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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / CD-CHECK, AGAIN?!?!?!?!?!

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Jack Nukem
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 13:30
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NOW I'M REALLY PISSED OFF! I THOUGHT THAT PATCH2 WILL SOLVE
THIS ANNOYING CD CHECK BUT NO, I'M TRYING TO LEARN THE LANGUAGE AND I CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S KEEP ASKING ME TO INSERT THE ORIGINAL DISC!!!

I'M VERY UPSET AND ANGRY NOW!!!

JACK
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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 13:57
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Someone posted a little registry fix for this, but I can`t find the link.
The .reg file posted contained the following text (which I think you can just put in a text file and save it as 'something.reg', then, whenever it asks for the CD, click on OK, double click this, then try again):-

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows Info]
"fileinfo"="6"
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HippyGoth
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 14:00
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Well why don't you insert the original disk? The CD check is part of the protection.

I'm not sure, and I know someone will confirm, but I thought patch 2 was dropping the CD request as well. You may also wish to scour this group for suggestions on how to get around the CD check.

Eddie.
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Hubdule
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 14:36
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There will be posibility to get rid of the cd check in the near future. As I've read at DBDN they work on something so you won't need a cd check

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Kale
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 14:41
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change this key in the registry and you'll never need the cd again

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows Info]
"fileinfo"="-99999999"

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 14:59
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He He, nice one, that never occurred to me.
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Peter
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 18:08
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On the german DBP-site I've read that the darkbasic-team is planing a hardware-dongle.......Oh yes, it's true...

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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 18:36
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Oddly I don`t think that would bother me as much, the problem with having to have the CD in is partly possible damage to the CD, partly wait time while it looks up the CD and mostly the annoyance of having to wait for the CD to spin up every time I pop up an explorer window just to look at my drives.
A hardware dongle, although annoying enough, would not be as bad as that (I hope!).
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xtom
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 20:28
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No way a dongle would suck big time. I'd rather have the cd check than an extra piece of crap connected to my pc. Using up system resources with it running in the background etc. Besides I don't think it would be too cost effective to incorperate dongles. I hope they're just wild rumours.
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Dazzy
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 22:51
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A dongle would solve nothing.

Restriction to the updates is the only thing that will help in the long run in my view!

Dazzy
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 01:37
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How on earth would a dongle "use up system resources" ?? It's not like a printer or anything! It's hardly going to suck the processing power away from your box is it? I think that's a slight over-reaction. If you own a legal copy of 3DS Max does the dongle suck your PC dry? Didn't think so

And the dongle "rumours" are actually true - we're not enforcing a dongle, it won't be included in the box or anything and people won't have to buy them in order to use DBPro - but if they WANT to, they can. The reason this came about is actually because we sell DBPro to a number of Universities and they needed hardware level protection on the server it runs from as opposed to giving students CDs (because we all know how well that'd work out!). Hence where it came from. But I guess a serious user could benefit from it too.

In the meantime the registry thing will do the trick, but I can't promise for how long.

"I'm not sure, and I know someone will confirm, but I thought patch 2 was dropping the CD request as well."

It was never promised Patch 2 would remove the CD check when compiling, only when running DBPro. It's part of the protection I'm afraid. We are looking at alternatives however.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Jamie
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 09:08
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Well I for one would like to see the check gone for good in a patch... I use db pro both on my notebook and my desktop.. and sometimes it catches me away from home on my notebook and the cd will be at home in the desktop.

pleeaaase remove the cd check. lol add it to the 30 day trail haha

Jamie

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 10:49
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i would have thought a better option for universities and such would be a special OEM Licence version they get a Licence key which registers with the original Server Machine, allowing the compiler to be sitated only on the server - but the editor and everything pertaining to the creation on the User machine
If you setup a special database for windows username - then the college/uni could allow certain people access to the product. This way only one CD is ever used for the entire instatute which is in the hands of the actual Technicions

I admit the CD Check (comming from the DarkMatter POV) is quite annoying ... i mean technically you have to copy the CD to use it on several systems, but doing that makes the check pointless - and just agrovating to alot of the users, i mean come on you've seen most coders workareas - unless its something on the top they've lost it for a week

Possibly the best alternative is Online Database Activation, something similar to what AuthentiCode provides - you can use it offline for say 30days or 30uses, but after that the product is useless until you activate. I mean as most people will only ever purchase a single copy of DarkBasic/DarkMatter/Proffesional, you can have it that if thier login notes that they have more than 5 different copies registered then there is something fishy going on... especially if someone has several hundred copies

The setup for AuthentiCode is quite a simple premise ...
To activate a product a user requires a CD-Key which must be varified in the online database, to access this database they can sign up for free - but then that copy is registered ONLY to that login name.

the online database actually resembles that of Windows Registration ... doesn't mean it is as easy to access however
User -> Products -> LicenceKey -> Copy -> ComputerID

also with the fact that there is a setup for say only 1 in 10 keys will be valid ... however all 10 activate, this allows AuthentiCode to report known pirates

until people authorise online then they'll have to keep using the CD Check - which would be a good idea, especially if you put the Authenticator for the Compiler into an uncopyable file which i'm still not sure howto achieve in C++ (you guys probaby do) but i remember how in DOS

If the copy is registered online, then the authenticator will take down the users details - it won't pay for users to give thier friends copies as this would raise alot of suspicion, especially as we allow for upto 5users per copy - however it also means upon reinstallion all the user has to do is log on the net and voila 5seconds later the computer finds that this is a valid user

i mean there are other certain safeguards in place but that is pretty simply what i've done (^_^)
perhaps it can give you guys ideas

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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HippyGoth
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 14:09
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Given the choice, I'd have a dongle anyday.

The worst part about protection, is the more secure, the more annoying for legitimate customers.

Raven has a good idea.

Eddie.
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 14:14
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Alternatly, why not just check the CD just once when you start your session.

"Earth is the cradle of humanity,
but one cannot live in a cradle forever"
Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky (1911)
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Jamie
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 14:36
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hmm... I vote.. your brand new db pro package arrives.. you open the sealed box.. stick it into the computer.. the computer verifies the real cd

and uses that 120gig hd to remember you had the cd the first time around without asking again

just my opinion of course

Jamie

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Rylex
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 15:43
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I've bought DBPro and just when I noticed that the program needs the CD, I threw the CD into my CD-burner and made an exact 1:1 copy of the CD.
Not to make you all unhappy but the CD is really easy to copy. So why include a CD-copy protection? Don't understand me wrong - I pay for software, but when I see that a program like DarkBasic needs a CD to Compile an application, then I make a private copy (which is 100% legal).

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 18:41
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Kinda the point i've made Rylex... there is a way to hide files from being copied - even a duplicate copy
however the DBS team never used it making the CD Check a bit useless.

i'm still on my quest for getting some useable new functions into DB Standard/Enhanced/Pro - hopefully once i get home tonite (after my lil 5th Nov celebration, oki so 10bottle rockets, a cathrine wheel, something called a Mowaki Screamer and some beers ... last one probably should stay last (hopefully ben won't talk me into what he did on halloween))
i'll get back to working on my stuff...

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Bulleyes
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 20:32
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Rylex, how did you make a 1:1 copy of your DBpro?

I wanted to create a backup copy of my DBpro to prevent scratches occurs during frequent CD-check. What CD-burning software you used for that? I had tried using my Nero Burning room, but it doesn't work.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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xtom
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 20:35
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Well we have a dongle for a program in work and it gives us all sorts of grief. The printer goes through it and causes crashes etc. I'm not saying all dongles cause such problems and it's probably the drivers or program or whatever that's at fault but I just don't like the things, I hate them with a passion.
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Megaman X
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 04:44
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CloneCD Rulz

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 04:46
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Oh yeah, unconnected but Laura Pausini also rulz

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Bulleyes
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 05:23
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I had tried CloneCD using Fast error skip ON, but it's still not working. I can duplicate the CD, but when running the installation, it ask me to insert the original disk again.

How did you do it? Did you use Data CD copy or Game CD copy?

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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Rylex
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 10:31
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There's only one tool and only real professionals are using it. No I don't mean CloneCD - I mean:

BlindWrite Suite (www.blindwrite.com)

The Suite consists of 2 Programms:
- BlindRead (used for reading CDs) (active Read P-W subs)
- BlindWrite (used for writing CDs) (use DAO PW mode)

You need to have a CD-writer (like Liteon 32x/12x/40x) that can read P-W subcodes. Then You burn the image using the writing mode DAO PW and the CD-Copy-Protection is history

Well - don't blame me - I HAVE an original bought DB Pro at home. (I'm only a bit alergic against CD-protections)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 11:03
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EasyCD 5 tends to copy almost any CD - you can copy Playstation CD, DreamCast CD, PS2 DvD and Xbox DvD - but you require the industry plugins for it to allow for the format headers. They don't sell them to peeps but i'm sure some of you if you wanted to REALLY copy Games that bad could be resourceful enough - personally think its the best copy software cause it has a ZeroBurn underwrite, not wasted a single CDR/CDRW/DvD-RAM yet with it

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Rylex
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 11:13
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I still think if you need a good game then buy it.
If the game is not worth the money then don't play it!
It's not worth to buy a new CD-writer every month just to be sure you can copy every game
The same goes for application software (like DB)

And while I think about the MOD-support I'm already thinking if DB Pro was worth the money.
Up to now I think NOT!

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Ravey
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 14:37
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The guy that uses DBPro on his notebook and pc at home - is that legal? have you bought two copies? by the sounds of it you only have one cd so i would guess not. I havent got the license with me but most say you can only have it installed on one machine at any one time - i would read the license to make sure if i were you.
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Kale
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 14:45
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it really doesn't matter what protection is used, crackers always get round it. Its just an annoyance to legitamate users <sigh>

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Rylex
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 15:05
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> it really doesn't matter what protection is used,
> crackers always get round it. Its just an annoyance to
> legitamate users <sigh>

You're right!
If nobody would crack software then we would not need these annoying protections.

On the other side: If I myself see such an annoying protection I really would like to remove it

If anything can be done about cracking this software with a "No-CD-crack" then I would really be happy!
(Once again: I really bought this software

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Rob K
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 18:21
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Hahahaha!

Raven, no offence but EasyCD 5 is rubbish. You CAN'T copy XBOX DVD (unless the console has a mod-chip) which doesn't count as proper copying because mod-chipped consoles get round all copy-protection.

CloneCD, BlindWrite and Alcohol are the real copying programs.

You need a LiteON writer though.

Anyway, the real point is that having to insert the CD is annoying, used the published hacks or get Daemon-Tools. I can't believe that there are still people who haven't read the solution yet. GuyS moaned at me for "telling people how to get round DBP's CD Prot", but let's face it, a registry value, not even encrypted is utterly useless.

what is a signature?
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Rob K
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 18:26
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Better piracy protection? If you want to make a backup of the DBP CD, you must have a certain writer, go to the elby.de website and look up the writers that have two sheeps under EFM burning in the writer support table. LiteON's are best and very cheap.

@Rich: Just have an OfficeXP protection style system, but make it better so it isn't cracked in a couple of hours. Also, don't use SafeDisc because it sucks as a protection. Use SecuROM or Star-Force instead.

what is a signature?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 00:55
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Microsoft XP protection is flawed - and in a BIG way, i should know its what i started the base of AuthentiCode on - their mistake and the numerous hacking tools i've found have enabled me to make it so airtight, there are very few points of entry to find out how the code is done and several failsafes after that to sort it out. oh yeah and its hyper expensive

also on the note of EasyCD 5, not only do i use it but alot of people i know do as well as Westwood themselves - because we can code in our own support and burn to CD/DvD in native formats as it rewrites the entire Format code, which no other CD Copier is able to - which is why you get such incompatiblilties.
I guess you didn't read the fact that if you want to copy such titles you'd need access to these format code plugins - which oftenly are only installed by the Roxio peeps... think the licence for the XBox one is about $280k for a year, might be a lil more can't remember

i can assure you that they all work with the consoles (even GameCube, but you require a Special Dv Disc which arn't cheap at $60 each for testing purposes and be using a Panasonic Drive to ensure complete compatibility)

i've also used numerous CDR/CDRW/DvD-RAMs over the past 8years and out of all of them, gotta say that Philip actually have the most superior out. Oki perhaps not the cheapest, but also not most expensive and far worth the money. LiteOn Drives in my own experience are extremely unreliable - oftenly quite loud and have a habit of accessing whenever they feel like, plus most don't have a big enough buffer and run into speed problems - i mean 52x drives with less than 1024kb cache can't actually run at full speed because they overwrite the cache and actually then slow down to wait for the computer to catch up

if you're really serious about copying though there is a point-to-point machine from Sony, which is a good $5,000 - but you can copy CD's identically as the core format isn't used, which on Windows/Unix machines the core code is always the machines standard

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Rylex
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 08:26
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> i mean 52x drives with less than 1024kb cache can't
> actually run at full speed because they overwrite the
> cache and actually then slow down to wait for the
> computer to catch up

Raven got a point here: I can only say that IDE-burners are a ... well... difficult story because in my primary PC there's still a Plextor 12x SCSI CD-writer (4MB cache). The IDE-Liteon I own only has 2 MB of cache...
For a 52x writer I really would at least (!!!) suggest a cache of 8 MB.

@Raven - I've read the story about your PC being hacked and nearly destroyed by an attack. I've asked a friend of mine who is a real pro concerning security and Assembler coding and so on. He said that this could only be possible if the attacker knews your system. Even if you program a low-level virus then the attacker must have at least known that there's a DVD-RAM in your PC (and that it is e.g. Primary Slave). It would be too much effort to let the virus scan all your IDE/SCSI-ports. I think there's someone who knows you and your computer system - but who doesn't like you.

Rylex

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Megaman X
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 19:26
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When I wanna make a copy 1:1 of a CD, I use CloneCD. Some games that I could not make copy b4, now I can with newer versions of CloneCD. I just make an Iso of it ( with CloneCD), then I load the iso with a CD/DVD Rom emulator ( let's say Daemon Toolz ) and then I make a copy of it with CloneCD using the fake DVD Rom ( daemon )as the reader...
I made backup copies of Noone Lives Forever 2, Unreal T 2003 and many other new games with copy protection With some plugins u can make copies of PSX and other consoles U just need to know where to get them...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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well although still not much of a clue to who did it, from what i know - the virus or whatever it actually was, was a time delay ... and it wrote an alarm to wake up one of the computers with an IR Network connection.
It then went on to rewrite parts of WinXP to what end exactly i dunno cause i zoned out on the Symtac engineer
however i do know it attempted to do the same with my system, which was running WinMe at the time - kinda ironic really as it was my own system that ended up doing all the damage to itself
The virus just made my system all retarded as it were, bing bang whallop i've got several thousand dollars worth of damage... i'm guessing the virus was suppose to do certian damage as the machines at work on that network loop also feel under the same folly

but the scary thing is that the hacker themself(eves) were in the building to plant either a CD or Disk which the original infection came from or someone on one of the teams is playing crooked
whoever it was would have needed to know what our system setups were!

ho hum, nevermind though damage is done and althought could cry about it unless it'll replace my system , i think i'll just live with it... and of course if i ever find out who did it i'll have a friendly lil chat with them.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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TheCyborg
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 12:15
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Why not use an USB dongle?

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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Kale
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 14:37
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Rylex read earlier post to this thread for haw to get rid of the cd check

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 16:56
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what on earth is a dongle??

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Kale
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 21:45
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Raven, a dongle is a very small piece of hardware that stores a code etc, usually pluged into the back of your machine. Every time the protected piece of software is used it polls the dongle for the hard coded code.

Sadly though they are pretty usless against crackers.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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EdzUp
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Posted: 9th Nov 2002 11:31
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IMHO any CD/Dongle protection would just cause a bone of contention for the legitimate users, the main problem here is no amount of protection will stop a hacker removing it.

If you add a dongle then they will just locate the code that looks for it and add a JMP instuction before it to bypass it. People here have already posted a 'fix' for the CD check how long will it be before cracked EXE's appear to bypass that check altogether.

Protection only harms the legit users, maybe DB Ltd could issue a ID number to users (which are kept at DB Ltd ) this number has to be used to download patches etc. Seeing as you have to be online to download patches, post on forum etc then I dont see a problem with it.

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