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3 Dimensional Chat / Top Tips For 3DS Model Problems

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Darclyte
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Jun 2003
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Posted: 14th Jun 2003 19:47 Edited at: 14th Jun 2003 19:48
Hello All,

Just got DBPro, and it's blown me away. I am a modeller more than a programmer (My reason for choosing DB) and came accross some big hurdles at first, which I'm sure others have experienced, I appologise for the length of this post in advance, but I simply have to share!

Before I get started, I'd better tell you what I'm using:

DBPro (upgraded to 4.1 + IDE updates)
3D Studio Max R3
DBConv (Stand alone program distributed with DB Classic)
Xout (3DS Max Plugin available from www.3dcafe.com as "Directx Exporter")

The reason for this post should be familiar to any 3ds user. Namely problems loading 3ds models and actally getting DBPro to render them.Stuff that worked fine on DB just won't display in DBPro. Well I found out how to get around all of that and have some other tips to make your models load faster and look more "organic". So here goes.

1, How to get 3ds models to render in DBpro:
"One Rule to Display them all, One rule to find them,..."

You MUST ensure EVERY limb of your 3ds model has a texture applied to it!

Simple eh? The texture doesn't even have to cover the whole limb, just one textured polygon will do, but if there's even one limb without a texture then DBPro won't display anything. Nada, Niente.

This does have a downside when it comes to amimation, as you can no longer use untexturable (is that a word?) items in your models, such as helpers and bones and suchlike, but using simple IK is still possible, so you have no excuses!

2, 3DS models take an 10 times longer to load than X models?

Looks like DBPro converts them upon loading, and once you get any decent amount of models into your program, you'll find you're staring a a blank screen for a Loooooong time before the program actually runs, So:

Download the free trial of the origional Dark Basic (Classic). Were not actually intrested in the compiler here, but a little proggy stashed away in the "Tools" directory called DBconv. All it does is convert any 3DS models in it's directory into x models, complete with animation keyframes. (don't forget to keep your textures with your 3ds file or they'll get lost during conversion).

Et Voila: Your Newly created X models will load superquick and look exactly the same.

3, My models still look a bit, weeeelll,..... Chunky!

I couldn't help noticing that lighting my models shows off every facet on them. This doesn't matter if it's a mechanical object, they're supposed to have corners, but spheres and the like look appalling unless you crank the poly count up to processor choking numbers. The solution is in the Normals:

First go to 3dcafe and download the Xout exporter plugin (Free Stuff->Programs & Patches->Direct X Exporter v0.5beta). Install it into 3ds Max R3 and we're away.

This plugin has a big upside and a big downside. The downside is that it doesn't export animation data, but there are other ways around that. The upside is that it gives you the option to export "Vertex Normals" instead of 3DS's "Face Normals". When displayed in DBPro, this has the effect of smoothing your models edges, giving you a curvey looking object.

If you need to animate your curvey models (remember no keyframes) a bit of creative programming with the HIDE LIMB and GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB commands will open up lots of possibilities (Changing clothes on models, fake mesh deformation ,... Gotcha thinkin' yet? ).

Hope that's of some use to someone, cos It took a lot of effort to suss out. Now I'm off to actually do something with it.

Bye,
Darclyte


Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 14th Jun 2003 20:02
firstly.. try http://www.maxplugins.de for all your free plugin needs, i've not found a single plugin that doesn't work well on there and there is a good selection of DirectX ones.

Secondly most DirectX Exporters for Max (and i'm not sure why) don't export the texture ... the DBConv doesn't save the texture name data within the XOF either.
3DS will export its Smooth Groups based on UVMaps... so if you UVMap each polygon seperately then you will basically have Facet Shading on it - try to keep your texture groups as large as possible and within the Smooht groups you want to use. However only the more extreme cases of Shading will be noticeable once textured (under Tan(25°) )

Depending on which DB your catering for DB or DBP will depend on how you animate your models, a fully rigged IKSolution is best for DBP whereas a simple Bone Rig & Envelope to single mesh is best for DB.
Most plugins don't ask you which you'd prefer to export either (which can be annoying) so if you need to export Heirachy, export to 3DS and for Skin&Bone then DirectX 8.1+ exporter (they also export ALOT of things which you can use for Shaders and such too which is far far more useful)

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Darclyte
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Jun 2003
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Posted: 14th Jun 2003 23:45
Thanks for the tips Raven, I'm Plug-in Hunting Right now.

I must warn you I'm a real newbie and can't wait to get going so I'm trying to crowbar my models in any way I can. The above may be round the houses, but it does work.

Cheers

DL

Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 00:02
Quote: "The above may be round the houses, but it does work."

hehee my guess is your a brit mate
any questions you have about Max and DBP then feel free to ask me, i generally know somewhat to achieve something.
Or even if its like just tips about what tools you can use to achieve something in Max, (^_^) i've picked up alot of tricks from other modelers that work wonders in Max.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Darclyte
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Jun 2003
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 00:09
Yeah you shopped me, I'm a brit.

Thanks for the offer of help, I'll track you down when I hit the next brick wall. (Which will be soon no doubt!)



Brent_Seraphim
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 1st Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 01:09
I could have told you he was a brit. It says 'Location: United Kingdom'...Still lots of great tips. Keep em coming!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
comic book guy
21
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Joined: 21st Apr 2003
Location:
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 01:37
hi
for the Chunky model part, i had the same problem but when i played around with the setobject command (Cull and Filter) the model becomes smooth.

i,m a newbie too so i'm not sure this is the best way to do this.

sorry if there are any spelling mistakes, this is not my native language
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 03:32
Quote: "I could have told you he was a brit. It says 'Location: United Kingdom'"


not when he first posted... you start getting knarky as well then perhaps you should take a leave for a while.

and yeah ComicBookGuy, DB Standard/Enhanced actually had a command called "Set Normalisation On" and it'd fixx the shading on models, for some reason DBP doesn't have it though (very peculiar)

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
comic book guy
21
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Joined: 21st Apr 2003
Location:
Posted: 15th Jun 2003 04:38
Sorry had the wrong part of the command.
i use dbpro then in the set object command i set the light flag to 0.
then the object becomes smooth.


now i'm affraid that this will give me trouble later on, maybe it will make the object ignor other lights?

if you want here is a small demo of what i mean its 1.4MB

http://members1.chello.nl/~p.nutbey/sphere.zip

thanks

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