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3 Dimensional Chat / Main Character for Eternal Destiny

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John H
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:15 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 00:17
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Well, here it is.

Concept by Arrow
Modelled by WindTech
UV Mapped by DarkCoderUK
Textured by
This Version - Me
Other Versions - Yusuke200013






Deen is a resistance member, who is on a boat when it gets caught in a storm, and he is tossed overboard. He ends up on Colan Island where Eternal Destiny starts.

Heres the model information

Faces - 1385
Vertices - 1045
Distinct Vertices - 808

Texture information

512*512*24
1 Image
Bitmap

C&C Welcome. New shots will be up later when Eric and I discuss more on the textures.

Sorry for the crappy JPGs, remember, this is but only my second texture job

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Current Project: Eternal Destiny
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:55
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cool
he looks like Jee from Big Brother 4



-RUST-
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Critters
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 23:03
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whoa thats nice work RP

http://www.jaxteam.co.uk
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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:26
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Another shot, hes just standing in this one.



We are looking for someone to animate him, if you are interested please catch me on AIM or MSN

AIM - Johnrocs
MSN - [email protected]

Thanks

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Critters
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:30
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great stuff, just one comment, shouldent the legs be a little closer together while standing? Just a thought, depends how you want him to stand really

http://www.jaxteam.co.uk
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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:39
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Actually if I stand up thats just about exactly how I am About shoulder wide.

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Mattman
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:41
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Nice work

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MikeS
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:46
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I think you should make the legs a bit longer, and also put some polygons on that head of his.

Overall it's okay, and I don't know if it would be a good model to put in Eternal Destiny. Just doesn't seem like it lives up to the hype. Hopefully it gets redone, but it should be good enough for now. Just keeep practicing, and things will start shaping up themselves.

Your main problem was using polygons in the wrong places. I can't blame ya on that though, because I have that same problem. The texture will really make up for the lack of polygons, if you know where to spend the polygons in the right places.
(Texturing job was much better than I could do though.)

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:53
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Legs are in proportion with human anatomy, the longer jacket makes them look shorter.

The model was made by Windtech, and all the polys do seem to be in the right place. Maybe this will help you point out problem areas to me so I can fix them....



C&C away people!

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Mattman
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 01:36
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Leg to Foot looks a little weird

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 02:08
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"C&C Welcome"

...Take it or leave it...

Concept:

I'm getting the feeling that this is were the greatest flaw lies.
I'm not smashing Windtechs modelling skills. I'm thinking he modelled this from a pic. It which case I'm sure this model is a faithful render of such.( I know Windtech can model. His own model post always seem to find a way onto my own topics ) The concept lacks depth... This could be from modelling, or (my own choice) weak concept art.

Modelling:

Well Windtech, either you did everything you could to faithfully render this guy from a picture, or you didnt go out of your way to express human form . Case in point.

1.Stand up. Done that? Good.
2.Place your arms in a neutral standing position, arms at your side.
3.It is standard proportion for the hands to rest firmly near the center of the (msp)femir bone.
4.Our man Deen here..might be able to put his hands in his pockets if he's lucky.
5.His Belt rest near the center of his lenght...thats not good.
6.It looks like his pants are stapled together near his knees...you wont get correct walking with a mesh like that!


I do feel that there's too much geometery considering the lack of form. You could probably easily lose 400+ polys.(its basis was quads...LW boys ) The arms have 4 divisions. You can lose 2 of these and not lose a bit of form. The legs are the same. I had to same problem with my first character, however I was able to drop around 800 or so polys.

All in All, All of the above grevainces could be attributed to the orginal concept.


Texturing:

Texturing is the most important part. It gives the only impression of light and form we precieve. I'm not crazy about the texture..at all. The Clothing needs folds, and the texture does not in any place once consider light. And talk to Windtech..unless he told me a fib you can squeeze a few more images maps on our man Deen.


Overview:

Concept: Pitiful. 2/10 (perhaps the main problem area.)

Modelling: 5/10 It seems sorta heavy in polys to lack form. And it's not very human like..at all!. But that could be the result of concept art.

Windtech, you naughty boy, take him back and make him facilitate Lightwave becoming a religion!!!

Texturing: This version. 3/10. Sorry John, you may think I'm full of sh*t, but I'm being honest and objective. The texture is the hot spot. It makes the model. And this texture is Incredibly underdeveloped. Terrible...you got me pumped up..and showed me this. Thats a sin!



Well I "C&Ced" away! Everything was objective and not suguar coated.
If I said "Great Job". I'd be lying my ass off. That comes my belief that something can always be bettered. I had a mental image of the kind of quailty I expected to come from 'Eternal Destiny'..and well..this um..wasn't up to par. At all. But I'm sure this is no where near the finally product..and is more of a concept in making, and that it will change durastically when completed. If so..take my comments to heart. Fix the errors. Texture him..alot better, and you've gotta a pretty mean dude!

BTW..ask a yea shall recieve. Please don't call my opinion unfair because it's no were near the finished product...all I can do is post on what I see..not what hasn't been created yet. I'm fully prepared to be cruxified for answering the call "C&C welcome".

Cheers.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 02:29 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 02:45
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Mattman - thats the wireframe

Brent - FINALLY! Some REAL C&C! Ill really get to work on all that stuff!

Concept Art:

Brent, Ill try and catch you on AIM if you wanna take a peek at it. Mitch said the proportions were way off.

Modelling: Ill try and crunch the polies a bit, and Ill post back up with the new model.

If you took off too many divisions on the arms + legs, you would lose a lot of potential with animations, as DBP doesnt support mesh deformation, and joints depend on polies.

Texture: Myself, I was dissapointed with the texture. I'm EXTREMLY bad at 2D, and Eric doesnt have the time to work on it (he has 1/2 hr a day that he has to work on school work)

If you put more then one texture on an object in DBP, it goes sloooooooooooooooow.

If anyone would help me with this texture, I would be very grateful. Post here.

Ill get to work on that stuff.

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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 02:40
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Brent - question

Should his belt be higher, or lower?

And again, we need someone to help with this texture.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 03:02
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samurai jack gone.. so wrong

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MikeS
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 03:38
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Quote: "Legs are in proportion with human anatomy, the longer jacket makes them look shorter."




Take a good look at that picture.

Quote: "Legs are in proportion with human anatomy, the longer jacket makes them look shorter."


no,no,no.

Quote: "Mitch said the proportions were way off."


Have you edited one of your posts? I could've sworn it said you did this model RPGamer.Maybe that's just me though.


Quote: "I had a mental image of the kind of quailty I expected to come from 'Eternal Destiny'..and well..this um..wasn't up to par."


I agree. Although this may not help you with your model, he looks more like a guy who just got outta a bar after getting in a fight. That may make you angry, but I don't really care. Get a sword and a shield, and put on a wrist band, shorten up the sleeves, and change the face entirely. And the rip in the middle of no where in his pants? You might be better off with something like this http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:dnJpCkQGHXAC:previews2.nvtech.com/01/tf05019(just not as short of course.

Quote: "Leg to Foot looks a little weird"

How the hell does that help? Back up your thoughts, thought you said you were smart.

Now I'm just angry and critiquing everyone

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 04:00
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<--- In his best Frodo style voice to Yellow:

Does it want a fish!?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 04:01
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Bah..oh question...take the lower part of him and scale it til his legs are atleast 25 percent longer then his chest. the Torso and Hisp/legs..should not be of equal length!

Hope that helps.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 04:33
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Yellow - thats not very good C&C....

Brent - thanks for all your HELP, im working on it right now.

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John H
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 04:51 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 04:52
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Arms and legs longer. Any better? Havent touched the texture because I suck too bad to fix it

I also crunched the polys, now here the stats

Faces - 903
Vertices - 763
Distinct Vertices - 549

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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 05:27
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that looks much better IMO

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 05:44
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from what I can see right now who ever is going to rig that guy up is going ot have a hell of a time doing the bit connecting the legs around the groin area, there seems to be only one "edge" between them you want there to bew a few there(basic modeling advice)

sorry to sound so negative, I just had to point that out

can you post a wirefram view of the back too please?

DreamersScars-Toiletfreak-
If you need a animated chara go here... It isn't that great but it'll do as a tester model thingy http://users.tpg.com.au/users/cnkyk8k2/index.html
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Mattman
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 06:01
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Sorry, i was in a rush.

I meant for all the pictures, the transition between feet and legs. I'm not good at modeling, so this might just be me

I also think your guy looks weird. I don't think he fits in with what I have heard of your storyline. But I don't know it all so,...

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Arrow
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 06:19
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I think his torso is to long, and his arms are a bit to short. The best thing to do it get a jacket and a full length mirror, then just study your self to see how it looks.

I'm not the best at proportion, that and for other reason I don't favor using picture rendering. Once you get the model worked out, send me the skin and I'll do something with it, I can never get Lithunwrap to do anything.


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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 07:08
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to me proportion is not important, don't see why you need to make it in proportion, more out of proportion the more cartoony(better), and anyway, people modelling is very hard and tedious for most people, my first person model was a bit off proportion, so ne...

DreamersScars-Toiletfreak-
If you need a animated chara go here... It isn't that great but it'll do as a tester model thingy http://users.tpg.com.au/users/cnkyk8k2/index.html
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Arrow
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 07:25
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But these are esay fix proportion problems, it's not like having to scale anything, just a few stretches here and there. Besides I think RPGamer wants a realist game rather 'cartoony'.


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actarus
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 15:27 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 15:30
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-I had a mental image of the kind of quailty I expected to come from 'Eternal Destiny'..and well..this um..wasn't up to par

My thoughts exactly.

Practice makes perfect but for the love of your game,don't make that the main character.

I'd personally restart it over and get the proportions done right at first,then you can concentrate on the edgeflow and the detailing later and have alot less vertice to move.

*NM,you use milkshape and there's no easy way that you can a get a nice edgeflow using this software

But that's me and you awefully seem to ignore what I say,I gotta learn to stop helping sporadically.

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actarus
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 15:29
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-Deen is a resistance member, who is on a boat when it gets caught in a storm, and he is tossed overboard. He ends up on Colan Island where Eternal Destiny starts.



OMG,I think that occurs in about every RPG I played,you may want to reconsider the main idea...

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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Eric T
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 04:46
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Sorry for my abscense(spelling) but i did somthing called sleep.. and goto school.

I see deens gone under a little construction...(longer legs... make new UV..ect)

RE-construction....no, a little bit of editing.. yes.

arm and leg proportions... welp.. all humans aren't made the same are they, thats why i kinda found it ridiculous to change the arms and legs that much, humans aren't perfect, so why should game charcters be, especially when there in a somewhat realistic game.

as for the rip in the leg...... i'll work on that as soon as i finish this reply.

the eyes..... needs a bit of white, never seen a pupil attached to skin..lol.

nose... i'll add a nostril or 2( your noses have 2 nostrils right?)

The hair.. will be spiky, not goku spiky, more of short... normal spiky, i can't think of an example right away.. but shory and skinny spiky.


--Eric(AKA yusuke200013 as he called me on the top post..)

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.
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WindTech
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 10:04
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Brent, as much as you know I love you too, we already discussed the BS concept art that i had to work with; one of his legs was like 3" longer than the other in the concept (that make sit like 1.25 feet to scale). I stayed true to the concept and thats all there is to it. In terms of the head, I saw, I modelled, I attempted to depict the awkward two dimensional details that didn't show up in anything but the side view from the right. Not the left front or back, just the right. Dont judge my modelling from this please, look at the FF7 stuff for a better representation of sticking to a better style, or check out my higher poly models; Brent I know you've seen some of em. (Btw, get your a$$ back on to AIM )

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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 13:25
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Ouch Windtech, you make it sound like I drew stickmen . I didn't happen to have either graph paper nor draphing software. I had to eyeball the whole thing, plus I lost the first pic before I could start on the side view. This is why I highly disapprove of modeling by use of background pics. Is almost impossible to create more than one pic with identical dementions by hand.


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actarus
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-This is why I highly disapprove of modeling by use of background pics. Is almost impossible to create more than one pic with identical dementions by hand.



but yeah,just make a few light strokes on the paper to guide your drawing and align perfectly all features.


Make a line for,the Tophead,Eyes,UnderNose,Chin,lower-neck,pecs,waist,groin, blah blah....

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WindTech
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 18:31
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Quote: "Make a line for,the Tophead,Eyes,UnderNose,Chin,lower-neck,pecs,waist,groin, blah blah...."

An artist! where were you when i needed concept art ;p

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actarus
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 18:39
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Who says I draw good?

My GF though.

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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 18:49
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Quote: "but yeah,just make a few light strokes on the paper to guide your drawing and align perfectly all features."
Hai, hai, (been watching animes all night, translation: yes yes) I know all that stuff, I took a drafting class in high school, was suppost to computer aid drafting but oh well. In any case I really don't have the suppies for that kinda stuff, I pretty much draw on any hard, even substance I can get my hands on, I don't have much room here. Plus I want to add as much detail as possible, that mean full page picture for each view. Next time I'll try harder, I'll add a few more views of key areas and try t keep things more proportioned.


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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 23:40
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Windtech: I love you to . Nor did I judge you . I said you most likely faithfully modelled what you saw. Which you did. I did make the statement:
"Concept: Pitiful. 2/10 (perhaps the main problem area.)"
No Loss of Face or respect, all you did was your job faithfully.
The other week I took pictures of my face and modelled a 3d object to match the proportions of my head. In the end I said "Damn I'm ugly." Then I looked at the pictures and said 'Thats why" ..I'm ugly there to!!! "
GIGO. Garbage in Garbage out.

Snake:
Believe it or not, all humans do follow a set pattern and proportion. Not everyone confines to it precisely, hence different shapes sizes. In the above images, Deen cannot put his hands in his own pockets because his arms are too short. His legs are roughly if not smaller then his upper torso...thats not right. These things registery in the back of someones head, cancelling out any hope of believability. I'll work up some of my own concept art..just for all of you. You might like it.

Arrow:
Always your best. Nothing less.


Cheers

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WindTech
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 04:08
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Quote: "I'll work up some of my own concept art..just for all of you. You might like it."

let me model it ;p

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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 04:54
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I hate being the scapegaot here, I was not told that the pics I was to draw need to be perfectly proportioned, nor was I told that they were going to be used as backdrops for the model. I thought that since WindTech was abill to model a ton of FFVII models from eye, that my comcept pics would be used as referance. If I knew that they were to be used in this methiod I would have drew them much differantly. Personally I'm curious if he even did uses my pics that much, I'm sure I hade my arms and legs propotioned correctly.

http://mattallread.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/edmaincharacter.jpg

I know that they don't match one another, but consider that I did them two days apart and that I lost the front pic before I started the second. In any case I'll let you deside if my "Pitiful" concept was to blame here.


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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 05:13 Edited at: 28th Aug 2003 05:18
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Hmm...those pics look pretty doable. Very Doable as a matter of fact.

<<Cast a hard glare at Windtech!!, Bows respectfully to Arrow. "forgiveness"

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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 16:01 Edited at: 28th Aug 2003 16:53
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If I knew that they were to be used in this methiod I would have drew them much differantly

Communication is the key to organization


A few tips there,legs,from upper-foot to belt, need to be as tall as the torso,right now they seems longer.

Don's hide the belt with the clothing,the modeler won't know what shape to get in there,or just do it on one side of the character or like you did on the side pic,transparent.

His arms,side pic,are very unproportionnal,they're oval.


http://www.fineart.sk/page026.gif

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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 16:17
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I created a third pic that went into detail on his belt, the faciners on his jacket, and the design on the jacket. I didn't include it becuase I was showing the proportion between the side and front pic. As for the long legs, just my style I guess, I also tent to make the torso a bit short, but in the concept I tuned it down a bit. Anime doesn't really follow human anatomy by the book, but it still looks correct.


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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 16:57 Edited at: 28th Aug 2003 16:58
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errr...ok still I heard that one often,it's anime so it's unproportionnal.

There's unproportionnal and Stylish unproportionnal anime look.





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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:03
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Are you saying I have no style?


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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:10 Edited at: 28th Aug 2003 17:10
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No I'm saying to put some more of it in your drawings...

If you're to say it's an anime unproportionnal look,then do it so.

Don't just make a slightly unproportionned human caught between the will to make it realistic and anime.

And keep open minded,don't think I wanna get on your case.

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:17
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Quote: "And keep open minded"
Likewise, it was joke.

In any case RPGamer said he doesn't want it to look anime-ish, so I guess I was caught betwwen a rock and a hard place. I have never, and probably will never, use bubble, stick, or any other kinda drawing technique that helps keep thing proportioned. I may mess up a bit and make a head to big (easy mistake) but for the most part I think I do pretty well. You're welcome to check out my site (shameless self promotion #010) to see if any of my pic have any 'style'


Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Interested in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
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actarus
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:29
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I've seen your site a few times and although that may sound rude for you,it's nothing to blab about.

Still I don't feel I have the right to criticize your work as you're a still growing young artist,so all I can say is keep it up and keep your pencil busy.

Everyobdy wants to be loved,But no one loves everybody...
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MikeS
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 00:03
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sounds like a lot of excuses to me. Looks like Eternal Destiny is getting no where to me. I hope YOU'RE at the proper point to even be making the main character model, because I think you're just putting a burden on yourselves.


Quote: "Yellow - thats not very good C&C...."


Have you understood anything I've said at all? I'm sick and tired of going through this. Please tell me, and I'll explain every sentence.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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WindTech
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 05:54
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that is -NOT- the concept art i recieved

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WindTech
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 05:58 Edited at: 29th Aug 2003 05:59
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on top of that, THAT is the original model I sent; note the proportions are correct, that and if you want a look at what my skill looks like when the concept isn't f**cked up then look at my FF7, SC/BW, or female anime work. (Not really blaming arrow anymore, i dunno what happened)
[edit]
his upper body was too small, i stayed true.
[/edit]

Live as if to die tomorrow...
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Eric T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 06:06
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Hmmm the model looks a bit different then when i first saw it.. the legs look alot longer then what i first had...i'mm gonan check that.... weird that it looks different to me though..

Working on 4 projects 2 RPG(programming texturing and 3d map), 1 3rd person shooter (Programming), and a special project.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 06:08
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Hmm...Thats amazingly similiar to Arrows art above. He is correctly proportioned as well. Rahter Nice might I add. I'd give him a jaw bone though...other then that it's snazzy. Strange the untextured version is indefinately superior to the textured one...or perhaps thats just the LW modeller adding those curves Hail LIGHTWAVE!

Yes Windtech, we know you can model and that you stayed true. I said this yes . You might have to texture him. (Surface Baker? )

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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