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3 Dimensional Chat / new 3d card :)

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Jurgen
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 15:33
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Hi I want to buy a new 3d card, doesn't have to be up to date, just need to play games like quake arena or tonyhawk3 and stuff on the network, my other pc has a geforce3ti (don't know if this makes any difference ??!! probably not )

here are the models I'm thinking of:

---------------------------------------------------------------
xfx geforce4 mx440se 64mb ddr tv-out pci = 69 Euros

xfx geforce fx5200 128mb tv dvi agp8x = 85 Euros

connect 3d ati radeon 9200 128mb ddr ag = 85 Euros

connect 3d ati radeon 7500 64mb ddr agp = 55 Euros
---------------------------------------------------------------

give each one a point on a 1 to 10 scale, and tell what are the good points and the bad ones. I'm not a complete n00b but I can use some advice... so, please?? Thanks in adavance, Jurgen
"Only when all the seas are poisened, only when all the trees have been cut only when all the animals are killed, people will understand that money can't be eaten..."
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 16:02
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Geforce 4 MX Direct X slow old graphics card wich is not good for games, i don't care what anyone says if your gonna use ms word, internet and some really old games it is fine but for newer ones stay well away. 4/10

Geforce FX 5200 again pretty slow but has full DX9 support and is a bit faster than the Geforce 4 MX but still not fast enough for games unless you wanna play in low resolution, and fairly low detail. 6/10

Radeon 9200, Between the 9200 and the FX 5200 there are no major differences really except the 9200 has better 4X AA quality and the FX is slightly faster. 5/10

Radeon 7500, All i can say is stay away it is a DX 7 card or 7.1 whatever don't even bother they are just very slow. 3/10

If you really wan't to buy one of theese cards go with the 5200 as it is DX 9 and the fastest card here but i reccomend if your on a budget get a cheap Geforce 4 TI 4200 they are quite cheap now only DX 8.1 but they are faster than all theese cards i have one my self although i'm gonna update soon to a FX 5900 in the ext few months!

I used to build machines with all theese cards until recently when i left my job so just to let you kow i do know what i'm on about!

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UnderLord
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 19:13
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dude the g force 4 mx isent slow well maybe on pci it is but my friend got one agp think 8x and he turned off his vertical sync and gets the useual 100fps on counter-strike on high-res don't know what your talkin bout i'd give the geforce 4 mmx 440 a 6/10

http://www.freewebs.com/ingamers
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zircher
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 20:15
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My MX has been giving me non-stop problems. If I could afford to get rid of it, I'd snap it in half and trash it. Your mileage may vary.
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TAZ
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 21:18
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Well counter strike is an old game not it's not really suprising you get a high frame rate on it, the mx is not good at all for modern games, or for developing in dbp IMHO.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 16th Aug 2003 21:37
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well for development you'd probably want somthing better but i'v heard nothing bad about the MX yet...but i think myself i'd go with a ATI radeon 9000 or somthing like that its only around 100$USD or less

http://www.freewebs.com/ingamers
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Wik
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 01:52 Edited at: 17th Aug 2003 01:52
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I have the Radeon 9000 (I think Pro)

It's a Really nice card...I got it for $130, but I don't know what this is in Euros...


-Matt

The rock has rolled!
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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 04:35
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man the radeon 9000 is like 100USD now =) maybe less

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Xander
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 06:56
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I just bought my Geforce4 MX440se 64 MB PCI with TV out at Tiger Direct for 35$, with a mail in rebate. It works awesome, but is not the newest card. It runs Need for Speed 6 fast with the detail levels set about midway. If you want something faster, get the fx5200, it will last longer with the DX9 support. Radeon 7500 is too old, the 9200 is a nice card, but could be more expensive. Compare the specs on them, like the polygons per second and the texel fill rates.

Good Luck

Xander
Bolt of Bolt Software Productions
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Jurgen
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 14:47
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wow ty you very much... and if you could choose a card of you likings, let's say for 100 Euros (110 dollars), what would you buy?

keep in mind that this is only a secondairy PC, only ment for network games, cs can be played with a normal monitor card for 50 fps so I don't tell me anything about that .

I would really like to play tony hawk and the games I make with dbro... (is that enough info )

"Only when all the seas are poisened, only when all the trees have been cut only when all the animals are killed, people will understand that money can't be eaten..."
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Dreamora
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 21:53 Edited at: 18th Aug 2003 01:49
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Since you didn't say you want to play overnext generation (full DX9 support) games, i think the best chose would be a GF4 TI 4400+. They are about the same price but have more power than any of the cards you listed.

GF4 MX / Radeon 7500: Due to lack of shaders and high price for nothing: 1/10
*GF4 MX is just a modified GF2 for those who don't know*

FX 5200: never faster than GF4, no idea why it's still sold: 3/10

Radeon 920: Once again a cheap production. not nearly the power which made the 9XXX series that famous. Bad bandwith and number of render/shader-pipelines: 4/10

GeForce4 4400+: as mentioned better then all above and about the same price range, just leaks some of the DX9 features. Fully supports the shaders.

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sgt_slamy
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 00:53
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DONT GET THE GEFORCE 4 MX! I blew a 100 bucks on it a while ago and it totaly screwed up my comp. like zercher, if i could afford it i would snap it in half and then boil those halfs in pits of acid and then send them through meat grinders and paper shredders and then i would feed them to my dog and then i would incinerate them....

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zircher
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 10:05
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What mother board and bios do you have?

I have a shuttle AK11 series and found a bios upgrade this weekend that has made a significant difference is the amount of Nvidia driver crashes that I have had. When I did the AK11SR3W flash, I went from a dozen system crashes a day to zero.

I found the bios update in the discontinued section of the Shuttle.com site. Hope that info helps.
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TAZ
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Spelljammer
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 12:36
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I pretty much agree with Dreamflower and Icfcfan. The fx 5200 does suck unless it's the ultra. and avoid anything from nvidia that has mx in it. Look for Ti or ultra or FX 5600 or better if your gonna go with nvidia. ATI 9500 or better from radeon.

Here's an example. I had a 1 Ghz computer identical to a friends except he had 1.4Ghz. I had a geforce 2Ti and he had the geforce 2mx440. (we had same memory and operating system too, even the same motherboard) I made a demo that ran 120 fps on my machine and on his it ran about 70fps or so. I even updated his drivers but didn't help. Then you can read online reviews and the mx series for geforce4 is not even in the same ball park as the 4 Ti series.

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Fallen
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 15:33
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If I was you I would give some more money for a card (even if I still had to wait more time)and buy a radeon 9700 gold or best (radeon 9800 pro?? ) you can buy the 9700 gold for around 250€ I know.. is way to more expensive.. but cards less powerfull than this will become obsolete in no time...

The Fallen
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the_winch
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Posted: 21st Aug 2003 04:45 Edited at: 21st Aug 2003 21:38
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For the price the geforce fx5200 128mb is a fairly decent budget card
For a resonably slow computer you are better off with a cheap card. Faster ones will be affected by bottlenecks and the extra speed and money it cost to buy it is wasted.

Unfortunatly mine is faulty it locks up all the time, I can't change the display settings with out a lock up and it keeps syncing outside of my monitors accepted rate every third boot

Edit:
Tutns out the card just doesn't like win98
Yet another reason to use get an older card if you have an old comp it saves the posibility of having to upgrate the os.

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AlecM
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 10:47
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If im not mistaken the GeForce 4 MX cards are based on the GeForce 2. They really suck and I dont think they are DX 8.1 compliant. Try and get your hands on a ati radeon 9500pro if your on a budget. Good card for the price.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
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AlecM
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 10:49
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Just for the record AGP 8x doesnt make a damn bit of difference over AGP 4x.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 19:00
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it will when games like doom 3 come out.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 19:50
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Quote: "Just for the record AGP 8x doesnt make a damn bit of difference over AGP 4x."


the difference is commiting to memory times.
It allows your card to perform memory operations 2x faster than AGP4x and 6x faster than AGP2x ... AGP1x is the exact same speed as PCI 2.3

xfx geforce4 mx440se 64mb ddr tv-out pci
- This would be a good card, if it wasn't a PCI version, which makes it a total waste of time. However the SE has basic 1.0 Shader access and has an improved IntelliSample & Transform&Lighting Engine.
(and for those who are saying its a GF2, the GF4mx is a redesign of the GF4 chipset to ommit a few structure details - suchas the Shaders, it is just as fast as its GF4 counterparts pushing polygons)

xfx geforce fx5200 128mb tv dvi agp8x
- Unless you have the hardware to cope with AGP8x that again is a waste of time, especially with an older processor (non P4/AthlonXP) which can't actually handle it. That said it has full access to v1.x & v2.x Shaders (including 1.4 ommited from the GF4 range), as well as access to the basic nv3x (v3.x) Shaders.
DirectX9 Based Card & is the fastest on the list.

connect 3d ati radeon 9200 128mb ddr agp - only basic shader access, and very little in the way of Dx9 support.

connect 3d ati radeon 7500 64mb ddr agp - a total waste of time, as it doesn't even have Transform & Lighting ... you'd be better of getting a GeForce2mx over that card.

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Jurgen
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 11:54 Edited at: 25th Aug 2003 11:55
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so what do you think about this card:

connect 3d ati radeon 9600 128mb ddr agp

I think it's a pretty neat card, and only for 129 Euros (that's like 150 dollars, pretty rough calculated). Now you said that the

xfx geforce fx5200 128mb tv dvi agp8x

was the fastest one on my list, is the radeon (from above) faster or slower, wich one should I buy?? plz reply quickly....

"Only when all the seas are poisened, only when all the trees have been cut only when all the animals are killed, people will understand that money can't be eaten..."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 17:28
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the 9600 is a bit slower and has better Shader support...
not by much though in either respect, however if you have €130 to spend then i'd suggest getting a 5200ti or a 5600.

they're far more worth the cash.

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Preston C
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 19:05
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Raven, I'm getting an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 128 MB for my birthday, is it a good buy or should I get the reciept and get a different card?



Hell Begins September 2nd at 7:30 AM. Yep, schools starting soon.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 21:39
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IMHO...

stay away from anything Nvidia MX - but TI and FX are great!
ATI I have no user experience.

-RUST-
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:09
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As far as I know the ATi Radeon 9200 has no anti-aliasing support.

I use an ATi adeon RV100, which is a 7000 series and I am really in need of something new to give DB a boost, especially pro.

What I wouldnt give for a Radeon 9800 pro!!!

Im unsure about the GeForce chipset, it would be best to find a card that suits YOUR system rather than one that is considered the best. A card could run fine in one system but terrible in another.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Jurgen
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 12:07
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moonshine, I disagree.... what you are saying is that there are (normal) pc's that IF you put such a card in, the card would TOTALLY screw up the system. Yes, when you put an FX in a pentium I, the poor processor would scary itself to death, okay... but a bit of a normal PC can handle a card (not the monitor-card ).

"Only when all the seas are poisened, only when all the trees have been cut only when all the animals are killed, people will understand that money can't be eaten..."
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