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3 Dimensional Chat / firsth model made in Wings3d

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arras
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 19:42
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I finaly downloaded Wings3D to gave it a look...and I found out that its actualy great and wery complex free 3D modeling program. It takes some time to get more familiar with controls and interface so I recomend to anybody trying it for the firsth time to search web for tutorials and manual (there are good many to be found there).

Here is my firsth model done in Wings3D
well in fact its just face of woman:



My personal impression is that its better than Milkshape3D considering modeling (you cant animate inside and I was not realy trying skining so I cant speak about that)
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 20:42
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that looks excellent good job!

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 21:17
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Arras .

I must say your explorations demand more and more of my respect.
Your command of form is exceptional in comparision to the others on the board. I'd be happy to critique such a thing, if you'd let me. Keep us posted my good man.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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arras
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 22:18
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Thank ya friends I welcom any constructive critic so dont be so soft with me this model have some parts to improve...

Brent_Seraphim, thank ya for your opinion about my skill, I walue it especialy because its comming from somebody who can make models like your elves are ...wery nice job (and they are textured as oposit to most of mine)

...I wish I would have bit more time to model and code

And where is our Wings propagator Actarus? ...is he still somewere around this forum???
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UnderLord
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 22:35
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that look good better then anything i could ever do =\

http://www.freewebs.com/ingamers
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 01:31
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Well Arras,

I did hint at a critique in my last post. For the past week or so, I've modelled a human face to the absolute best of my abilities. After comparing the aspects of it's existence to your own I've found that I have absolutely no right to critique your model. I wouldn't help you at all in the modelling aspect by offering an inferior opinion.(now with textuing, I could give you the 'info )

Cheers.
I'm humbled.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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WindTech
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 09:55
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Holy f*ck...Brent is humbled, good job mate!

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 15:55
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Good modeling

The head is a bit ovalish but a few vertex moves in the cheek area should do it,every human has flat,sometimes inward,temples.

The under chin area could use little lift unless the woman is a bit fat.

I reckon it would be hard to improve this model without adding any geometry as it's fine already.

Just one question though,why did you triangulate the face??

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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arras
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 16:53
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Brent Seraphim >>> so post your model, that we can critique it a bit I am actualy doing a low poly model of a ship capitan, its nearly finished and soon I will texture it so I may ask you some questions...

WindTech >>>well beleive me brother, I did not do it with humbling of Brent Seraphim in mind

actarus >>> yes it is bit ovalish...you are right, I did not pay much atantion to it because I was concentrating on face...

-under chin area is OK (acording to reference picture) that woman is in fact just a girl and its giving may be wrong impresion because neck is missing.

-well I triangulated it in places where I wanted to have shadows properly rendered on face. It make diference -try it yourself and you see that you can influence it like this.

And yes, it would need bit more detail on nose so may be I'll do it if I'll have time...
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 17:45 Edited at: 27th Aug 2003 17:49
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--well I triangulated it in places where I wanted to have shadows properly rendered on face. It make diference -try it yourself and you see that you can influence it like this

Well I don't mean to get into an argument,especially that I know I'm right lol,but it's the OTHER way around...

Smooth-Shading is calculated using similar algorithms as the Catmull-Clark used in SDS modeling and it is QUADS that can take full advantage of the rendering output since they are non-planar,meaning you will be able to define 3 dimensions using it's vertice as for the triangle,no matter how you move it's vertice,it will always face the same plane,for rendering purposes...

Actually triangulating a mesh doesn't change the shading's properties at all,it's the edgeflow that does it.

I also would like to quote someone from CGtalk since it's a topic that's come out as well yesterday

Modelling using quads is intuitive and efficient because u can use edgeloops to create the flow of muscles and bones on organic objects. Tris and Ngons do not have an organic flow due to their geometric nature. When an Art director sees a good use of edgeloops, he will recognize that u have a good understanding of polygon modelling.

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 18:06
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Is wing better at modelling than milkshape? In what way?

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 18:32
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LMAO I'm keeping away from that kinda topic...

So a short answer is,modeling-wise,Wings is better but Milkshape gets the credit for animations and file formats it supports.


BTW:Animations are not implemented in Wings as it's a pure modeler and will try to remain that way as well.

If you want to check out another cheap but not free modeling software,check out Silo...

It has the manipulators/widgets and Poly by poly methods every new wings user wants but will never get lol

A fully functionnal(saves as well)Demo is available(40 uses tho)

http://www.nevercenter.com



Yet another software,after all top dogs,that's toolset is inspired of mirai/wings3d.

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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arras
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 19:28 Edited at: 27th Aug 2003 19:32
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actarus>>> you are right in what you write at last in theory, but here is practical example:


left heads are in quads only, left ones are triangulated. Uper are low poly, bottom are smooted...

so is there diference or not (it was rendered in Wings3D)

M00NSHiNE>>> as I wrote on top of this thread ...yes it is better considering modeling (I was modeling in Milkshape so I can compare)
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 19:47
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Take look at thetriangulated Smoothed one...

The Cheek-Eye area is pinched,the nose bridge catches specular highlight from many angles as if there was a hole or circular crease in there.

This is only a part of the problem,if you come to actually animate the low polygon meshe's face,which I personally plan to implement in my games,the triangles will visually stand out of the animated geometry at certain stages of deformation.

Actually,if the upper-left one is all quad,meaning you used Dissolve Edges on specific Edge Rings/Edgeloops to create a quaded topolgy,it will be the most suitable/useable head of all those in the picture.

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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arras
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 20:08
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thats right actarus, I just explained why I was triangulating it. I did not say its best way to make model...and there are places where triangles looks better at the triangulated ones, just look at lips...

Bye the way up to my knoweledge .x format uses only triangulated meshes ...am I wrong?
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 20:09 Edited at: 27th Aug 2003 20:10
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Yeah but don't use that format,like I said in an other thread earlier,use Obj or 3ds when jumping from a software to another and before the final epxort to .X

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arras
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 22:36
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...thats not making sense...if I triangulate, then I can decide hove triangles will look like ...if not then converter is doing it and then there is risk that it will not choose it the most clever way...
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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 23:27
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-...thats not making sense...if I triangulate, then I can decide hove triangles will look like

??

I don't think you understand edgeloops and quads.


When using Quads and edgeloops,the triangulation occurs in between those quad and if you've place them well,there will be no need ever to Turn Edges.

Have a look at Bay Raitt's Forums and see how quad can help you make better models.

http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/index.php

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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 23:39 Edited at: 27th Aug 2003 23:42
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I've highlighted in red all the edges that didn't need triangulation as they would've remained at the same plane orientations...

http://www.geocities.com/actarusprocyon/whead_arras2.jpg

Drag to the Adress bar.

BTW:I've used Milkshape3d for 4 years so I know how triangles react.....bad

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 23:52
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Windtech: Hehe...I can remember the last time I was 'humbled'.
I'm something of a chess lover..my tally being 116 wins/ 2 losses.
(I'm not joking, I've keep count for 2 years. School is a great place to find victims.)

The first time I lost, I came back the next day, took every piece he had and put him in checkmate with his own favorite pieces. The second time I lost I came back and beat this individual consistently for the next 12 games. He's never won again since.

Such little defeats...nare repeated.


Other then that I have nothing to add, I use LW. Either way, mutual respect for all artist is a must. Besides the way Arras used his quads was near down right sexy! ...ok that was werid...think I'll go read the lw manual instead of watching baywatch...

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 00:08
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-think I'll go read the lw manual instead of watching baywatch

What's on page 112? j/k

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 00:18
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Oh Man..you should see the quads on her...

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 00:27
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-Oh Man..you should see the quads on her

On her Meta-surface?

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WindTech
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 04:05
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Quote: "On her Meta-surface? "

Nono, on her boolean extrusions

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
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arras
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 11:29
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...interesting site actarus ...I should take time to look at it deeply
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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 15:29
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Arras:But of course it's an interesting site,Bay Raitt's is part of WETA whom created Gollum for the Two Towers

A little link for advices on quads by game professional/novice modelers.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum8/HTML/002040.html

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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arras
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:17
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thanks ...these are great links
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actarus
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 15:52
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At your service

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