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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Move the view point in skyboxes down.

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fallen one
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 17:05
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I want to move the viewpoint down in skyboxes, its set to be halfway up the skybox, if I move the skybox model up, then it doesnt render the skybox in game at all, if I create a bigger skybox with my skybox inside it, then move the inner skybox up, then it wont render the skybox either. How FPSC renders skyboxes is very odd, Im not sure how it does things, both my techniques should work, but dont, anyone know how fpsc renders out a skybox, as I find the viewpoint for the camera being half way up the skybox to be too high up, you want the camera to be 3/4 the way down the skybox, not half way up as its set.

Any ideas here?

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 17:15
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Doesn't FPSC editor default to the middle of the buildable grid area? Is it different if you first spam the minus key when making a new level and then put the floor/player marker on a lower level?
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fallen one
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 17:43
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No, I'm talking about skybox, skyboxes normally work by having a separate box with 6 images on them, in the middle we have a camera, the camera takes pictures of the 6 walls, in the real level, the image from the camera in the skybox is projected onto the walls of the real level. This is how it used to work in the unreal engine, in FPSC, I'm not sure how they have done things.

I don't even think it works with a camera inside a box that projects the image onto the walls of the real level, because when we make a skybox with a smaller box inside, and we move the smaller box up, so that the centre line is now looking at the smaller box that is pushed up, there by looking at the box from lower down, we haven't changed the viewpoint, only by moving the inner box up, so in turn its looking lower down. Well that doesn't work. I think fpsc users some odd way of doing things that is completely different to what other engines would do. Id love to hear how the engine works in this respect. Id sure like to change where its viewpoint is, as having the camera half way up the skybox image doesn't work very well.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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rolfy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 21:29
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FPSC uses a box to project onto which can cause distortion if a building or cliff renders onto the ceiling, this is only noticed however when the camera is panned, you see it 'out of the corner of your eye', skyboxes can be a cylinder or sphere which have less distortion if the scene is rendered out using a lower point of view.
Would be cool if FPSC could use sphere projection, Bryce actually does do panoramic renders from a single camera which does save a lot of work and time. Still no matter which method is used its tricky when you want to create a scene with close objects such as a city.
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fallen one
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 21:34
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I think fpsc can only use a box, 10 units high, I dont think it can do other shapes, have you tried?

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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rolfy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 22:14 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 23:40
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Not sure about the scale, would need to open the .x in the skybank folders.
I have used a box (not the ones in skybank) which I am sure I made the same size as the grid. Tricky to place and it needs to be exact or it wont render, it needs to be placed on the bottom level obviously. Trouble with these is that it wont shift with the camera so you can get real close to the walls of it and the illusion of space is lost.
I dont know if any of the coders around here can change the scource to use sphere or cylinder skyboxes, would be nice if it could be optional.
In the first garden level of Eldora the mountain tops actually do project onto the ceiling but no distortion of this is noticable, same with the Marek's lair level, I havent actually tried to do a city scape might be interesting to look into.
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fallen one
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 22:27
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I can live with distortion its the camera being too high that bugs me. Ill try a really big skybox and see if the camera is fixed so in theory will be placed lower relativly too the bottom of the skybox.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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rolfy
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 23:27
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The only way is to render the skybox itself from a lower viewpoint in your render program whether ir be Max or Bryce or whatever.
I have had good results with rendering close to the terrain itself in Max.
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fallen one
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 23:51 Edited at: 30th Jan 2009 00:04
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For my new skybox collection I painted the skyboxes, much quicker than modelling city scenes, so I cant lower the render.
just did some more messing about, no, fpsc system is rigid, you cannot do anything to it, you would think you could move the box up and down or scale it or put a box or object inside it, I didn't think it would when I started, Id love to hear how Lee designed the skybox system and how it works, I think he has gone about it in some unconventional manner, hence you cannot change it in any way, I'm curious though as to how exactly it really works.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Nickydude
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Posted: 30th Jan 2009 00:23
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Have you tried emailing Lee directly to get a definitive answer?

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 30th Jan 2009 01:14
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Yeah so I'm not really getting this. Here's a picture from one of your skyboxes. Looks pretty low to me.

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rolfy
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Posted: 30th Jan 2009 02:44 Edited at: 30th Jan 2009 02:48
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The above post illustrates the other side of the coin, if you were to use floors where you viewed the outside through windows it would appear that you hadnt actually moved up any
But yeah that particular skybox looks like the viewpoint is from ground level. You would also have to be careful that the terrain you place wasnt too large for that kinda view or the trees would appear huge.
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fallen one
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Posted: 30th Jan 2009 09:17 Edited at: 30th Jan 2009 20:45
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I have an idea, Ill take a cube that has been rendered with skybox images, then Ill smooth the sides, so it turns into a sphere, hopefully the images are still mapped correctly, then import it into bryce, put the camera inside the sphere, then render it, it should then have the skybox cubed but as its mapped from a sphere onto a cube, so we get rid of that squared thing, also I can also put the camera lower as well.

update, I mapped the images to a sphere, put them in bryce and rendered it, it works, I can alter the camera and change the position to make it work better for fpsc.
2nd update, moving the camera makes seams in the skybox when rendered in bryce. So FAIL

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Avid
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Posted: 31st Jan 2009 14:18
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I've never really encountered this problem as I render my skyboxes in Max, which basically involves placing a cube within a sky sphere, and rendering out each face.

Visit my site http://www.fpsmodels.com for models and media for fps creator.
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fallen one
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Posted: 31st Jan 2009 15:18
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You will have the problem if you paint the skybox, painting a skybox is often quicker than doing it in 3d.

I have fixed this by rendering the skybox, within a 3d prog, with the camera lower, so its a sky box within a skybox if you like, that solves the problem as the output skybox is then with a lower view point.

When doing skyboxes for fpsc, you have to make the scene higher up than what one would do for any other engine. so making skyboxes for fpsc makes them less useable for other engines. Like I said, the view point is too high.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Posted: 31st Jan 2009 16:50
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Would it be possible to make a different skybox.x file? I'd give it a crack, unless anyone knows it really isn't possible.

Visit my site http://www.fpsmodels.com for models and media for fps creator.
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fallen one
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Posted: 31st Jan 2009 17:21
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I did a sphere skybox. It went into fpsc, but here is the thing, I dont think fpsc even uses the model, the skyshere looked ingame just the same as a box. I dont think fpsc even uses the model, if it does its just as a guide, like this face is north this one south, I think it just references the texture. its not a skybox how other engines work as in a camera projecting the skybox model view into the level.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 1st Feb 2009 16:22
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fallen one: I saw this thread,and got around to visiting your site. All I can say is Wow! Your skybox packs are awesome! I can kick myself in the butt for not checking them out sooner. So to spare my rear the humiliation, I bought both packs yesterday.

Great work my friend.

PS, Sorry for the off topic post.

In the Universe, nothing ever stays the same.
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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Feb 2009 17:28
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I didnt know the links was working or up, Ill look in my paypal for it. Just got to look over a program to convert a phone app of miine to android first, then Ill get on the order.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Feb 2009 21:23
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Ive found your order in my paypal.
My site doesnt have them for sale, infact it says they are not for sale and to enquire. to order them you have done a search for them on these boards, as there is no direct link to buy them on my site when visiting the web page, there isn't even a store.

Whats happened is you have searched under my posts on the board, found when I had a half price sale 'once', that page is not accessible from my home page or from any link on my homepage. It was left on my server, but has no way to get to it from my site. Now Ive had this problem before, someone contacted me as my site says this product is no longer for sale, contact if you want to buy, they contacted me, and I sent them a link to buy it, they then ordered, but somehow found the old half price page, that is not accessible from my site at all, and ordered from a dead page at half price. I told them they are not available from dead pages they took it to search for, by either running a site check, or looking for dead links that are still active from old threads from way back. I told them to either retract the paypal they went out and searched for , and found some how. Or order the thing again from the half price page, to buy it at the proper price. Also, if you are from the US, buying them in UK pounds will be cheaper due to the exchange rates, buying in UK pounds sterling is cheaper, not USD. What you need to do, is retract, as for a link to the product, and then buying in pounds, that is cheaper.

This is the advice, Ill give you, either retract it, or order again, cheapest, is cancelling the order, then asking for link to buy at the correct price, but buying in GBP as that will be the cheapest.

If you check the site, instead of searching for dead links that wasnt scrubbed from the server, The site says the skyboxes, are not actually available. it says so, on my site. the only way to get them, is by contacting me. There is no store on my site. I don't send products to those that have gone and searched for dead pages, that are not accessible from my site. Ill let you decide to either re order again at the dead page you found, or retract the order and ask for a link to buy them, or just retract the ordere compleatly. I'm then going to check over my server for these dead pages and delete them so no one can ever go and search for these inaccessible pages by being a bit crafty.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 01:55 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 05:25
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Quote: "as there is no direct link to buy them on my site when visiting the web page"


After viewing the slide show, on your site, this is the link I used to make my purchase. I was directed to your site by the link attached to your banner.
Not by searching old links. There was nothing crafty about it!

You should check the links on your site before throwing acusations around.

I was directed to an ordering page where I placed the order. When I checked it again today, I got the 404 page not found message.

See the screenshot!

If this was an error on the part of your server, Then you are certainly not at fault. But you should correct this problem to avoid future mishaps. I thought I was geetting a good deal there. And posted here to brag on your work.

I'll retract my order.

In the Universe, nothing ever stays the same.

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Nickydude
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 12:59
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I checked the link after CP said he bought them, because I know you said they can no longer be bought, It does seem like the links are still active, see attached. Don't know if the payment would actually go through though.

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fallen one
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 13:49
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I checked through the site, from the pages you cant find a link to the store, but I went to the slide show, for some reason one could get a link from the pop up menu, dont know how that worked, but thats computers for you, I went through the files on my server and found a stray page, I deleted that, there is no way to get to a page to buy now as there are no store pages on the server. So that sould of cleared that one.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:22
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Fallen one: I'm glad you got that worked out. Sorry, I did'nt mean to stir things up. But to show there are no hard feelings, I'll not go through with my order retraction, you go ahead and keep the money I paid. and in return how about posting a free Skybox for everyone here on the forums.

Fair deal?

In the Universe, nothing ever stays the same.
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fallen one
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:50 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 16:53
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Id sooner you retract the order, I'm really busy at the moment, I'm trying to convert an app for mobile phones, unlike these boards which are helpful, ones with technophiles have people with borderline autism, getting a response is like talking to the dead. God I just hate nerds, they seem to think everyone has time to fiddle with whatever language or program they spend there lives on, here's an idea, multi tasking and multi skills, I can do stuff outside of computers, can you, there's more to life than programming Java and watching whatever trash your autism obsession has for you you, star trek or whatever it is you watch.

Once I have my pipeline sorted, I can hit 3 mobile platforms and rake the cash it, quite frankly after that, I couldn't care less about a 12 quid order. I couldn't really care less about selling skyboxes period. That's why I took them down. I also don't like owing anybody anything, that's why Id sooner you retract the order, either that or re order and then they are at the full price. You should of read the product page, then contacted me if you wanted them and Id tell you what they cost and where to get them and sorted it all for you at the best price and the link for it, which for USD whould of been I think 34 USD for 1+2 OOTB skboxes, though one has to check the exchange, its up and down like a yo yo, now you have created problems when I'm trying to get my life sorted. Which will be sorted once those Autism suffering nerds answer my question that is like a 2 lined answer, and I can finally release my app.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 17:08
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Fine, Keep it anyway, it's not worth my time either. We're done here.

In the Universe, nothing ever stays the same.
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fallen one
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 17:11
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Ill cut you some slack, Ill send you two skyboxes for your film skybox project, a starship troopers one and a new bladerunner one I did the other day.

have a think on that, right bath time for me and a hot chocolate. I need some me time.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 21:38
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I've just done my first skybox image render and placed the camera position closer to the water plane for a lower view.

As far as I can tell you can give whatever perspective you like (see attached).

I've not tried this in FPSC yet though as it took 2 hours to render 1 of the 6 images required at 1024x1024.

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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 11:57
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Nomad soul, thats a render, my cities are not, they are paintings. so one cannot put the camera down, I had a word with Lee, and got some info back on how fpsc does skyboxes, I think the problem was my export setting, Ive seen what fpsc can do from Lees example and info on camera placem,ent, I'm going back to the first idea I had to solve it, but this time, Ill change my export settings and I think it may work, either that or I just import the skybox in bryce and change the camera and render out a render of my painted skybox, that works as well as Ive tried it.

Jolly Good http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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