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3 Dimensional Chat / Truespace is confusing me.

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Clbembry
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Posted: 26th May 2009 03:45
So now that TrueSpace is free I thought I might give it a try. I'm coming from Blender, and TrueSpace is so much different. I have no clue how to do anything in this 3D modeler, and when I google some tutorials I get nothing but broken links and random gibberish!

Could someone point me in the right direction please!
KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2009 05:58 Edited at: 26th May 2009 06:10
Venge
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Posted: 26th May 2009 06:02
@KeithC: Chrome is giving me malware warnings concerning blackdracogames.com, as it did with Strelok on another thread. Thought you should know.


Black procession through the narrow aisles/Another's gone for all to see
Near the site for one who lost his trials/Sleeping 'neath the ground is me
KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2009 06:06 Edited at: 26th May 2009 06:10
Yep; it's being taken care of. I had a malware attack on our site. The offending files have been removed off of my FTP; you will continue to get the warnings until I resubmit the site to Google.

Thanks for the heads up though.

In fact; I've removed my sig for now....does it still give you the warning?
Little Bill
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Posted: 27th May 2009 00:15
Yes. Probably because your avatar is hosted on your site

Aaagreen
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Posted: 27th May 2009 00:18
Keith: Sad to hear about your site. It was a good website too. Is it really gone forever like those emails suggested?

Clbembry: Read up on some tutorials. If some confuse you, read others until you feel you can get the hang of the software. If both fail, just experiment for a while and it should grow on you.

KeithC
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Posted: 27th May 2009 06:26
Quote: "Yes. Probably because your avatar is hosted on your site"

I'll re-upload it later then....until that time, I'll use the first Avatar I had when coming to this place!

Quote: "Keith: Sad to hear about your site. It was a good website too. Is it really gone forever like those emails suggested?
"

The community is the only thing that will be dissolved; the site itself will remain (although with a fresh install) mostly the same. After I re-upload the site, I'll submit it back to Google again, so I can get it off the naughty list.

-Keith
JLMoondog
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Posted: 27th May 2009 09:53
Clbembry:
Truespace actually comes with an extensive manual. Just go to the Help menu to load it up. If for some reason you were unable to download the manual with the program, I can send it to you. 50.8mb installer though. I also have the complete video tutorials with my original 6.6 video set. I wonder if I'm allowed to post those. Considering they became available for free after version 7 came out, I don't see why not. I'll check the legality of it before I do anything.

It might be a good idea to create a Truespace user site and upload everything Microsoft took down. Maybe even host a forum and tutorial/gallery section. It's sad that this had to happen. Though I wonder if Microsoft would let anyone do that. (I'll need to compose an email about this) It would be cool if they made it open source. I'd love to chop it up and add some things

Truespace has a very easy layout imo. A elava lot better then Blender.

Kuuhaku Kyuushuu 2...revenge is so much sweeter the second time!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=151107&b=8&p=0
Clbembry
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Posted: 27th May 2009 14:20
Ok thanks.
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 28th May 2009 09:01
Enjoy truespace while you can. http://www.caligari.com/News/news_200905/LetterFromTheFounder.html

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 05/06/09)
lazerus
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Posted: 28th May 2009 13:26
Mayby some one can upload the free version here, when they get sometime?

Itll be great for modelers who are just starting out, + itll be a constant support to keep the program alive, and it not to be forever lost in the masses of microsoft.

my thoughts on it anyway, though i don know the installer size, is it large? if so external upload such as media fire, rapidshare could be used,
my two pence lol


Freedom has always had a price... Most will never know it, Some will pay your dept,
KeithC
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Posted: 28th May 2009 15:19
It would be illegal to upload TrueSpace; Caligari has said as much. Not to mention Microsoft coming down like a hammer.
JLMoondog
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Posted: 28th May 2009 15:36
I emailed Microsoft the other day about permission to upload the 'free' files and I got a seize and desist order as a reply...I haven't even done anything...

This could also mean that they plan on creating and selling a new version in the future? I don't see a reason why they wouldn't allow people to keep their program alive unless it's for this reason.

I'm hoping if they do, they allow an upgrade considering I dished out the cash for both Gamespace and Truespace 6.

NickH
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Posted: 28th May 2009 20:04
Doesn't look like Microsoft has done Truespace much good then. I'm sure they have more than enough money to keep it going, but that business. I think Windows 7 is probably higher on their priority list!
Alucard94
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Posted: 29th May 2009 22:49
Sort of saw this coming, too shame. It's a very good software and it should certainly get treated as such.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Herakles
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Posted: 30th May 2009 04:07
If Microsoft is just going to give up on it, then there's no reason for them not to release the source code and allow some sort of community trueSpace site. It seems inconsiderate for them to just buy it and then throw it away. But hey, since when has Microsoft been considerate?

And if they're going to make and sell a new version in the future, they could at least say something about it instead of leaving everyone thinking that it's dead.

Hold on a second... a Microsoft version of trueSpace! It makes me shudder to think how they'd destroy it, if their operating systems are any measure of their software creation skills...

Quote: "I'm coming from Blender, and TrueSpace is so much different."


Stick with it, and you'll see that trueSpace's modelling tools are much easier to use, and are much more powerful. Just remember that you'll have to customize the interface, 'cause it's kind of a pain to click through all of the menus and submenus of icons the way it is out of the box.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 30th May 2009 09:37
Quote: "Hold on a second... a Microsoft version of trueSpace! It makes me shudder to think how they'd destroy it, if their operating systems are any measure of their software creation skills..."


And they'll make their own filetype and have it be incompatible with all other industry filetypes.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 05/06/09)
JLMoondog
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Posted: 30th May 2009 09:54
lazerus
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Posted: 30th May 2009 21:36 Edited at: 7th Jun 2009 03:18
[ModEdit] Please don't swear, even if some of the letters are starred out [/ModEdit]

Simples, I bet bill gates treats the world like monopoly, though after you own everthing its boring,, i bet hes bored to hell already,

all the money in the world but he couldnt get a women to touch him with a 10ft pole.

lol


Freedom has always had a price... Most will never know it, Some will pay your dept,
Clbembry
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Posted: 31st May 2009 10:22
Are there any good non video tutorials?
JLMoondog
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Posted: 31st May 2009 19:04 Edited at: 31st May 2009 19:05
Alucard94
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Posted: 31st May 2009 19:13
And he's a very generous man, and he retired a while back.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Clbembry
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 03:22
I can't figure out how to use a reference image, and the one in the video tutorial doesn't work for me.
Herakles
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 04:14 Edited at: 1st Jun 2009 04:14
Go to the material editor in the "Model" side. You just right click on the texture part and browse for the image you want. Then, apply the material to a plane primitive and you should be all set.

There's a way to do it on the "Workspace" side, but it's overly complex and unnecessary.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
Clbembry
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 04:37
What is the difference between Workspace and Model?
JLMoondog
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 04:59
Workspace gives you a nice real time rendering of your model in a Direct X environment. I suggest modeling in Model mode though, on top of that, go to the truespace 6 tab for a better menu layout, and it's a lot easier.

Clbembry
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 05:02 Edited at: 1st Jun 2009 06:00
Thankyou very much!

Edit: Ok I tried everything to try and use reference images, but I can't get it and it's really pissing me off. I think I'll just stick with Blender.
KeithC
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 07:17
It couldn't be easier, and is the same in pretty much any other program...including Blender. Here's a tut showing you how to set up the plane for a mouse object:

http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/Newillustration.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older

-Keith
Clbembry
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 14:05
In Blender all you have to do is click "View background image" Load it and you're all set to go. But thanks a lot, I'll take a look at that tutorial.
lazerus
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 14:27
woops, watch way to many sketch shows....

though he is the monopoly man since when he sleeps, wakes up he has another 2-4million in his bank account, which btw runs on its on sever in National sercurity...

lol what would you do with alll that money? i know ill burn it instead of fossil fuels!!!!!!

yay and its green
Oh and can you tell him to call off his ninjas, i really hate his ninjas...

sorry for off-topic-ness
cheers -cb


Freedom has always had a price... Most will never know it, Some will pay your dept,
Herakles
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 02:14 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 02:18
Actually, once you get the hang of it, the Workspace side is easier to use than the Model side (particularly the modelling tools). I would know, I've been using trueSpace since before it went free. Workspace is the new version, but Model is the old version. The only reason why there's a Model side at all is because a great deal of features (such as NURBS modelling) have not been carried into the Workspace side.

And enough of this anti Bill Gates stuff. Bill Gates and Microsoft are two seperate entities now, so leave the poor guy alone. I mean poor as a figure of speech, not as a measure of his wealth.

EDIT: Although it is... curious... that once he's not working on the OS anymore, Microsoft comes out with a beta that alot of people say is actually decent. Very curious indeed...

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
Clbembry
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 02:39
If development on Truspace is over, what would be the point in learning it, if in some time it will be obsolete to the other modelers?
Herakles
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 03:02
Because, if it fits your workflow, no modeller will ever be "obsolete". I've still got trueSpace 3.2, which was made in the 90s, installed on my computer, and it can still make .X models that are fully loadable in the latest version of DBPro. When it comes right down to it, no modeller can become obsolete if it fits your modelling style. The thing with trueSpace is that it's very customizable, so it can fit a very broad array of modelling styles.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
Clbembry
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 03:43 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 05:43
Oh ok thanks. The transition from Blender is very hard for me, and I'm pondering whether to full out switch, or just stick with Blender.

EDIT: I checked out the tutorial that you posted Keith, but the video doesn't work I've been trying to get a dang reference image for 3 days now. I've tried what seems to be like everything. Why do they make things so hard!

Anyone know how to extrude edges of a plane? I tried dynamic sweep but it doesn't do anything.
tatts
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 17:13 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 17:18
Quote: "I suggest modeling in Model mode though"


Really you should learn both sides, Once you learn how to use the workspace side, chances are you will not touch the model side anymore. Workspace is far more powerful and stable than model side is.

Quote: "Ok I tried everything to try and use reference images"

What is it are you actually having a problem with? getting the reference image to a plain? If so than the easiest way to do this with workspace, Click on the library tab and in the Materials/textures panel, grab the pinkish purple TS texture and drag it over to your object to apply it. from there Lclick on the material editor to bring up the attributes on the right side of your screen. You should see a material ball and below that you should see the texture that is applied to the plain. double Lclick on that little texture and it will bring up another dialog that you can import and drag textures from. pick the texture or import the texture that you would like to use and drag it over to the texture icon that you see just below the material ball to change the texture in the icon. from there, next to the material ball you should see a funnel, paintbrush and a couple other icons. Just click on the funnel icon the replace the texture that is already loaded to the plain. Use the paint brush to apply textures to only selected faces. I hope this helps, if not just ask for more help and i'll grab up screen shots to help better explain.

And I have to agree with Hercules, Ts still has a long way to go before it comes to be of no use. And just because they have stopped updating it does'nt mean it is the end. Remember, people can still create plugins for it.

(Edit) Unfortunately Ts does not support extruding along edges.
Clbembry
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2009 00:14
How would I go about modeling something like a face then without starting with a cube?
KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2009 00:17
Quote: "http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/NewCharacterModeling.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older"

Seriously; check out all the videos they have to offer:

http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/NewCharacterModeling.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older

-Keith
Clbembry
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2009 05:29
I'm not a box modeler, at least not when it comes to heads. But I think I'll be fine now that I know how to set up a reference image. I'll just toy around in TrueSpace for a bit and see if I like it.

Thank you everyone for all the help!
KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2009 13:31
No problem....good luck!
JimB
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Posted: 4th Jun 2009 23:09 Edited at: 5th Jun 2009 18:45
LOL
Herakles
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 03:26
Quote: "I'm pondering whether to full out switch, or just stick with Blender."


You can use both, like me. There are times when I need a feature that's in Blender but not trueSpace, and there are times when I need a feature that's in trueSpace but not Blender. You can export using the .X file format in the Model side and load it into Blender, and then you can use Blender's .X export and load it into the Model side. Don't use the Workspace side's .X format, because Blender can't load it. The .X of Workspace is only good for your final export into DBPro (assuming that's what you use), trueSpace can't even load it (it only exports it)

Quote: "How would I go about modeling something like a face then without starting with a cube? "


Currently, I'm attempting to make my first character model. I have no experience doing such a thing, so it's really trial and error for me. I find that it's best to model heads from cubes. I've tried with spheres and cylinders as well, but I haven't been able to get them to look right.

Quote: "I'll just toy around in TrueSpace for a bit and see if I like it."


That's always the best way to do it. Even if you don't like it at first, go back to it. I hated the new "Workspace" thing at first, because it's harder to use. But, after I gave it a few weeks, I went back to it, learned how to customize the layout, and it fit my modelling style like a glove. Stick with it, adapt it to your own needs, and you'll like it just fine.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
JLMoondog
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 15:01 Edited at: 5th Jun 2009 15:03
You can go about several methods to create a face. One way is to use a cube or sphere and slowly add detail through cutting polies and welding verts.

Another way is to start with a plain object, and extrude the edges and then position them to create a face.

Another way is using splines. You can create the basic face topology using splines, then convert it to an editable poly. Then it's a matter of positioning the verts in your z axis to the right depth.

Last way is to use nurbs. You create each section of the face going from either the x plain or the z plain. Then you can convert that to an editable poly and further add detail from there.

Most of these modeling techniques are available in all the 3d packages. Though saying that you don't want to build a face using a cube is very closed minded. After trying the other techniques you may come to the realization that starting with a primitive is more suited to you.

I used to create a spline cage then position the points in the z axis to create a face. Then build a poly object from that. But after some experimenting, I found it's just as easy to create a face using a primitive 8 sided sphere.

Anyway good luck, and keep on modeling.

Clbembry
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 17:39
Well I guess I shouldn't just say "Box model bad, me hate box model" It's just that I found modeling with a plane and extruding the edges to be more enjoyable. But you're right, I shouldn't be closed minded. Thanks for the advice.
tatts
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 19:53 Edited at: 5th Jun 2009 20:01
Quote: "(Edit) Unfortunately Ts does not support extruding along edges."


Lmao. I'm correcting myself. TS 7.6 does in fact support extruding along edges, this can be done in the workspace side of truespace. You would use the dynamic extrude function for this.

Quote: ""I'm pondering whether to full out switch, or just stick with Blender.""

For me it is somewhat the other way around right now, I am back to learning Blender. Mainly because I am trying to learn how to make my own mods for Oblivion and blender and 3ds max are the only two programs that have importers and exporters that will work with oblivion. But for me, I am still doing my modeling in truespace, I am just going to use Blender for animation if I can't get a working export from truespace to blender not sure yet. and I'm using blender for the importing and exporting.
Clbembry
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 21:00
I think I might give Silo a try instead.
Herakles
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Posted: 5th Jun 2009 21:34 Edited at: 5th Jun 2009 21:35
Quote: "I am trying to learn how to make my own mods for Oblivion"


So I'm not the only one on this forum wasting time on TES Construction set, when I could actually be working on a game of my own! I didn't know that you could only use Blender or 3DS Max to export models into Oblivion, thanks for the heads up!

Quote: "I think I might give Silo a try instead."


I've never heard of Silo before. Although I haven't been Googling modellers in a while, so maybe I'll check it out.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
tatts
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Posted: 6th Jun 2009 21:16
@Herakles
If you go here you will find all the info you need for modding for Oblivion.
http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Main_Page

You could virtually create an entirely new game with all the info here. As far as it being a waste of time. NO way, I look at it like this,,,,With the little that I learned about modding oblivion, Taught me a lot of stuff that I did'nt know how to do before and has already given me a much better grasp of how I should be doing things in my own games. Personally, I look at this as the perfect learning tool, Because it involves everything from modeling and importing, texturing, shaders, scripting and everything else that has to do with making a game. Except with this your having fun doing it as you get to test everything in game and what not. And one of the best things about it is, is that you can see for yourself how a company like Bethesda create all the objects, you can view the wire frames, even with the OBMM. As I said, I think it is a great learning tool.

I personally will probably keep playing with this for a long while, It is actually doing me some good by giving me the motivation to learn Blender. Not that I care for Blender very much, but I will do what I can to get my models in the game.
Herakles
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 03:57
> tatts

I suppose that's all true, unless your doing what I'm doing. My ultimate goal is to make quest mods, but right now I'm just fooling with races' stats.

Quote: "Not that I care for Blender very much"


Nor do I. But Blender has some features that trueSpace does not, so it's better to know how to use both. Personally, I prefer trueSpace's interface and most of it's features, but I still use Blender every now and then.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
tatts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 21:56
@Herakles

I would like to learn to make quests as well, but for now I am sticking with the basics. I would like to learn to bring my own models into the program first then I will be moving onto the quest tutorials. As of right now I already know how to change rooms and set up the teleports, add houses and set up the interiors for the houses, change the terrain to fit the houses. As far as modelling goes, I will probably continue to use Truespace and just use blender for the animations, and setup. And of course for the exporting as well.

Sorry for getting off topic clbembry. i'm done now
Clbembry
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 22:29
Lol no problem. I learned something new from that discussion. Didn't know you could use Blender for Oblivion.

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