being offered to be as recognized as the current Private Company that is already rating games. I don't need anyone to tell me the obstacles. I know the score. I know difficulties involved. The biggest issue is that people think that things are not going to change just because. That's the most ridiculous reason in the world. It's a proven fact that things can and do change if people push hard enough and in the right way. Look all through World history. So many things have changed the over just because people tried something new.

If you take a defeatist attitude you lose. Cut and dry.

If you go and join the site you don't have to pay anything to anyone and it is not a contract for anything. The ESRB or anyone else is not going come busting into your home arrest you for it.

You can pay between $800.00 and $4,000.00 or you can join a cause that is trying to change that.

If you have productive input I'm ready to listen. You can spit out excuses why this won't work forever. I'm not listening to them anymore.

In order for anything to work people have to get behind it. Why not get behind this? Just because? I’m not listening to that either.

Some people never do anything because they feel like it won't change anything. Actually it is the fact that nothing changes because they never do anything.

The choice is simple. Other larger bodies are telling you to shut up, sit down and pay up. Another body that believes certain freedoms is saying stand, be heard and be counted.

People would argue that but that's the way that I see it and I'm not backing down on it and that it is that.

Do what the big bullies tell you or try to make a change.

I for one am makng an effort to right a few wrongs by making sure that there is more than one choice.

Are you going to join me or are you going to take what your being given quietly?




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
the_winch
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 22:51
Quote: "Some one said that the ESRB is where it is because people perceive it to be so."


Read this wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board
It explains why the ESRB came into existence.

There is a lot of nonsense and misinformation in this thread.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
TGPEG
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 22:56
Quote: "If you have productive input I'm ready to listen. You can spit out excuses why this won't work forever. I'm not listening to them anymore.

In order for anything to work people have to get behind it. Why not get behind this? Just because? I’m not listening to that either.

Some people never do anything because they feel like it won't change anything. Actually it is the fact that nothing changes because they never do anything.
"


I know how you feel right now.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:47
Quote: "Problem is, the buyers think ESRB is better

i dont even think you can sell a game on the US market without ESRB rating

Also, what makes you better? What makes you egligable to rate games?"


You do NOT need a rating for your games at all. My games are in stores all of the world and they do not have a rating at all on them and yet they do sell.

Quote: "Read this wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board
It explains why the ESRB came into existence.

There is a lot of nonsense and misinformation in this thread."


Excactly......

I really don't see the point of paying someone else for rating my games. No offense meant, but I can for example have my neighbours rate my games for free and it would just be as valid is getting ESRB's or IGRC's rating or anyone else's.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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incense
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 04:41
Quote: "Read this wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board
It explains why the ESRB came into existence.

There is a lot of nonsense and misinformation in this thread."



Can you tell us exactly what is "nonsense" and what is "misinformation"? I get all my information from the ESRB site. The info in the wiki is not the same as on the ESRB web site.

Quote: "I really don't see the point of paying someone else for rating my games. No offense meant, but I can for example have my neighbours rate my games for free and it would just be as valid is getting ESRB's or IGRC's rating or anyone else's."


You are right. That is very close to what I have said. It's just that ratings are starting to carry allot of weight in the USA. Some retailors will not sell games without a rating. There is a list of them on the ESRB web site. The ESRB is gaining influence and might get some crazy things to happen that might cause pain to the inde community in th future. To them it's all business and money. If there is no alternate choice by the time that might happen then it could possibly be to late to do anything without an act of congress. So I started the IGRC. It is fare and affordable. No harm in getting behind a cause that is good for something. Even if it is

Benjamin A, I would be very interested in seeing some of your titles. Would it possible for you to post a list or at least some of then here so I can read the reviews on them?


FPSC:



Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 10:57 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 10:58
Quote: "Benjamin A, I would be very interested in seeing some of your titles. Would it possible for you to post a list or at least some of then here so I can read the reviews on them?"


No online reviews yet, I leave that up to the publisher..... but you can read all about them here:

My FPSC game is published by Manifesto, but only online.http://www.manifestogames.com/node/2424

All of my 2D games can be found here as a bundle (just scroll down until you see them) http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/the_ultimate_games_bundle_product_33141 These games are published (as boxed versions) for example by Xing (in Europe), Grabit (in the UK) and some others around the world.

Here are some links to the game on CNet or as announcements.
http://www.download.com/The-Commander-Josh-Chronicles-Book-1-The-Mars-Adventure/3000-7453_4-10534290.html
http://www.download.com/DragonMania/3000-7435_4-10552818.html?tag=lst-0-1 And a little bit of info here http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/cavemansurvival/index.html & http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/dragon-x-gold-quest/

Just for fun, the screenshot attached it from my latest game. It's a strategy game, much further then I've ever gone before, a real challenge.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.

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Dan the man
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Location: In jail.
Posted: 30th Sep 2007 05:18
U guys r like rebules!!
incense
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 16:20 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 03:44
Benjamin A, That's awsome. What engines did you use for the command and conqure style of games? I have always been facinated with them. I loved to play war craft and I still play Dune2000.

What markets do you sell to and how do you move your games? If you don't mind me asking.

That would really help the community out allot.

Dan the man, Indeed I am a rebel. I am not normally that way but I feel pretty strongly about this. People have been abused financially. To me that is as bad as smacking someone in the face. It's time to hit back.

But I can't do it alone. I need the support of the people that have been kept down. Even though the impact has not been fully felt yet I'm sure that it will be if the current course of things continues.

People don't have to have games that they need rated to join the IGRC. It is mainly a cry for the right to use an alternative.

Its not about the money. If it were about the money that could be made I would be charging allot more. The site will need a domain before to long and then the people that rate the games will eventually want some sort of compensation. The $5.00 fee is to be set aside for the cost of getting the IGRC into the game the right way. I might have to even ask more later but I hope not though. If I get vols that can do it because it is something that they think should be done that is great to. Many thanks to xplosys for offering to be the first rater.

We just need an alternative choice so that people with little money and big ideas can afford to ride the comming wave.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Goodman84
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 19:08
heck even if it was about the money 5 bukes is a good deal!

hey
Benjamin A
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 23:14 Edited at: 30th Sep 2007 23:17
Quote: "Benjamin A, That's awsome. What engines did you use for the command and conqure style of games? I have always been facinated with them. I loved to play war craft and I still play Dune2000.

What markets do you sell to and how do you move your games? If you don't mind me asking.

That would really help the community out allot."


Somewhere in the fpsc chat I made a huge post with tips and other information and it all ended up in the FPSC Hint's & Tips PDF Guide in the tutorial section as HOW TO GET YOUR GAME PUBLISHED.

As for the engine, all I can say it's not created by TGC. I've been using the engine for a number of years now. You can create all kinds of 2D games with it. I'm the only one who actually succesfully finished a strategy game with it, many have tried, but failed. this new game is based on the Caveman's World Engine, but goes a lot further.

As for markets, it will do you no good. 3D games and 2D games are using different market segments. I've tried to get the publishers I normally deal with interested in some of my FPSC games, but they weren't interested at all. No money in it, they said, the first person market is saturated and way too much competition. You need something stunning to stay above the crowd and FPSC doesn't offer anything stunning.

They adviced me to drop the creation of fps games and stick with 3rd person views (which FPSC can't accomplish). I've listened to their advice and don't regret it. If FPSC will add 3rd person view it will sure gain my attention again, but until then it will look nice in my collection of engines.

Personally I think one could market a FPSC made game (as I've done with Commander Josh), but it's going to take a lot of energy, time and effort to do so. I've found that my other games are very easy to market with a little effort, so it's a choice I've made to not market anymore fpsc games.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
incense
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 01:52 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 03:44
I use other engines and I even have one that does 1st, 2nd and 3rd person.

I think that information could still be useful.

If you don't want to tell then I won't push.

Thanks for the tips that you did give.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
incense
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 13:01 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 02:28
I really hope that the fee that I ask for is enough to get a domain and cover the cost of printed materials and so on. What the IGRC really needs is people that are willing to get in touch with their local schools and child care proffesionals and get them to endorse the IGRC as a viable rating alternative. In this way the IGRC can gain some respect from the proffesional community. The general populace will follow their lead. It is in this way that we can gain ground and get noticed.

There are alot of good educational games out there that will never make it to market because the developers cannot pay a huge fee to have them rated. That is a huge loss to the children that would benefit from such games and it puts a limit on their learning capability. No one should have their ability to learn stunted by money hungry companies.

There is a market in educational games and they don't have to cost much to make money. A lot of them die before they reach the market because of greed. This is just another good reason for a company like the IGRC to step in. Inde game developers can stand to gain a lot from it, but they aren't the only ones. If we get the education system involved then it is almost certain that we will get the notice and respect of many others.

EDIT:
I to got a response from the ESRB when I asked about the formula that they use to rate games.






Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Trebor
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 23:11
incense- I think it is a good idea and I'll be happy to help you out where and when ever possible. One thing to really help the credibility will be perfect syntax and spelling.

General game overview\reviews would be helpful as well as the fast, cut and dry stats. Perhaps you could start a free monthly eletter- maybe tied to the site's news, with at least a list of all known games out that month and pick several from "big name" companys to review. (Ask the companys and they may kick you some wares to review!). Give folks (consumers) more than one reason to go to and use your site. Give them a little entertainment besides the rating.

On that same note, maybe go ahead and review some older "big company" games for each of your categories and compare your ratings with the established ratings to show consumers that you offer a viable service.

Start keeping hit stats on every page and study them to get a feel for what folks want to see on the site. This will also help as a sales plus when looking to attract\convince advertisers.

Lastly, I disagree with your age 10 "Death of cartoon character with blood" rating parameter. Wiley Coyote was smushed a thousand different times, but we never watched him leak out AKA Itchy and Scratchy or Spy v/s Spy . Should be at least age 13, IMO.

Cheers!

P.S. I'd have put all this on your forum, but it wouldn't accept my Login even though the site did...

No matter where you go, there you are.
incense
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 19:28 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 17:27
Trebor said:
Quote: "General game overviewreviews would be helpful as well as the fast, cut and dry stats. Perhaps you could start a free monthly eletter- maybe tied to the site's news, with at least a list of all known games out that month and pick several from "big name" companys to review. (Ask the companys and they may kick you some wares to review!). Give folks (consumers) more than one reason to go to and use your site. Give them a little entertainment besides the rating.

On that same note, maybe go ahead and review some older "big company" games for each of your categories and compare your ratings with the established ratings to show consumers that you offer a viable service."


Trebor: Alot of the things that you have mentioned to get people to come to the site are already in the works. You and I have many of the same ideas. I am however just one person. I had some people that said that they wanted to help but when I asked them to do certain things they never got back to me.

Quote: "Lastly, I disagree with your age 10 "Death of cartoon character with blood" rating parameter. Wiley Coyote was smushed a thousand different times, but we never watched him leak out AKA Itchy and Scratchy or Spy v/s Spy . Should be at least age 13, IMO."


Your opinion is well received.

Thoes cartoons were actually meant for adults. They were dressed in sheeps clothing so that the children didn't see the adult humor. At least that is the widely accepted theory. I personally don't have an opinion on the matter.

I do agree that "Death of cartoon character" might be better placed in the lower age groups. However I am not comfortable putting "Death of cartoon character with blood" any lower than where it is. It is graphic depiction that is the issue after all. If there is a better home for it in the higher aged bracket then I can bend that way. I think that we should put the rating system to a vote. Lets see what the members can come up with. How's that? I would be happy to make it a community project.
To watch a cartoon die is no big deal. It makse sence though to provide strong distinction between that and the real thing. Blood would take into the horrible violent death realm. For that age backet it is a good idea to stay as far from that as reason allows.

I have set up a place on the IGRC forums for people to post their thoughts: http://igrc.phpbb.instant-forum.com




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Talairina
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 07:37
Unlike American law here in the UK it is illegal to sell a game without a BBFC rating. (This applies to certain themes, violence etc... Check the BBFC website for more information)

"While many countries have voluntary game rating schemes, the UK's certification process is mandated by the Video Recordings Act of 1984, ammended in 1993, which obliges publishers producing visual material that depicts realistic or semi-realistic people to have their material certified by the BBFC. The Act applies to games, videos, DVDs and cinema releases. The certificate - U, PG, 12, 12A, 15 or 18 - defines to which age groups a work may be sold. Selling a certified work to an inappropriate age group is a crime under the Act."

For example you can look at the current Manhunt 2 Ban here in the UK. With the BBFC refushing to award a certificate to the game, the game can not be legally sold in this country.

Oh a quick note, taking directly from the BBFC website:

"Under the Video Recordings Act, most video games are exempt from BBFC classification. However, they may lose this exemption - and therefore require a formal BBFC classification - if they depict, to any significant extent, gross violence against humans or animals, human sexual activity, human urinary or excretory functions or genital organs, or techniques likely to be useful in the commission of offences."


So for any of you considering releasing a title in the UK, think carefully if your game may warrent a BBFC rating and if you believe or even doubt it then get in touch with the BBFC. Saves getting a fine.


Tal
Will da gamr
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 08:18
It would be cool if we had a developers magazine written by the forum people that rate people's game and give a little info. like gameinformer.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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