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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D & 4D?

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sonecgaimr
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 22:02
(Ok, first I want to say that I'm a newbie, so don't shoot me)
What is the difference between 3D and 4D?
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Bert is evil, Ernie is evil, and the Pillsbury Doughboy is evil. I knew it from the start.
Dr BOK
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 22:05 Edited at: 16th Jul 2003 22:09
There was some long ass debate about this. Go back a few pages you'll probably give up reading before you reach the end hehe.

*EDIT* Actually forget that. I know its here somewhere but not in which forum =/. Anyone else know where it is?

Flawless Designs
ClearCoder
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 23:53
2d is where you can travel through 2 dimensions X and Y
3d is where you can travel through 3 dimensions X and Y and Z
as time is often considered the fourth dimension
4d is where you can travel through 4 dimensions X and Y and Z and time.

okay

Newbie Now; Expert Later
Current project:The Sorus
Carlitos
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 02:03
4D is still theoritical, scientists are still debating on the subject. 4D is very complicted and there are whole encyclopedias on the subject, lol, seriously!

--carlitos
Blazer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 06:31
its funny on the blinks game for x box, it says it's the first 4d game. no its not, the first 4d game is the first game were time passes (like zelda ocarinal of time).

As I walk through the vally of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 09:23 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 09:28
If am right, 4D CAN (Logical) have 2d and 3d.
In this case, Zelda can NOT be 4d cause it wasnt possible at that time, to insert 3d.

"The Loungest Journey" IS 4D.
It has all the elements.

ClearCoder is right about the axis.
4D is the time.

In 3d you travel in the x,y and z directions.
But once you travel in time, wich direction do you take?
Once a game has all the elemts of a 3 dimensional world + The Unknown direction (Time), then it is called 4d.

4D is also the last direction, so forget about 5D

Sir_Crowley

Never Ending History

Sir_Crowley
Dave J
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 10:42
Quote: "*EDIT* Actually forget that. I know its here somewhere but not in which forum =/. Anyone else know where it is?
"

I believe it was in the "DarkBASIC Discussion" forum with the title "Is this shape 3D or 4D?" although I could be wrong.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
adr
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 16:52
Exeat - you're right. Then some pedantic twat said "well it's not really 3D since it's on your monitor which is a flat surface blah blah blah..."

"its funny on the blinks game for x box, it says it's the first 4d game. no its not, the first 4d game is the first game were time passes (like zelda ocarinal of time)."

Do you really think the marketing dude who came up with such a tagline understands quantum physics? It's all about marketing your product, like when publishers call a particular product a "Real Time Interactive Strategy Game":
Real Time = The passage of time is conveyed
Interactive = Stuff happens when you do stuff
Strategy = You need to think

Well I never, a game which involves thinking and doing stuff.

Bender:Blackmail’s such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The x makes it sound cool.
Dave J
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 17:00
Exactly, did anyone really think the lame graphics (providing the 4th dimension isn't time) in "4D Boxing" were actually 4D? I certainly didn't.

Quote: ""well it's not really 3D since it's on your monitor which is a flat surface blah blah blah...""

lol, then by his theory we live in a 2D world because our eyes actually can only see two dimensions, the world is projected onto a 2D screen in our mind and it's just our perception that makes it out to be 3D.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Arrow
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 04:06
Techincaly, it's two 2d images superimposed over one-another to create an illution of 3d.

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 05:03
Haha! This is great . Some ones already got 'technical'. I remember thats what got the last dissucion going.

BTW these new faces rock! .

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
Mattman
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 22:07
I'm surprised Raven hasen't posted his theory on the subject!

---Mattman
DID YOU KNOW THAT ???
Energizer
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 22:11
It is very hard to make a 4D game cos' you have to consider things like hair growth, aging, seasons etc.
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 04:38
Quote: "I'm surprised Raven hasen't posted his theory on the subject!"

He's probably doing the smart thing and staying out of something that can't be proven.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
MikeS
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 05:03
Quote: "staying out of something that can't be proven."


but it could be... okay, nm.

Don't wanna start a flame war over her.

Yellow:Wanna publish my game microsoft, cuz i no u rich so...Can I have my bag of money now?
Microsoft: *snicker* Tip of the month-Microsoft will never(probebly) publish your game.
Mattman
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 05:22
He has proved it...

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Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 07:03
Take a few classes in Physics and you'll learn that nothing can be proven unless god comes down here and says, "Yes, I made it like that."

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 09:32
LOL! That was great. However Alas...that 'prove it' arguement can go both ways. Sorta like saying 'x is the first dimesion' then someone says PROVE IT! Or the name of our planet is Earth! ...PROVE IT!
It's more of a declaration(msp) I'd think

Anyway..that was my attempt at dry humor...forgive me. If I've started a flame war, then for the love of God I'm gonna be the one doing the flaming.

CHEERS!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 12:21
The difference between proving the name of our planet and the laws of physics is that we came up with the name, we didn't write the laws. Hence why any of our theories about gravity or whatever can be wrong, they're just models, they can't be proven.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Eric T
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 13:34
ahhhhhhhh the poor young wondering souls, pick up a physics book and you shall learn young baka(is that how it would be plural, i'm to tired to figure it out)


Let us assume that time is the 4th dimension, since we are confined to a lesser dimension, we cannot feel or see anything more than a projection of time. It is essentially equivalent to "flat land" falling through the 3rd dimension. Our understanding of time is limited at best and outright pathetic at worst.


ahh here we go now a bunch a posts saying i'm wrong. Boohooo deal with it. you guys just won't accept it.

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 15:12 Edited at: 20th Jul 2003 15:13
Is that what you people say? When you can't counter argue a point? You just think I picked up a book and read it in that? Go get a Uni degree in Physics and then you'll know what I'm talking about but until you do, your words are nothing but mindless blabbering to me.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that nothing says we're confined to the third dimension. We just don't know what the fourth is yet, if there even is a fourth dimension.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Flashing Blade
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 15:19
You can only see 3D with both eyes.

I don't remember much from school but I remember this:

Our art teacher told us when we paint a scenery/model/bowl of fruit/whatever that's in front of us, the best way is to close one eye. This is because we see things in 3D but paintings are obviously 2D, but if we only use one eye we see in 2D. He had us looking through a picture frame at the world in front of us and said 'could what you see be a picture?'. No 'cus thats 'real' - 'now close one eye' he said.
Didn't help me - I remained shit at art.
Eric T
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 15:44
if there is no 4th dimension then....we are confined to the 3rd dimension. And if the 4th dimension is time we are confined to the 3rd. if 4th is space we are confined to 3rd (you know the theory of infanite space). ect ect ect...

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 18:37
BIG YAWN.

Well yusuke. I believe your Sig has alot of meaning here .

I've argued the point of the 4th Dimension being time for some time on this board. Check back at the older post on the code snippets board. I had one individual tell me the 5th dimension was negative energy.

And Exeat. I think you adivce should go for every one.

"He's probably doing the smart thing and staying out of something that can't be proven."

That goes for everyone. Even you.


And sense you havent given me reason otherwise I fully expect a Juicy rebuttal from you.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 19:01
if a 4d game is where time passes so...does that make on-line games 4d? Like the new on line final fantasy game where time passes, ppl come and go, and players even age. Well i dont know, im leaving.

Mattman
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 19:10
ya.. that would make sense

---Mattman
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Drifter
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Posted: 20th Jul 2003 23:57
2D doesn't exist because every thing has depth. (alittle late but better then never)

"Sun makes me sneeze but thats a different story"
the_winch
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 01:44
Quote: "if a 4d game is where time passes so...does that make on-line games 4d? "


I think the point about 4d games was that it is marketing crap and serves no point other than to make people look a little closer at the box in the shop. All games involve time in some way.
Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 02:42
-2D doesn't exist because every thing has depth. (alittle late but

-better then never)

-----------

Wrong.

It isnt 3d cause you can see depth, it is 3d cause you can go in.

Somebody posted in this tread before that all is 2d what we see in our monitor, cause in fact the monitor is flat.

But this would be also wrong,cause the player can go in the depth, the pointer would be 2d, cause it can just be scaled to give the feeling.

---------------

4D isnt made or has been prooved.
It is LOGICALLY maded.

Time does exist, but there is no future and there isnt a past.

Why did the people came to this conclusion?

The past is always behind and CANT be lived again, Cant come again.
The future is always on TRANSICTION.
The future never stay future cause it becomes present and then past.

Now that you became a LOGICALLY understanding through the time exemple, let me explain 4D in a logical way and with a few words :

In 3d you can travel in the axis :
X , Y , Z .

But once you travel in time, Which axis do you take?
You take the 4th AXIS wich is UNKNOWN cause nobody knows were it takes you.

Once a game has this elemt, Then it can be called 4D and in NO way should it be represented as a normal 3d game.
Cause 4D is the MAX, wich is able to have 2d,3d and its natural elemet.


I Thinked my own AXIS for 4D, My own theory would be, that 4D (time) is the Rotate AXIS in wich you rotate at a very fast speed.
You rotate at yourself at a very high speed, that makes you able to stay while everything change.
Its like when your body is on ice, -200c , You stay, while time destroy gods creation.

-----
It is very easy to understand, i dont know why you people make a war out of this.

Sir_Crowley

Never Ending History

Sir_Crowley
Guyon
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 03:02
Drawing a square on a 2d paint program has no depth thus it is 2d.
Kanzure
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 03:33 Edited at: 21st Jul 2003 03:33
I've read something that made it simple..

OBJECTS ->
~~~TIME~~~~~~~You~~~
...............|
...............|
Concessinous

~Morph/Kanzure
CodeNation
Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 04:43
Giving personal theories is like painting a bulls eye on ones forhead.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 07:15
Quote: "Giving personal theories is like painting a bulls eye on ones forhead.
"


....And wich theory should be given?
Gods theory?

BTW, The only theory was the rotate axis, wich BTW, would be a logical one since rotatin at a fast speed would not affect the body letting the world change by its time while you keep in transiction without changes to yourself.

It is like the light.
200volt would kill you while 2000volts would not!

Never Ending History

Sir_Crowley
Arrow
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 07:46
Unless it's common knowledge it's don't mean swquat, esspecially here, and esspecially on such a topic. There is no proof that time is the 4th demension (same with the pervious 3).

Quote: "....And wich theory should be given?
Gods theory?"
God (chirstian ones at least) have no theory, only twp responces which can be give to any question.
1) It's a mystery.
2) God made it so.

Religion is the biggest thought killer of them all, just an excuse to not think, at least Mono-Deux ones.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Dave J
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 09:15
Quote: "And Exeat. I think you adivce should go for every one.

"He's probably doing the smart thing and staying out of something that can't be proven."

That goes for everyone. Even you. "

That's why I have. Never once have I put forth my opinion on what the 4th dimension is or could be. The only thing I've said so far is that nothing can be proven, and by looking at the Human races track record of getting things wrong (The Earth is flat and the center of the universe, ha!) I think it'd be pretty safe to assume I'm right.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Teep
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 13:05
personaly theres nothing more complex in 4th dimension then its simply: time. as for my theory, u cannot basically draw an axis for it.

as for mixing religion & science, i say what one certain priest said to me: science explains what is happening and religion explains why its happening

APEXnow
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 14:07
It's all a matter of perspective. Obviously, Time could be considered to be the forth dimension but that is a scientific assumtion based on the laws of physics, and einstein's general and special theories of relativity. If you are referring to the n-dimensional criterior such as fourth dimensional supercubes, these are geometrical or mathamatical representations of models which can be viewed on lower dimensional perspectives, although their representations defy explanation and literally tangle your brain in knots.

It's a very interesting subject though, look up nth dimensional shapes or fourth dimensional supercubes, loads of literature on the matter

APEX

MSI/AMD Athlon 1300, 256Mb, 60GbHD, SoundBlaster Live!, GeForce 4 MX440-64Mb, Win2K, DX9, DarkBASIC Pro(PUv4.1)
Preston C
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 18:38
I always though 4D was a "fake" dimension untill I read this forum. Where they would put you in front of a 3D scene, yet you werent in it, yet they would use the 4D to simulate you were actually in the scene. If you wondering where I got all of this dumb idiot babble, I got it from the "4D movies" at Busch Gardens. After all of you explained what your theories are, I came up with this theory. The moment we learn what 4D is when the 5th dimension, which was described to be negative energy, will come to kill us all.

At first glance, I'm a mediocre mech pilot. Look again and you will see my battlemech's computer code rushing through my eyes. My Mech And I Are One!
Energizer
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Posted: 21st Jul 2003 18:50
There is no such thing as real 4D games and movies.
The fourth dimension or time are beyon our understanding.
today no one can predict what will happen if someone could move through time,therfore it is not possible to create a game or a movie that deals with the fourth dimention.
on the other hand I think that movies and games that try to imitate movment in the fourth dimention are interesting and fun
(Back to the Future, The Terminator etc.).
Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 00:42 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2003 00:44
This is great.

Exeat invoked the word 'assume'. But all in all you've stuck to your word...while casting yet another stone

And I love Arrows statement. 'There is no proof that time is the 4th demension (same with the pervious 3).'

D*MN STRAIGHT. Scienctist have just been using that good ol' 4th variable and gettting things right. Einstiens theories have been vindicated over...and over...and over. The idea that time is LOGICALLY the 4th dimension has been around for a VERY long time.
Which doesnt make it right, it's just never been proven wrong. Thats a great track record.
Has anyone read 'the Time Traveler' by H.G Wells. If you had you'd noticed the way he referred to time

Lots of and Lots of rebellion here. Before anyone throws out another personal theory..go read a book on Phycis or SR. I did gasp.
And understand , us modest little programmers have our feet FIRMLY PLANTED IN THE AIR when we tell the whole of proven science they really dont have a clue. Such a poor defence. Then again people on this forum seem to be a special 'breed'

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
kilomain
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 10:09
ok ppl ppl on the side of the existence say that the fourth dimension is time ok? BUt can you prove time exists I mean if we're talking purely scientifically not taking into account religions or what your religions tells you Can you prove the existence of time. The concept of time was created by humans. Someone decided that becasue you became taller your hair grew or any other sign of maturing happened something caused this. So ppl begain measuring this thus, the concept of time. Now if the concept of time was created by humans then you cannot prove the 4th dimension since it is time. Yes it is true that the earth revolves, which humans also decided made time, seasons, dictated again by time, r just the earth getting colder or warmer. The entire concept of time can be argued as to not existing since the entire concept was just thought up and put into use by humans. Which means that the 4th dimension cannot even begin to be argued until time has been deemed true which it cannot since time cannot be proven to exist without humans on this earth the concept of time never would have been created

(this of course was not taking into account of religion like in the bible on earth's creation it counts off days so of course don't start flaming me about religion says this since now i will say it 3 times now this is not taking into account religion or your beliefs in your god/gods)

Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 10:38
Quote: "The idea that time is LOGICALLY the 4th dimension has been around for a VERY long time.
Which doesnt make it right, it's just never been proven wrong. Thats a great track record.
"

Would you like to know how many years people thought Heat was a colourless, odourless liquid? I'll give you a hint, it's in the millions.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
kilomain
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 10:49
so ppl were stupid or rather uneducated becuz stupid is being educateed and not using your knowledge so nvermind but so ppl were uneducated. and of course the 4th dimension cant at the moment be proven rong and it simply mcant becuz ppl r unwilling to admit that simply becuz the concept of time has been around since well for a loooooong time that time could actually not exist and until that subject comes into debate the existence of the 4th dimension cannot be proved wrong or right becuz of the fact that the existence of time must be proven first no substantial evidence can be brought up and used to prove the existence/non-existence of the 4th dimension this post was not meant to be an im rong your right type simply saying that none of us can until the proof of the concept of time would ever have come into existence without us.

sneaky
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 11:51
how can time be the 4th dimension?You cant actually see time,can you?

im confused now

Preston C
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 14:09
Quote: " Would you like to know how many years people thought Heat was a colourless, odourless liquid? I'll give you a hint, it's in the millions.
"
Thats funny

At first glance, I'm a mediocre mech pilot. Look again and you will see my battlemech's computer code rushing through my eyes. My Mech And I Are One!
Energizer
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 15:58
I dont agree with you Kilomain,I think that time is something that doesn't need to be proved coz "Time" is the name of a procces that hapens in our world ,as long as our clocks tiks and our hair grows there is time.
Time is is a scale by which we measure changes ,therefore as long as there are changes there will be time.
Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 03:18
Quote: "Would you like to know how many years people thought Heat was a colourless, odourless liquid? I'll give you a hint, it's in the millions."
That is fuuny considering that Humans have only been around for 12,000 years.

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HZence
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 06:55
shizzle: "Well I never, a game which involves thinking and doing stuff."

I know. Gawd, they better not come out with another one of those...erm...whaddaya call 'em these days...erm...games! Yeah! They better not come out with another one of these games that require me to do more thinking than I do while I sleep.

Cuz if they do...*shakes fist threateningly*

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 07:31
Quote: "That is fuuny considering that Humans have only been around for 12,000 years.
"

Funny, I thought everyone here knew what 'exaggeration' meant.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Preston C
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 08:08
Exaggeration? What does this mean? J/K

At first glance, I'm a mediocre mech pilot. Look again and you will see my battlemech's computer code rushing through my eyes. My Mech And I Are One!

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