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3 Dimensional Chat / Bone animations

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 16:48
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OK, i cant decide whether to make my game first or third person (id prefer third) but im unsure about the animation possibilities in DBPro. Im using Milkshape & CharacterFX and i dont know how pro handles the bones.

1.Can i move bones in dbpro(e.g. move the upper body with the mouse while the legs stay still)?
2.Say for example i made an amination of a guy standing still and he jerks his head back for a 'shot in the head' anim. In game, if i shoot him in the head, what happens if he's pointing his gun and running, does the anim revert to a standing straight and still while jerking his head back, or does his head jerk back regardless of the other joints?

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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DrReaper
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 20:22
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You will have to animate everything that can happen to the character before you can handle the animations in code. Lets say you have an animation of the character head jerking back after getting hit. These will have keyframes of 1-30 then you have another animation of the character flying backwards and landing on the ground. These have keyframes of 31-61.

In code you find the character was hit in the head. You then play back keyframes 1-30 and when they are done play back keyframes 31-61.

Also you should know that I have read on these forums. That it's hard to play back more than one animation at a time on the same character. I have not played with that yet.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 31st Aug 2003 14:28
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I just installed MAFIA a few days ago - thats the sort of thing I mean.

Where you can point you gun all around using a mouselook system yet still run around pointing wherever you want. Same as Max Payne and GTA3.

Could I not have a bone that bends the whole upper body while still playing animation?

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Mussi
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Posted: 31st Aug 2003 18:02
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I don't think so, you could try to make legs and rest of the body seperate so you can play animation of the legs while running and turn the rest of the body if you move the mouse or somthing.

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 06:00
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You might be able to do something with Memblocks and Mesh deformation, but it would be difficult.


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Dreamora
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 10:45
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or you can just make every bodypart as an own group, then make "perform checklist for limbs" on the model and just turn around the upper part and make the animations for the arm in DBP as code ...
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 12:15
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Thatswhat i was thinking of doing dreamflower, after all i only need to rotate the upper body. I will have to try that, cheers.

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arras
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 15:46
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But that way you cant have your whole model mesh deformed. You can only handle individual body parts like limbs (in this case they will be separate objects)
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Dreamora
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 23:00
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yeah but since DBP doens't really support bone animations there is no other way without starting to play around with memblock whichs isn't that easy to handle in case of mesh deformation.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 23:44
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This is really annoying me - ive been running the DBPro trial for a day now and already i hit a major limitation!!! I thought Pro supported bone animation?! So what do you do in a fps when an enemy is on an upper level shooting at you? They cant point their gun at you, only look in a straight line and shoot towards your 3d coordinate?! Jeez!!! AAArrrgghh!!! Im totally screwed now because i dont understand what a memblock DOES let alone how to code using them. Anyway, thanks for your help dreamflower and arras.

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Dreamora
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 10:10 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2003 10:12
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memblock is just the whole model in a way you can edit it ... but as said, not a very easy way and it isn't fast anyway

bone animation is there, thats not the problem. but the way you want to use it, it isn't animation anymore since it would be a own engine for it's own.

so you will have to write it by yourself (if you are able to do, as a plugin, you would earn good cash, that for sure )
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arras
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 12:21 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2003 12:23
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...you will soon find dozens of such a limits in DB. This thing is full of things you cant do and you have to find a complicated way hove to go acros it and reach what you want.

If you want to be game programer and you want to do games which are at last average then I recomend you to learn some programing language ...DB and DBpro is not for you.

At the other side if you program just for fun and your apps dont have to be top of the industry products, then DB is great thing, which allow you to program without too much knoweledge and even to learn programing basics

For you I recomend to look at Morrowind way of animating objects ...thats something you can do with DBpro ...parts of body are mesh deformed, parts are just limb animated.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 15:34
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Thanks guys, but ive decided to can the idea and do something different. Maybe these issues will be addressed in a future pro update?

I think a resident evil style game or a commandos 2 style strategy would do nicely.

If only we had control of the bones though...

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Arrow
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 17:48
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Why not use the LIMB commands?


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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 20:11
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I nearly smashed my monitor trying to figure out pro's limb commands, but they are moved relative to the objects position, not the limb position so they fly about all over when you rotate them!!!

It did look silly, and besides limbs are very ugly, i wanted to use a single mesh. Its prettier.

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Energizer
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Posted: 4th Sep 2003 02:33
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MoonShine,I had the same problem,
Here is my solution:
At first ,for side rotation I just rotated the entire model
then I made extra frames in my animation for different pitch angles
I made the extra frames only when my Character aims,If it is just standing only the camera pitches.

I hope it helps you.
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 4th Sep 2003 03:06
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Moonshine, what I think you're asking about is called anim blending. Try looking at the quest3d demo to get an idea about how this works. They have a boned animation of a man walking/running/limping/crawling? and you use sliders to blend in realtime between the motions. So the result is a very smooth transition between the different animations with an increadible amount of variation between the 4? different animations.

Take Care,

Ben
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RisTar
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Posted: 4th Sep 2003 06:15
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once i did a lil demo with goku
(dbz) model from bid for power and the 3 parts of the body
Legs,Toros,Head was unconnected , every part had his own animations
so i just glow them , and its work pretty good ! thats how games like quake arena and some others works , 3 parts each one diffrent animations , and glowwwww
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arras
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Posted: 4th Sep 2003 12:52
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BHoltzman ...you cant blend animations in DB and DBpro ...up to my knoweledge.

M00NSHiNE ...limbs should work in DBpro the same way as in DB ...you must make skelet out of bones and attach one limb to one bone so if you rotate bone whole limb is rottated with it. ...Limbs are functioning well in DB.

RisTar ...if you glue two objects together you will get wrong build in collision results ...you have to put your model together matematicly if you want to make it out of different objects ...of course then you have to check each object for collision ...bye the way thats only way hove to know which part of body was hit.
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BHoltzman
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Posted: 4th Sep 2003 19:45
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Arras, I think you're right about DBPro not allowing anim blending. But Quest3D isn't DBPro. It's just a 3d authoring system that has a demo which demonstrates the concept of anim blending nicely.

Who knows, maybe one day DBPro will have anim blending as a standard feature.
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