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3 Dimensional Chat / UV Mapping program?

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SJHooks
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 23:56
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I've tried over and over but Blender's UV Mapping is horrible IMO; it deforms the UV Map, and makes everything harder. Is there a program that has proportional UV mapping? I'm fine with simpler models like samurai swords and other simple things, but when it comes to the gun model I've been making, it's complex and UV mapping is hard on it, and with blender's UV mapping I think it's impossible. What I mean is take a look at this picture:
. I UV mapped a simple 8 point cylinder without one of the circular sides, and of course, it became demorfed... Is there any program that can UV map well? I mean you can make seams etc, and UV map the model? Or is there a way to make Blenders acursed UV mapping work for me...
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Azunaki
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 00:05
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lithunwrap(go look it up)

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nackidno
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 00:32
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=154983&b=3

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greenlig
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 01:59
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With Blender's UVmapping, make sure you have applied scale and rotation on your model before you unwrap it. In object mode, press CTRL+A and click apply scale/rotation. This might fix the problem of the screwy faces. As a side note, Blender's UVmapping is very powerful, particularly in the live unwrapping. You can edit the UV map in real time, and watch it all cut apart beautifully. Takes a bit of practice, but it is a good UV editor.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 07:47
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Yeah, sorry I didn't reply sooner, I wasn't at the computer much this day. Anyways Azunaki: I've tried Lithunwrap before, and let's just say it doesn't work for me. Nackidno: I've been there a while ago, I've seen what they have to offer, and I'm concidering it... I think I'd rather go into what's available now compared to what I can buy. It's like getting photoshop first then Gimp (I have both, and honestly I prefer Gimp because it's pretty much the exact same thing except with some things photoshop doesn't have, plus an easier interface [to me anyways]). And Greenlig: what do you mean when you say:
Quote: " make sure you have applied scale and rotation on your model before you unwrap it"
Really? Does it make a difference, as in if you're model is scaled smaller the UV mapping isn't as messy?
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 08:47
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UV Layout - Best program I've used for that yet. Watch the vid tutorials for how to use it. The demo will suffice for most of what you are doing, and you can keep redownloading it.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 08:50 Edited at: 19th Aug 2009 08:55
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Thanks Sid sinister, I'll try it out (EDIT:the demo), and if I like it I might get the hobbyist or professional version, what would you suggest? (EDIT: Checked out some pics, and it looks pretty good so far. I'll download the demo tomorrow).
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 08:55
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I've never come across the need to get more than the demo, but I'm sure some things could be easier if I got the hobbyist or pro version. Honestly, even though it's the best UVW unwrap tool I've used yet, I wouldn't spend money on that crappy GUI it has. Plus, it's a bit buggy for me sometimes on Vista. Not often, but save often if it's taking you a while.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 08:59
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Wait SS, are you saying that the demo lets you save the UV Layouts? And does it even expire (and if it does I'm guessing you can just download it again)? It seems pretty interesting, but I run vista too . I'm sure it won't be much of a problem , I'll try it out tommorow and see what it can do, that is after I check out what greenlig said about the scale/rotation thing about UV mapping in Blender, if it works, then I'm fine I guess, but if not, then I'll check what what you're suggesting has
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SJHooks
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 09:03 Edited at: 19th Aug 2009 09:12
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Sigh, just tried out what you said Greenlig, and it still doesn't do me much good, so I'm going to download Sid Sinister's Suggestion (try saying that three times fast ) And try that out tommorow. EDIT: I was searching up more about UV Layour, and I came across a few licensing pieces of info, so I checked it out and I got a little confused; when you buy the Student, Hobbyist, or Professional, do you really buy the license and the program, and for that matter do the hobbyist and/or professional license(s) ever expire?
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 09:16
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The Demo expires after 30 days and has restricted features. Within that demo you can choose to 'try out' the hobbyist or pro versions by clicking on one of the top two buttons on the demo. DO NOT DO THIS. Trying out those versions disables your save. Just use the regular demo, and you'll be able to unwrap as usual, and save too!

You export an .obj from your 3d program, import it into UV Layout, Unwrap it, then export it as an .obj again. Then import it back into your 3d program, make any adjustments you want, and then render the UV map from there. Get it?

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 16:48
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I really like Ultimate Unwrap 3D.

http://www.unwrap3d.com/u3d/index.aspx

It has all the options that you expect, and that are included in the free version (Lithunwrap) - but it shows what faces or vertexes you have selected on the 3D model, so along with a strong set of UV tools, it is also great visually. One of the things that gets me everytime is knowing exactly what polygons are being edited on the 3D model, especially if doing plain mapping. I just select a polygon on the UV map and it shows on the 3D preview which polygon it is.

Has to be one of the best purchases I made, highly recommended.


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 17:42
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Oh wow, that one looks good too. I'll try that one out later and see if I like it better than UV Layout. It's definitely cheaper.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 19:26
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I don't actually understand where you are going wrong. I will give you some UV Mapping tips..

1/ Make sure that the model is facing an exact rotation of one of the 90% angles.

2/ If there are parts of the model that are behind other parts so that the UV's overlap, detach the hidden faces, and make them into a new limb of the model.

3/ If parts of the model are at a strange angle, detach those parts, rotate them to face 90% angles. make them a separate object. Uv them, and then put them back on your model, and rotate them back to their proper angle. There is usally no need to weld them back on, but you can weld them if you like.

To detach faces in Anim8or, you select the faces that you want to detach, Edit/Detach faces. This makes a new limb, and can be copied as a separate object. This really makes UV mapping easier. For example.. tilted wings on a spaceship can be detached, straightened, Uv mapped, then put back, and rotated back to their original angle. Best to think ahead, and build flat models, then rotate parts after mapping.

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Bongadoo
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 21:00 Edited at: 19th Aug 2009 21:00
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One very good feature in Blender is vertex pinning. Do a simple unwrap, then manipulate a specific section into a shape that makes more sense. Then select all those vertices for that section in the UV window and do alt-p, that will pin those vertices. Then press e and unwrap again, and those vertices will not move, and blender will recalculate around your point. It can prevent you having to use external apps in a lot of situations.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 03:11
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thanks for telling me that, that makes uv mapping a TON easier

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SJHooks
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 04:20
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Sorry I haven't posted recently, I was putting some finishing touches on a model. Anyways, thanks for the advice all. Recently I've been reconsidering Blender's UV mapping capabilities, and I wanted to know if you can skew the uv's; I think that might make a difference, along with being able to scale the UV map on by the x and y axis's can help with the deformations...
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 04:22
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well the scaling you can select the face/island and use s just like an object to scale it

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SJHooks
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 06:43
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Quote: "well the scaling you can select the face/island and use s just like an object to scale it"
I know that, what I'm asking for is if you can skew objects. (and in case someones mentions it, I know that you can scale along the x and y axis's by scaling the UV map and then clicking x/y, just to avoid anyone misunderstanding what I say)
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2009 19:45 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2009 19:50
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That's just the same as skewing parts of your model, and putting them back again later.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 01:18
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I don't understand how you could possible skew a model by scaling it, unless you guys are mentioning the command to make the UVM skew, I'm confused, can someone rephrase what That1SmartGuy said please?
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 01:47
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Guns are really easy to texture, can you just post an image of what problem you are having, because I didn't understand your first post.

You have choices of Box mapping, and planar mapping which are quick, and easy. Unfolding the model manually gets more complicated.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 02:17
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Pincho Paxton, the problem is when I UV Map the model in blender, the UV Map is distorted, like the first post, I UV Mapped a small cylinder with only one of the round faces, yet the image is still distorted. To tell you the truth there are still two accessories that I have to make, (safety and magazine release), but unwrapping should still be the same with or without them, but I'm having problems unwrapping the model as it is already... I thought that the distortion on the UV map could be solved by skewing the model. To skew in blender's 3D view, I know to press ctrl and then s, then it skews the model in 3D view, but the problem is that I need to do it in the UV mapper, and I don't know how to do it...
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 02:23 Edited at: 24th Aug 2009 02:25
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What do you mean by distorted? The UV map matches the picture doesn't it? You create a map, and colour it in Photoshop. I'm still confused.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 02:28 Edited at: 24th Aug 2009 02:29
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Quote: "What do you mean by distorted? The UV map matches the picture doesn't it? "
No no, that's the point, it doesn't. The circular base of the cylinder selected in the 3D view of the is evenly lined up to look as round as it can, while the circle in the UV map is not as round as it can be, it looks skewed (diaganolly upwards) a bit.
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 03:20
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are you sure the cylinder is perfectly round in the model?

because ive never had this problem with unwrapping cylinders b4

also SJHooks, to rephrase, what I was talking about is that you can scale the UV of a face in the same way you scale in the 3d view

select the selection type (vert, face, face island) at the bottom

select the face/island you want to scale

press s and you can now scale the UV in the same way you would scale the actual face

make sense now?

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 03:32
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That1Smart Guy, the cylinder's base is a perfect octagon, and I know about scaling working in UV mapping, just not skewing ^^
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 03:48
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ok I never said anything about skewing, i was talking about scaling the uvs

also if I recall correctly, blender tries to preserve the ANGLES between faces, sometimes throwing off the scaling

I recall seeing a way to change this, but I forget how exactly

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SJHooks
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 03:51
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Quote: "sometimes throwing off the scaling I recall seeing a way to change this"
yay, there's hope!
Quote: "but I forget"
of course... If you ever remember please tell me
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Azunaki
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Posted: 24th Aug 2009 04:39
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is it possible its just the way your seeing it. have you rotated it to the same way it is on the gun....

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SJHooks
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 01:53
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Trust me when I say that the cylinder is a perfect octagon, while the UV map is distorted... It's all in the skewing of the model, but like I said I have no idea how to skew Uv map
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Azunaki
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 07:26
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...rotate.. it should be using the same tool that you use to rotate object(i would think at least) but i don't use blender so.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 07:36
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Azunaki I know what you mean and what you are saying, but rotating doesn't do much good. The shape is still distorted... how about if I just gave you guys a one of the WIP versions of the model, and you can UV map that and tell me if it works right... then if it does maybe someone can tell me how they did it, and I can try it on the most recent version of the model... just a though
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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 11:25 Edited at: 29th Aug 2009 11:26
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Just select the front faces from the octogon, look at the model from the front view, and unwrap it using 'project from bounds'. I can't really tell if you have the entire cylinder selected because it's hidden in the gun, but from the looks of what you have unwrapped, you're missing a seam in there somewhere.


Kravenwolf

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SJHooks
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 17:48 Edited at: 29th Aug 2009 17:49
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The cylinder is a perfect octagon with one of the octagonal faces cut off to save polys, but what you said did bring up a point. Just answer this question and my entire question will be answered: What I did was use the project from bounds option to get an the some the faces proportional, then I pinned them, and then unwrapped the model again without the from bounds option. And, in doing so it gave me this:
Is this what you guys do? Or at least would this be a reasonable course for UV mapping? Oh, and if anyone ever told me this exact thing and I misunderstood, sorry about that
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 09:00
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I feel bad not being able to answer your question about blender. The lack of response is probably due to people not knowing how to fix it or going wtf while looking at this, myself included. I have no idea, but you you should look up UV Mapping tutorials for blender. Blender has an excellent community and is well documented.

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 16:01
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If you pull the cylinder out of the base of the weapon and then take a screenshot, I might be able to see what you're doing wrong. But as Sid already said, I can't tell anything from the current screenshot.


Quote: "how about if I just gave you guys a one of the WIP versions of the model"


Even better. I'm off today, and I'll be modeling my own weapons for most of the day, so if you want to send me your WIP, I'll take a look at it for you.


Kravenwolf

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SJHooks
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 00:49
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Ok, attatched the obj version of the WIP version 4.0 (I'm on version 4.96 at the moment, with 5.0 being the final version) Thanks for all the help in advance - SJHooks

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 07:07
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The model seems to be OK, apart from some of the mormals are inside out. So The faces are facing inwards which will not help with texturing.

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 08:31 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 08:47
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I marked the seams along the outside edges of the top and bottom faces of the cylinder, and then marked one of the edges along its depth. Blender unwraps sets of faces based on where these seams are, though you can manually select groups of faces, and unwrap the groups one at a time as well.

EDIT: From your last screenshot, it looks like you were trying to unwrap the entire cylinder as one group; which is why everything kept coming out mismatched. You have to select the front faces of the cylinder, and unwrap them together. Then the back, and then select the ring of faces that make up the depth of the cylinder, and unwrap those. Then, everything should come out as it did on mine. Good luck with your project.


Kravenwolf

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SJHooks
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 05:32
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Ok, that clears it up. I thought that unwrapping models as groups would work just fine; I didn't about this. So when ever I see deformation in my UV Maps I whouls just try adding more seams in well planned places?
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 23:26
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Yeah, it's like making a cube with paper. Where would you have to cut in order to be able to fold it into a box? You cut it like a cross! Same thing with unwrapping.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 01:27
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So I unwrap everything like a cross? I'm just kidding. I guess my problem in UVMapping is just how much of a UV map I can group in one UV...
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Azunaki
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:21
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that sounds like the problem.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:35
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I guess so ...
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:32 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 03:48
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If by grouping in one UV map you mean fitting all the parts in, scale everything down. If that loses too much resolution, either unwrap it better so you can reuse UV's or use a higher res map.

If by grouping you mean how to unwrap your model in the best way then try to model it so:

A) It's easiest to texture
B) You don't have any wasted space
C) You can reuse parts of the UV (See picture below)
D) You can tell by looking at the UV map which UV shell belongs to what part of your model

This is a prime (and I do mean very fine example) of reusing UV space.



EDIT: The rest of the thread (your brain will love this): http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=53002

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SJHooks
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:50
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Dang SS, that model looks great! You're idea is something that I planned on doing, but the UV mapping would require you to move all the UV's into their one corresponding place, so it's a bit complicated for me... perhaps a little more practice would be good. And I was just planning to use symetry for most of my models, such as the gun. I thought, if I could make the gun symetrical, then half of the texture would be good enough, but as you could see I had problems with the UV mapping.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:09
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Planar mapping is when you texture half of the gun, and the other half you can overlap, but the middle part tends to smear. The smearing doesn't always look too bad however.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 20:34
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What? No it's not.

Planar mapping:



It's when you use a plane to get the projected coordinates of your mesh.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 06:41
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I've heard of it before... (sorry for the late post, I read the post, but was interupted and forgot about the responding). Any tips? And planar mapping wasn't exactly what I had in mind. And you're right, I do love anything that tells me info about stuff in real games
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