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Work in Progress / Pincho's Art Gallery DB Classic

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 17:54 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 03:11
Demo Version 3 (New Demo with a Portrait Challenge).. Click link, and Save File....
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pinchopaxton/V3.rar

Hi! I have been working on an art gallery for a few days now. Not too far off completion. It has a glass dome with reflections, and lens flare etc. I would like advice on the flooring. The gallery will have wooden floors, and I want to add reflections to it as part of the texture. I don't know how to use blender, so I'll be stuck to doing it manually with Photoshop, unless someone can give me some advice. Thanks for the help so far.

Here are some pictures.....












Tom J
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 19:22
Looks fancy I've always fancied attempting to do a modern art gallery level in a game, just because it would seem quite freaky.

For the floor you could use a specular map along with the floor texture to make it look shiny and reflective I think. Although I do not know much about them.
Dr Tank
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 19:30
Looks nice. You could try the simple trick of making the floor semi transparent and mirroring the whole building model.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 19:30
Quote: "Looks fancy I've always fancied attempting to do a modern art gallery level in a game, just because it would seem quite freaky.

For the floor you could use a specular map along with the floor texture to make it look shiny and reflective I think. Although I do not know much about them. "


Thanks! Yes a specular map is what I was thinking about, but I think with DB Classic I have to embed it into the texture.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 19:32
Quote: "Looks nice. You could try the simple trick of making the floor semi transparent and mirroring the whole building model."


Nice idea.. but I think that with 100 pictures on the walls my computer would grind to a halt.

Brick Break
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 20:55
The graphics make me want to cry... This is awesome! You have inspired us all! Now, my floor idea:
Just take a really shiny-looking texture and slap it on a really high-poly floor plain. Then, add specular effects and you're done!

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 21:31 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2009 21:36
Quote: "The graphics make me want to cry... This is awesome! You have inspired us all! Now, my floor idea:
Just take a really shiny-looking texture and slap it on a really high-poly floor plain. Then, add specular effects and you're done!"


Is that what you do in Blender? Can Anim8or do that, I use Anim8or most of the time... or Z Brush 3.

Hey I've had an idea I could flip the model over in Anim8or, and take a snapshot of it then layer it in Photoshop over a wooden floor!

BMacZero
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 22:51
You would have to do any shader work in DarkBASIC I would think...assuming this is for a game or some kind of graphical demo?



Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
Brick Break
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2009 23:33
@Pincho- No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Model a reasonably high-poly plain, it doesn't matter where, and UV-map it. Then, take a nice shiny hardwood texture you download off the internet and slap it on the plain. Load the plain into DarkBASIC as a separate object, and use SET OBJECT SPECULAR to take care of the effect.

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 01:11 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 01:14
Quote: "@Pincho- No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Model a reasonably high-poly plain, it doesn't matter where, and UV-map it. Then, take a nice shiny hardwood texture you download off the internet and slap it on the plain. Load the plain into DarkBASIC as a separate object, and use SET OBJECT SPECULAR to take care of the effect."


Oh.. well I'll see if I can do that, but so far I have created this by flipping the model in Anim8or, and texturing wood with the image..



Best thing is I suppose that I have only used 2 poly's.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 01:52
Made the reflections a bit stronger. Still hand made.



Brick Break
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 02:48
It looks great, but doesn't seem to line up perfectly. Try it my way, with actual specular effects. You might be surprised.

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 05:14
Quote: "It looks great, but doesn't seem to line up perfectly. Try it my way, with actual specular effects. You might be surprised. "


Yeah it took a long time to line up. I'll try your way as well.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 14:26
@Brick Break
Set Object Specular is a DBPro command, I think. In DBC I seem to remember it's set object or nothing.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 14:39 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 14:46
Well I tried your way Brick Break, but all I got was lights shining on the floor, but no mirror reflections at all? I think only DBPro does reflections.

It doesn't really matter anyway, because my hand made reflections look very realistic, and 2 poly.

Van B
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 15:00
I think an inverted wall would look pretty nice, with a double layer floor with positive and negative ghosting.

If you imagine the walls extend 3 feet below the floor and fade to dark brown - almost like someone took up all the floorboards and painted anything below the floor level. Then if you take the floor and make that 2 seperate meshes and take the texture and make a negative and positive ghosting version and mix them together. So your floor would be translucent, maybe 60-70%, and the extended floor would show through as it fades to dark brown, or the floors actual colour.

This way you would only need to extend by a few feet, maybe mirror areas with more detail, but the idea is that your not repeating the high res paintings, so it should be quite processor friendly.

Areas that you want to have greater shine, like a window for instance, you could make the recess deeper to allow for taller reflections.

It would probably be best to make the reflection area a seperate object, then disable lighting to give a solid floor colour and gradually fading wall reflections. You'd actually be able to decide how reflective the floor is by how deep you make the extension and how you fade it out.

If you wanted to add some sculptures, say a vase, then you could add the reflection part under it and fade that too, it would stick through the floorboard parts and match the wall reflections perfectly.

Great to see you back on the forums BTW Pincho!


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 16:25 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 16:27
Hi.. thanks! Nice to be back. I have still been using DB most days.
I might have a play around with that Van B. At the moment I am trying to make it work on most computers.

I have added a projection room now.. and you can see a few other of the hand made reflections. Hand made shadow from the projector too.

I will be projecting Art WIP on a screen.



Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 17:11 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 17:12
Quote: "I think an inverted wall would look pretty nice, with a double layer floor with positive and negative ghosting.

If you imagine the walls extend 3 feet below the floor and fade to dark brown - almost like someone took up all the floorboards and painted anything below the floor level. Then if you take the floor and make that 2 seperate meshes and take the texture and make a negative and positive ghosting version and mix them together. So your floor would be translucent, maybe 60-70%, and the extended floor would show through as it fades to dark brown, or the floors actual colour.

This way you would only need to extend by a few feet, maybe mirror areas with more detail, but the idea is that your not repeating the high res paintings, so it should be quite processor friendly.

Areas that you want to have greater shine, like a window for instance, you could make the recess deeper to allow for taller reflections.

It would probably be best to make the reflection area a seperate object, then disable lighting to give a solid floor colour and gradually fading wall reflections. You'd actually be able to decide how reflective the floor is by how deep you make the extension and how you fade it out.

If you wanted to add some sculptures, say a vase, then you could add the reflection part under it and fade that too, it would stick through the floorboard parts and match the wall reflections perfectly."


Ok I am working on this now...

I have 2 floors (Do I need to edit the textures in any way?)
I am making the top one a ghost image, and the bottom one an inverted ghost by using the 1 flag. (How far down do I move the bottom floor?)
Now.. do I flip the gallery in my 3D package, and save it?, or does it save memory to Copy and flip it in Dark Basic?

My picture frames, and blank pictures are part of the gallery model, I just texture limbs to change the pictures, and that is why I was worried about the poly count. I use them on the walls because it fixes a Z depth problem, where objects can disappear if they are not part of the same model.

Van B
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 17:20
I would do that in the modelling package and save it as a seperate model. I think that if you use the same texture you can just fade the floor objects a bit, so the reflection shows through - if you leave the texture as is for now, then you can experiement with the fade values to get a good effect.

Remember that you'll need a bottom on that inverted version too, it could just be a flat plain, but I think you need that bottom limit and the fade to get the best from it. Without the ground plain the floor will always be transparent and would show details through that you might not want, the floor is really there to control the reflection depth.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 18:25 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 18:32
It is nearly working, but I would like to get rid of that sharp change from light to dark. I could edit the building textures so that the building changes to black near the top.. is there a cheat?

Actually I don't think that I have set the floor object flags up properly. Do I need to turn ambient off or something?



Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 19:58
Decided to fade the building texture in the end, which gives me this result!



Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 20:13
I just brightened the texture a bit...



JLMoondog
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 21:01
Very nice effect! Though I swear DBC has a command to give an object a reflective surface....I haven't used DBC in a very long time so I can't be sure.

Brick Break
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 21:29
Wow... Very nice! It's almost a little too shiny, though. Try to make it more subtle, especially around where the ceiling reflects.

@Josh Money- The command is SET OBJECT SPECULAR, although it doesn't actually reflect anything.

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 21:30
Quote: "Very nice effect! Though I swear DBC has a command to give an object a reflective surface....I haven't used DBC in a very long time so I can't be sure."


You probably saw one of the cheat methods.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 21:32 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 21:32
Quote: "Wow... Very nice! It's almost a little too shiny, though. Try to make it more subtle, especially around where the ceiling reflects."


If I do that I just get a black floor, and you can't see the woodwork. I don't know how to fix it.

Brick Break
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 21:56
Blur the texture under the floor, and make the wood floor texture itself brighter so less shows through.

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jul 2009 22:44 Edited at: 24th Jul 2009 22:45
Quote: "Blur the texture under the floor, and make the wood floor texture itself brighter so less shows through."


There isn't a texture under the floor, its the gallery model flipped over. The wood floor is dark ghosted to see through it, and that makes the texture go very dark.

Van B
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Posted: 25th Jul 2009 15:30
Looks cool Pincho, looking forward to exploring it .

You can tell me to shut up if you like, but I think you should make the push onto DBPro. Things like this are not necesserily easier, but you can do more with it, normal maps, shaders... I'm just thinking that some bloom would look incredible, and a normal mapped floor, refracted glass... You could even make normal maps out of the paintings, just subtle ones, then they could look like oil paintings. The major one is alpha transparency though, it does wonders for 2D and 3D media. Check out the shader screenshots on Evolved's site and consider what you could do with your gallery with this sort of stuff:

http://evolveduk.googlepages.com/Shaders.html

Disregard performance concerns, because I use DBPro on a 1.3ghz Dell laptop with a no account, onboard Intel graphics card, and it's pretty damn fast, faster than DBC on any PC.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 25th Jul 2009 18:37 Edited at: 25th Jul 2009 18:37
This is the new Demo of the Virtual Art Gallery (THE NEW VERSION WITH REFLECTIONS) that I have been making. Anyway, it is quite small to download, so is worth a try.

Arrow keys to walk.
Mouse to look around.
Esc to exit.

There are instructions inside the folder.


I will also put sculptures, or other types of 3D work into the gallery.

I hope you like it..:lol:

Demo Version 1.. Click link, and Save File....
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pinchopaxton/Test.rar

Brick Break
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Posted: 27th Jul 2009 03:45
Well, the graphics are to die for, but there are a few things I don't like.
-You need to be able to use WASD to move
-Right now the player moves way too slowly
-The collisions are such that you can press your face against the wall (not good)
-Why do the clouds move only when you walk?
-Lens flare is really glitchy

Other than all that, it's awesome! Guys, you should try it!

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!
Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Jul 2009 06:06
Neat. Awhile back I had started a similar thing in DB, but with a more dynamic approach where the gallery building was built to accomodate however many pictures there were. With different room segments prebuilt, it just connected them together as needed. I never finished the project thought.

[url="http://dbcc.zimnox.com"][/url]
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Jul 2009 06:12 Edited at: 27th Jul 2009 06:17
Well, the graphics are to die for, but there are a few things I don't like.
-You need to be able to use WASD to move
-Right now the player moves way too slowly
-The collisions are such that you can press your face against the wall (not good)
-Why do the clouds move only when you walk?
-Lens flare is really glitchy

I will probably speed the walking up a bit. The clouds are reflections on the glass.

There's a new demo on page 1 with an overhead projector. Try looking into the lens it looks quite realistic!

Brick Break
User Banned
Posted: 27th Jul 2009 07:08
The projector looks awesome, but you didn't fix any of the issues I mentioned. Speed up the walking! Cast a ray from the camera to the sun so you don't get lens flare through walls! Increase the length of the rays cast from the player! Add the WASD keys!

WINNER list:
Latch, Lee Bamber, TDK, TheComet
Thanks for the help!

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