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3 Dimensional Chat / Tornado Screenshots

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 02:26 Edited at: 15th Jun 2003 02:27
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This is a model that I decided to do as practice with using wings 3D, which I started using yesterday, it's a Tornado aeroplane. I did it in about 5 hours , I'm very tired now. Before I go and attempt to texture it, I want to show you some screens, constructive crit will be appreciated and I hope the images don't take too long to load, they are JPG format.

596 Triangles
304 Vertices









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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 02:45
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wow thats actually pretty good
might wanna loot at the nose a little, shape is a tad off - otherwise a pretty good job

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 03:20
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Thanks Raven. I will look at the nose, it does look kind of fat .

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MikeS
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 04:25
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Great job, it looks very realistic.I can tell it has taken 5 hours.
I'm interested in seeing the texture.



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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 04:32
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Lol! I have a feeling the texture will be somewhat less realistic . And now I'm off to bed, its 1:30 am here in the UK

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 06:55
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That's Snazzy! Keep us posted!

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 17:45 Edited at: 15th Jun 2003 19:57
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Here are some updated screenshots, I added a few things, like fin things on the tail, and a lump, I think its a mid air refueling thing. Also I looked at the nose, made it narrower and curved on the bottom, and I added more detail to the engines.

878 triangles now, I guess I did add quite a lot of detail.





[EDIT] for some reason the last image only half loads for me, weird [EDIT]

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Soyuz
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 20:15
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Hard to tell from the shots but it looks like you could merge some faces without there being any loss of shape, in particular on the rear of the fuselage/engines where the cross-section is fairly rectangular.

Great model though, you know it could fit well in a game with an Apache helicopter I made recently...

http://www.kev.bolt.btinternet.co.uk/3dportfolio/models/apache_copter01.jpg

Sorry bad to pimp in someone else's thread so I include this just as a link and not an image.
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Mattman
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 20:36 Edited at: 15th Jun 2003 20:37
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nice, but on the second screenshot, the smooth one, it looked bad :o maybe it'll look better with textures?

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 21:55 Edited at: 15th Jun 2003 21:56
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Sorry, I dont know which faces you mean, I have tried merging some of them, but when the model is triangulated, the faces divide again. Could you explain which ones?

Yeah, it will look better with textures, and it also looks better with an openGL render.

Thanks both! Oh and nice helicopter, much better texture that mine will be.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 23:24
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the second screenie only half loads for me too ... and i really wanted to see the nose update

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 23:52
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Wow, very nicely put together mesh - pretty good polycount too.

Good thing is there's tons of reference pictures and photographs online to help texture it.


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 00:55
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Thanks all, good idea Van, I will check out the internet for resources.

Here is another shot of the nose Raven, I elongated it, and the rest of the fromt as it was out of proportion, I also re-shaped it a bit.



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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 06:00
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yeah thats much better.. you might wanna take that second row of vertex and move it evenly between the first and end, the scale just to round it (should still be a little less than the first else it'll look bloated again)

can't wait to see it textured now

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 11:16
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I dunno, in the actual thing, the nose does bend inwards a bit as it comes away from the tip, but yeah, the bend is not in the right place I can see now, and the remander on the nose isn't straight. I will adjust and post when I have textured, but don't expect too much (although you never know).

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arras
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 11:59
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Wery good. Shape is preaty realistic, looks like real one , nice work.

I also think that few triangles can be removed like Soyuz sad. Especialy behind cabbin and on motor tubes. There is too much segments there...at last seems to me from screenshos. You can make polycount lower without loosing detail.
That nose is OK on last one. I dont think that it need to be more detailed, but that depend on for what you need it. If for some simulation, then its enought detailed.

And for texturing, try to get some real pictures or schemes of real planes, that can help you to texture it wery realisticly.
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 18:33 Edited at: 16th Jun 2003 19:31
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Thanks arras, I will try to get rid of some triangles where you have said, and look for some more. I am not planning to use it for anything, I will probably post the file up once it's textured so that other people may use it. I'm gonna finish tweeking and start texturing after I've done some revision (damned GCSEs). Thanks all for the help.

[EDIT] I don't want to make yet another post, so I'll say here - I have the poly count down to 802 triangles by merging the tail, nose and body faces. [EDIT]

[EDIT] 790 now, it somehow looks better when there are less fiddly, detailed bits, looks more clean and smooth when rendered [EDIT]

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 22:55
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OK, looks like texturing is on hold until I get this fixed.

On wings 3d, when I export the object and import again, some faces appear blue and I don't know what this means. It's mostly on the thin parts of the object, like the tail and wings. Also some vertices appear blue when I rotate the camera around to a certain place. The problem is that when I texture, a bit of the texture also shows on the other side of the tail when it isn't supposed to. Any help? Thanks

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 23:06
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Plus when I import it again, the number of triangles has increased to 2966 ! Maybe the blue faces (it says they are holes, though I still don't know how to fix them) contribute to this rise?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 23:32
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dunno not used wings enough

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 10:51
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It only appears to happen when I export as a different format. Also I have noticed that when you export and import, the model appears to make a double of itself where the "normals have flipped" (phhh, I'm learning), I think, so that it can also be seen from the inside of the model, also doubleing the amount of poligons (although the poly count halved is still 1400, more that the original). Maybe that has something to do with it.

Actarus? I know you said you were busy, but I think you are probably one of the most experienced around here with Wings, so, any idea?

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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 13:25
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I was not using Wings3d neighter but blue triangles can be that normals are facing oposite side and needs to be switched.
If you edit or create individual faces you have to always keep order of placing wertices...should be counterclockwise otherwise face normal will be directed away from you.

If polycount is increased bye importing can means that on import all the faces are converted in to double sided.

Somebody who know wings3d should tell you hove to prevent it may be, or you can try e-mail to author.
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actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 15:53 Edited at: 17th Jun 2003 17:31
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-If you edit or create individual faces you have to always keep order of placing wertices

You see that's why Wings3D rocks,it doesn't create wrong meshes ever,it's technology just doesnt allow it so no prevention is required unlike most modelers which will let you create doubled edges and that's very bad for game design needs


The Doubling of the polygons isn't related to it being converted to double-sided but rather because they were boxes/quads and the exporting via certain format triangulates them.(1 quad= 2 tris)...

I usually use the .ndo export when I assemble different scenes/meshes because it leaves the mesh untriangulated and plus I don't like using 'merge' since I've seen it to be very buggy in most softwares regarding vertex order and transform matrice.


The blue faces are definetely holes...It just needs a few edges deleted/dissolved and maybe some point connects...If you can't get it done,send me the mesh and I'll make a little set of images showing the steps I made to correct it so next time you know what to do.




Sidenote:In Softimage Xsi,when using the 'create polygon' tool and starting a face from the 'wrong side',all you need to do is spin the cursor over the right vertex,without canceling the operation and the normals will change orientation...You can see it from the little arrows surrounding the tool's 'creation guides',very useful and fast,plus you don't have to start over(hence 3dmax's editpoly)...If you still pursue the 'wrong way,Soft. pops a dialogue box to warn you of this irregularity

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:24 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 23:33
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Thanks Actarus, that helped a lot. I have found the problem, even though the holes don't show up as blue in .wings format they are still there. The faces that make up the side of the tail are on the wrong side of the tail,if you get what I mean, so the left side is on the right of the right side. I moved the vertices to fix that, but do you know how to join 3 vertices to make a face because the tail is only on face thick in places, and I want it to be slightly 3D, or can you not do that?

Also, the doubling in polys didn't have anything to do with triangulating, I'd already done that to see how many triangles I had got rid of, since DB uses .3DS or .X format, which needs triangulation. I could merge them together again, but it would take a while.


EDIT - I have fixed the holes actarus, I just don't want to bring the thread to the top to say that, thanks!

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actarus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:43 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 01:45
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-the tail is only on face thick in places, and I want it to be slightly 3D, or can you not do that?


For that try selecting the end edeges and use Bevel.

I used to always triangulate my objects when I first started to use wings,the fastest way is,in vertex mode,select all(Ctrl-A)and connect(C).

I do use triangles to stop the detail from spreading in some area when I make a character but if I have to use either smooth proxy/preview I keep it quaded,you'll see it's even good for making fighters,cars ect...

BTW:Most of the work is done with connect in wings,a bit like the knife tool in LW

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