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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / Can you have ragdoll physics in Dark Physics?

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SJH
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Posted: 15th Dec 2008 01:28
Is it possible to have ragdoll physics in Dark Physics? After searching the forum, I've only found this program called Newton Game Dynamics, and to be honest when ever I install it, it never works (plus I can't find the DLL). To just get around this problem, I have maybe four questions:

1.)Can you have ragdoll physics in Dark Physics?
-If so, then is DarkPhysics its own language or another programing language, or is it drag and drop or DBP
2.)Is Newton its own language, or does it go on another language, or is it just drag and drop?
-If so I'll just go to the other forum where asking this question about Newton is appropriate, and where I won't get noob slapped
Slayer93
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Posted: 15th Dec 2008 02:00
DarkPhysics does support Ragdoll Physics but from what I hear it doesn't work quite right with skinned models. And both Newton and DarkPhysics are wrappers for physics libraries to be used in DBP. Both are suppose to be used in DBP and are not their own programming language, both require you to know how to programming in DBP (no drag and drop).

SJH
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Posted: 15th Dec 2008 23:29
Cool. Ok, so pretty much Newton is better for Ragdoll, Darkphysics is better for just other physics like falling blocks, and both work with DBP, not drag and drop not their own language. OK, I know I'm gonna get Dark Physics and Dark AI soon, but about Newton. I know it's free and all, but I always have problems downloading. Everytime I download it, unzip the file and finish the set up, Newton isn't there. Am I done downloading Newton, or is there a part that I don't get?

PS: I know I'll probably get Noob slapped, but instead of having to keep track of many forums, I'd just rather ask in this one. Ok, now, what id DarkBASICS highest possible framerate for a game? A friend of mine told me a while ago that current games look like they have 60 fps. Personally, I'm not sure, and in case he is right I just want to know what the highest framerate is for DBP.

Thanks if anyone answers:

-SJH
Slayer93
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 00:34
Quote: "Cool. Ok, so pretty much Newton is better for Ragdoll, Darkphysics is better for just other physics like falling blocks, and both work with DBP, not drag and drop not their own language. OK, I know I'm gonna get Dark Physics and Dark AI soon, but about Newton. I know it's free and all, but I always have problems downloading. Everytime I download it, unzip the file and finish the set up, Newton isn't there. Am I done downloading Newton, or is there a part that I don't get?"


Well I can't really comment on newton being better for Ragdoll as I have never used it, but what do you mean Newton isn't there? Did you put everything in the right folder and the commands aren't working?

Quote: "
PS: I know I'll probably get Noob slapped, but instead of having to keep track of many forums, I'd just rather ask in this one. Ok, now, what id DarkBASICS highest possible framerate for a game? A friend of mine told me a while ago that current games look like they have 60 fps. Personally, I'm not sure, and in case he is right I just want to know what the highest framerate is for DBP.
"


Why would you get Noob Slapped. Framerate depends on the computer, slower computers will get a lower framerate, but faster computers will obviously have more. 60 fps is usually the norm as that is fluid enough so a game won't look choppy. Although timer-based movement is usually the way to go.

SJH
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 01:00 Edited at: 17th Dec 2008 01:56
So are you saying that DBP can support any framerate? If so that is impressive. I was just asking because in the information guide for DBP it says for sync rate:

Quote: "The default rate sustains the "Frames Per Second" at no more than 40fps. You can specify an integer value from 1 to 1000 to set a new maximum rate."


I dont' get it. when it says the defualt sync rate is 40 and you can adjust it, does it mean when you open up DBP it has the default, and if you open a new file you can change it? And just so I don't confuse myself, when you sync the screen, as in refresh it, does that make the quality good?

Ok, let me rephrase that. Is there any code you can input into DBP for a framerate, or does that depend on the fps of the 3D objects or animation. And what exactly is sync-ing. I know that it means refreshing the screen, but is the program just refreshing itself to get codes faster? I don't understand the concept really, and that is what I've been worried about lately. It would be freat if someone explained it

-SJH
Slayer93
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 01:11
Quote: "
I dont' get it. when it says the defualt sync rate is 40 and you can adjust it, does it mean when you open up DBP it has the default, and if you open a new file you can change it? And just so I don't confuse myself, when you sync the screen, as in refresh it, does that make the quality good?"


Not sure what you mean, but hopefully I can answer it. Not Sure why it says the default is 40 fps because when you put Sync On it is automatically set to go as fast as it can.

I don't understand by what you mean "make the quality good" sync updates the screen.

Quote: "Ok, let me rephrase that. Is there any cod eyou can input into DBP for a framerate, or does that depend on the fps of the 3D objects or animation. And what exactly is sync-ing. I know that it means refreshing the screen, but is the program just refreshing itself to get codes faster? I don't understand the concept really, and that is what I've been worried about lately. It would be freat if someone explained it "


You can get the fps using Screen FPS() if that is what you mean. Using sync updates the screen. Not sure how to explain this but when you draw something with your code (text, images, objects, etc.) it won't actually update what is displayed until you call sync. Does that make sense?

SJH
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 01:57
So sync is only if you're loading something, and you can set the FPS by the code Screen FPS() ? In that case, my last question is what is teh highest FPS you can have for the game, or is there any limit at all? Oh yea, and about the sync refreshing thing, do you have to put in a sync rate, because if you just put in sync on, shouldn't the default sync rate for that be 0, for it would refresh every 0 frames? So what I'm getting is when you put in a sync rate you really just tell the computer how many frames it should wait before refreshing. In that case, wouldn't a game be better with a sync of 0, or am I getting at the whole thing wrong?

Thanks for answering the questions

-SJH
Slayer93
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 02:44
No sync is not for loading, its just refreshing the screen.

Maybe I misread your question but to set the fps you use FPS Rate and Screen FPS is to tell you what the fps is.

There is not limit for fps, you can have it as high or low as you want.

The Default is as fast as your computer can go and setting the fps to 0 will set it to go as fast also.

When you set the sync rate it is telling the computer how many frames it goes through each second.

SJH
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Posted: 16th Dec 2008 04:17 Edited at: 17th Dec 2008 01:55
I'm not really new to DBP, but since I've been seriously procrastinating on learning DBP, I don't really know as much. Ok, anyways, the Sync stuff, ok, so when DBP definitions uses the term "refreshing", does it mean it is refreshing the screen as in like refreshing the internet? Anything new that happened such as a character in the game moved its arm a frame, does the game require the screen to refresh so it shows that frame? Sorry, I understand other things about DBP, but I don't comlpetely understand the concept of sync-ing , and frame rates (in DBP). The main thing is that I don't understand what it means when it refreshes the screen. What is the sync rate? What is the frame rate for DBP? What is refreshing? I'm so confused right now

OK, let me rephrase that. Isn't the quality better if you have more frames per second and have less of a time limit for sync so it refreshes the screen faster. I maybe new to DarkBASIC Professional a bit, but I am pretty sure from the past four years of animating that the more frames you have to a second the better the quality

The only thing I still don't understand is what does it mean by refreshing? Is it like frames per second? Does it refresh as in refreshing in the speed of light every frame or as fast as the computer will allow? I'm not sure, sorry for too many questions. But it still feels good to know that some people take time out of their lives to answer simple questions like mine

-SJH

PS: Its pretty funny for what you put for where you live
Butter fingers
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Posted: 21st Dec 2008 05:34
Ok,

if you watch a tom and jerry cartoon, it plays 25 frames of animations every second? So 25 images are drawn to the screen every second?

When you make a game DBP is just doing that. Imagine that your code is generating another world, and that's a world that will exist EVEN IF YOU DON'T SYNC. In that other world you will place cameras, and every time you SYNC that camera will take a snapshot of that other world and render it to your screen.

get it?

Most people will SYNC just before the loop command. FOr example.
your whole code... in pretend... might look like this:



If you think back to Tom and Jerry, the code is like the animator, drawing the individual frames onto the page, and deciding what is in each frame. the sync command just plays that image to the screen. If you are rendering 60 frames in a second, you will obviously obtain smoother animation than if sync the camera only 5 frames per second.

I hope this is makine sense. If you tell DBP to set the sync rate at 100FPS, it will update the screen every o.o1 seconds, and not faster. You are effectively telling it, not to update the screen any more that 100 times in a second. This is why, if you do not limit the Sync rate, DBP will update the screen as many times as it can, meaning you could have an FPS up to anything.

SJH
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Posted: 21st Dec 2008 06:48
Ooh, I get it. Thanks Butter fingers. I guess that at the time I asked what sync and framerates were in DBP I was a bit stressed and lost track of my original question. You helped me clear my mind and helped me understand what this all means, thank you, but now I'm just thinking. What is better for ragdoll physics in DarKBASIC Professional? (Oh, and while you're at it, could you answer what is the best graphics DBP can have. Can DBP support complicated graphics and 3D models, and do the graphics get better with larger models, and if possible a larger camera or something? After seeing some samples of games made in DBP, all the DGDK examples looked better. I know DGDK is better, but can DBP support amazing, and I mean, AMAZING graphics?)

Thanks for answering,

-SJH
Butter fingers
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Posted: 26th Dec 2008 11:59
The physical size of your models will make no difference to their quality of screen. Neither will the size of the camera.

The amount of polygons on your model will have a positive effect on the quality of the model, but will have an adverse (bad) effect on the speed of your game, as it takes more CPU or GPU or whatever to handle a high poly model.

Of course, we now have techniques like bump/normal/paralax shading which allow you to texture a lowpoly model with a very high detail map, making it look like there is more geometry on the model than there actually is.

In answer to your final question, DBP and DGDK both rely on the same commands for their graphics ( i think). The look of your game will be as good as you can make it. DBP can handle any of those Next Gen things that make games look Oh SO Sexy, but your going to have to be clever with your coding to stop those things killing your FPS!

Rico109
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 01:11
alright, noob question warning, so If you don't wanna hear it, don't open the code snippet!!!!!



Ok, so if you read that then you are probably thinking...
A) that is a really stupid and/or noobish question
B) You got a point there, but nothing to get upset about
C) I can't believe I wasted Five whole seconds reading that junk!
D) both "A" and "C" and somewhat of D
BillR
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Posted: 31st Dec 2008 05:06
FPS - Frames Per Second
Was used LONG before there was such a thing as First Person Shooter.
SJH
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Posted: 31st Dec 2008 19:56
Yea, I know what ya mean. After being an animater for 4 years and then switching over to game making, fps started to get on my nerves. And Rico, I choose B.

Ok, anyways, Butter fingers, Everytime you load a model into dbp and play it, the model's edges show a great lack of quality, (you can see the with the direction of the line the small pixels there). I know now the more polygons you have, the better the quality, (including the edges). Is there any program that reduces the amount of plygons but keeps the exact same quality? And also could you tell me how much of a lag there will be if there are more polygons? Like it will lag every 5 minutes for 10 seconds, or it will lag 20% of the time.

Oh, and if it isn't too much trouble could someone tell me some instructions or where to get instructions on installing Newton Physics? (I'm going to get Dark Physics, AI, Lights, and all that, but currenty I just want to use Newton Physics from Walabar)

Thanks for answering, and definently not noob slapping me, it feels good to know that there are people who'll answer my questions truthfully and not just take the time to ruin a forum and insult people.

-SJH
jason p sage
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 01:25
SJH - "Edges" Quality? You are ferring to something anti-aliasing does for ya - makes edges appear less (or not at all) pixelated by some magical averaging of color values. some video Card "utilities" that come with various video cards (nVidia does) have an option to turn on anti-Alias directly - and set the quality - and/or allow the "software" (said game) to control this feature.

I've heard different statements about it over the years in DBPor/DarkGDK but I don't know the status because for me its not a biggie yet and is an eyecandy feature to me - get the game going first - worry about anti-alias when I have a game to knit-pick LOL

As for newton, it's not an easy physics lib to code to from what I hear. Typically installing newton I thought was just a dll named newton.dll needing to be in the PATH of your PC or in the dir of your game (typically the working directory when you open your game up) Now if there is a special plug in or something for DBPro to use newton - I'm not sure - but I thought is was just some standard DLL calls. (Someone help me answer this LOL)

hmmm.... We can't have you too comfortable... "Noob slap Noob Slap" LOL ... Just kidding - welcome aboard and have fun!!!!

--Jason

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