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3 Dimensional Chat / REALLY low poly human model

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arras
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 07:06
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Finaly I had some free time to model. I was making this human model in order to try and experiment with mesh deformation.
Also I saw that lott of people here make models up to 2000 polys. This model shows that it can be done under 1000...
I was texturing it too but result was worth less time I spent on it, means its not looking wery good.
Feel free to post your coments...

[img] http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictures/arrashuman1.jpg[/img]

[img] http://members.lycos.co.uk/arras1/Pictures/arrashuman2.jpg[/img]
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arras
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 07:07
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may be once more?...



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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 07:52
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Wonderful! I can tell you have an artists eye . Brillant. Very good command of form! And yeah...it can be done under 1000 easy..but I just had to be sure . Keep us posted ...this thing rocks. Theres not that much I can say other then that.


Rock on!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 11:09 Edited at: 17th Feb 2004 16:06
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Bah

Do you bite your thumb at me sir?
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Soyuz
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 12:19
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Hey dude that's a great low-poly human. It's certainly a tricky art to get a realistic human form under 1000 polys.

I'd be interested to see a shot of him leaning over - say as though he's bending to pick something up. ie what I'm suggesting is can your model creat a nice arched/bent back if you bone it with several spine bones?

You gonna do a woman to accompany him?
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arras
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 13:00
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Thank you all
...Brent Seraphim that was real compliment, I am happy that you like it

here are some picking shots:



His right shoulder is not deformed wery good but I can't do it better, may be I will look at it still later.

Here is also textured model, I know that texture is far from perfec, but I was nearly not unwraping model. I just want to shove you that it looks smoth even with low polycount.

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Soyuz
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 14:34
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Awesome, maybe with that shoulder you could flip the polygon faces - so the triangles in the polygon are effectivly rotated by 90 degrees. That make sense? Hard to tell from these shots but sometimes I find this works better in some locations when it comes to animating your character.
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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 17:02
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Looks great.

The real polygon eating part for me,and probably a few,is that I always model full hands.

As you may know,to get a good animation deformation for them you will need over 150 polygons for each and I tend to add more faces than that for the look,especially the in-hand since I think it plays/adds a good visual part in games along with the weapons.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 17:13 Edited at: 16th Jun 2003 17:14
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Hey come to think of it,I posted a thread last year on RGT with many models under 1000 polygons too...With fully animatable fingers.

Check them out(Although I must admit,I have improved since then)


http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=10524;start=0

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 18:27
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Yeah, cool, sorry I didn't have anything more to say, I had to go to school. Nice model, looks very good textured, you can't tell how low poly it is. Good models actarus too, although the army guy looks a bit out of proportion, the legs should be longer.

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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 18:45
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Hammish,your jet is quite good too,may have a few tips to give but I'm modeling now so maybe later.

Thanks for the tip but I can't modify these models anymore,I delete them.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 19:32
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Quote: "Wonderful! I can tell you have an artists eye"


Arras certainly does have alot of raw skills
part for me which always add alot of unwanted polygons is the head, i've spent like 400 on a head before without realising it ... its oki normally because you do need more detail.

Personally i think you need to sort out the Smooth Groups properly, export the UV Map - then MeshSmooth, Vertex Assign, Delete MeshSmooth - your character will look as if it has 2,000 polygons.

i would recommend you have the front of the legs & following where the muscle goes on the arms, start along the centre of the hand (on the wrist between the centre knuckles) then curve it following the faces around 90° to the Elbow (the thumb side) then cut around another 90° in the same direction, so you kinda end up with a large S cut from the top to bottom on the arm.
you can actually add alot of muscle detail & have it push inside the actual arm a little...
The leg ones will round them off, and you'll find you're still just under 1,000 polygons

i can also should you howto create fully indexed hands that only cost about 60polygons each and look pretty good.
Most models you can use nowadays for character can be easily around 1,200-1,300 without mugh worry - and use an LOD system for those you don't see.
you may also want to push slightly back down the elbow...

not to bring this up or anything - but does anyone else think that guy would be frustrated for having a small wang?

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Soyuz
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 03:26
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not to bring this up or anything - but does anyone else think that guy would be frustrated for having a small wang?

Lol well I was wondering about mentioning that but thought it may be like a self-portrait thing by the artist so decided against it
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 12:54
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wang???...I was searching in dictionary but there is no trace for such a word. Excuse me I am not native english speaker...what exactly wang means?

I am not planing to make woman model now and this one I made in order to have some reference model for other models with clothes.

I am quit satisfied with hand he already have but sure it can be better so if you dont mind to showe here hove you would do it you are welcomed

With having more polygons at head is OK in my opinion for that its part which is giving personality to model and its most important for giving impresion of character. Of course it can be few polys higher or lower and for sure you can improve it always...

Quote: "Personally i think you need to sort out the Smooth Groups properly, export the UV Map - then MeshSmooth, Vertex Assign, Delete MeshSmooth - your character will look as if it has 2,000 polygons.
"


-well I was using milkshape for modeling and up to my knoweledge its not giving such a options...

In general I was not modeling individual muscles, just fiving form to body parts, more detail should be made with texture. But there is of course some space to improve arms and legs bye considering muscle structure more and change position of few wertices...
...I dont know if I will do it however, because this model will be used to model figures with clothes, making such a work useless...

The elbow is more or less at the place where it should be, I was using real phothos like reference, when I was modeling.

Of course body have no perfect form and what ideal body is is more case of moda then anatomy. That means that your model dont have to be neceserily perfect...its not perfect in real life neighter. In my eyes realy good modeler is one which is not doing unperfect model bye accident but bye modeling it unperfect knowingly. That can give his model personality...if you understant what I mean...
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actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 14:59 Edited at: 17th Jun 2003 15:00
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Um well as far as muscles are concerned I'm a big fan of making creases for them...After all it's about what,24 polygons each max so it's worth it.

Realtime shading is way better than simulated shadows IMO

Gotta disagree with the model head thing though...My personal experience in gaming taught me you almost never see a 'main' character's face so basically that's one area where you will want the mapping to do the job and put the rest of those polygons in the back and on the hair.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 15:41
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Main character of course not if its 1th person wiew, but for this case you dont have to model character at all, you sometimes need only few parts of body like hands...

Also in shooter type game, when I think of it, face is not so much imortant thats right.
On the other hand in RPG you would look at face of other characters ofthen...so depend what you want to make.

What I was may be overmodeling are ears.
I also think about changing his neck in front, should not be so flat...
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 15:54
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Hey Soyuz, I was fliping polygon faces like you recomended and its working well now with that shoulder...thanks a lot
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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 15:57
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Very good I must say, all the proportions look pretty good and the texturing is pretty decent too.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 19:08
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Oh well suppose Milkshape doesn't have it... last time i talked to you, you were using Max4 - though i should've known better with the offperspective shots.

However if you still have Max import into it and setup the Vertex likst i suggest, it adds alot of depth a skin.
as for what a wang is... lol i'm sure you'll hear that word again

one actual point i would like to make though and thats tha head. I dunno what it is but to me when people show perfectly round heads they don't look right to me, http://www.finearts.sk but its not something you can easily explain so just checked the heads there for a while and you might understand what i mean

pulling the second row of vertex from the top to be slightly wide should solve the issue.
And tell him' to put some damn pants on

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 20:33
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) ) Trust me or not, I know what you speak about when you speak about perfectly round heads... I dont have to check that page, I was useing their picture for the reference
His head is not perfectly round, but can be that it was one of those more rounded:



I was newer uing Max4 and I newer sad so, that must be misunderstanding. I sad that I am using Microstation.
But this model was all build, boned and textured (tha texture I am not proud about at all)

as for his pants...dona know, might be he was loosing them somewhere...or might be that I forget to make him one?...dont remember anymore... )
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 20:37
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ops...

...But this model was all build, boned and textured (tha texture I am not proud about at all) in Milkshape.

like this it should have been
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:20
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hmm guess it was a misunderstanding, nm no biggie



well anways that was more what i ment ... not many people i know have perfect round head that way and the skuls bone concaves, if you edit slightly the edges i've shown you'll see what i mean - can add alot of realism.
and if you like i can bake the vertex for you like i did with the pinnicle Should add some good realism

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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arras
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:45
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Ok that make sense...you right

is it better?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 03:40
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yup ... cool how such small changes make a big difference eh? hehe

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 03:58
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I want to know whether you guys are working on projects with people or whether you just kick around doing this stuff for fun? I only ask because modelling well is the main thing I cannot do. I can make all sorts of media, and I can even animate models very realistically, but I just cant make the blighters. Its frustrating to see you guys knock together models for the hell of it when they're pretty much the only missing link in my otherwise completable games. :-s

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MikeS
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 05:23
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lol, fallout, you teach me how to animate good, and I'll teach you how to model.(although I consider myself a beginner at modeilng)



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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 06:03
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To animate well, you need the privacy of a quiet room, a collection of movies featuring the moves you want to animate, and the willingness to try to replicate them yourself. i.e. You end up jumping madly around your room and walking like a lepper, but if you study yourself and the movies closely, you can make it look very convincing.

I'm by no means a pro animator though. Remember, I only get to animate my own shite models, so even if the motion may look fluid and realistic, the limbs looking like greasy turds arent exactly going to be the ultimate test. hehe.

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arras
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 11:55
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Fallout>>>
what I am displayng here and what I do in dark basic I do for fun untill now and I am not working with any other people. But I showe it from time to time here on the forum and let people give me some feedback which in return is helping me to make it better.

In my profesion on the other hand I do models for money but its diferent kind of modeling and its not my main product. In fact I do it in order to suport my designs and to make my main product more interesting for clients...

Raven>>>
yes, details make often big difference ..thanks
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 16:25
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I'm still jealous.

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actarus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 16:30
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You'll get there.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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arras
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 17:07
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If you are begineer don't start with compex models like human body...its dificult to make.
Start out by modeling something simplier and more geometric, like forniture or building.
If you want to animate it, try to make simple robot model, out of boxes for example.

If you will practise your skill, you can make decent models afther time...

For modeling I would sugest you should try to find or make reference pictures...that helps a lot. I did my model here also out of references...
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actarus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 17:13 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 17:14
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When I started I didn't use viewport reference material.

If I recall my first model was Grendizer(old Japanese super robot)

Robots are a good start for they're rather blocky and will also help you understand smooth-shading groups and how to use it effectively in order to define the shapes.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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SRBrickman
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:33
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I've only just started modelling, and I've started out by doing simple transport like a lorry and a submarine. Btw, nice person! Looks really good for only 910 polygons

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