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3 Dimensional Chat / Isocadia's models

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Isocadia
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 17:51
Well, I know it's like the 3rd thread I start here. But right now I'm making stuff for my game so I am gonna finish it. But before I post anything that is for my game, I made an axe based on one of the concepts by Dan Scott:



So here's what I got, I don't know where I could lose some poly's and if I should model those spikes on the barrel between the 2 grips.

Front:

Back:

Wire:



So, please tell me what you guys think of it and what I could improve.

PS: It's the first time a made something like an axe so probably the cutting part need some improvement, just don't know how to get it. )

Isocadia
Hassan
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Posted: 21st Dec 2009 18:32
Cool, always liked such looing axes ^^
you might want to make a bit higher poly one =D

Isocadia
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 11:59
Well, I added a bit more detail and right now its 946 poly's ( still under 1000 ) but I don't know how far I should go and what can be done with a texture. And I'm gonna make a high poly one to make a normal map for this one.

Isocadia

PS: I thought about animating it so it turns around so you can see almost every part, but blender does not export .gif. Do you know what type of file I should use to be able to post it here? Or should I just make some renders and post those?
Asteric
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 12:41
The cylindrical handle is too fat, and does not curve like the concpet does.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 13:18 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2009 13:39
@Asteric: Which is to fat? The upper/middel/bottom. And yeah, your right about the curve, completely forgot xD.

Isocadia

Edit:

Uvmapped the thing, here's wire and checker:


Asteric
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 13:28
the vertical cylinder that connects the hand guard and axe head, just alightly too fat i think.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 13:56
Fixed it, right now I'm working on the texture. Is harder then I tought. Especially the metal. But I will probably only post another pic when the texture is finished or almost finished.

Isocadia

PS: Does anybody got a good rough metal/blood texture tutorial?
mike5424
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 14:04
henrysfps.com - Henry ham has made a good metal texture tutorial

http://users.telenet.be/wotsa/downloadtutorial/1.htm - looks like a nice blood texture tutorial?

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Isocadia
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 14:09
@Mike: Thanks for the tutorials, blood is awesome!

Isocadia
mike5424
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 14:12
no problem. can't wait to see it textured!

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Isocadia
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:07
So, I dropped this axe after my computer crashed and almost every file was corrupted. So now I decided to work on a shield, and right now I'm on 480 polys ( quads ) with the med poly version. And i'm wondering if that is to much.

Isocadia

henry ham
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:15
its hard to tell without seeing it mate ,post up a screenie so we can take a look

cheers henry

Isocadia
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:20
Oh, completely forgot, btw, should I model like the part where your arm goes in ( since it's for an RPG you will not see it to often, just wondering ).

Shield + UV Map:



Isocadia

mike5424
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:33
I think you should add the back bit. But make it very low poly

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henry ham
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 18:36
it looks a bit to high poly for an rpg to me ,i think you need to optomise it a bit.as for the grip you could just use a plane cut into about 6 poly that should give you enough detail for that.

cheers henry

Isocadia
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 19:07
Well, Got it down to 297, sorry for the back bit, but didn't know how to do it better:



Isocadia

PS: I don't have an arm lying around so the "straps" might not fir perfectly around an arm. But maybe will fix that later on.

Asteric
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Posted: 18th Apr 2010 22:35
The inner bevelled are cut use a few less loops to be honest, especially as it is not going to be looked at much.

Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 15:30
Pardon me Asteric, but what do you mean with the inner beveled? If you are talking about the back, I got it fixed ( in a nice way, I suppose ) and the loop on top ( like in the middel ) is to make it curve, since it shouldn't be a flat shield.

Isocadia

Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 15:48
I am referring to the 'bump' in the centre of the shield, it has a few too many loops for being so small in my opinion.

Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 15:49
Ah, ok, I brought them down, I was mainly focusing on the round edges to be smooth ( therefor the 24 poly's ) because I hate it when you can clearly see the lines in a cirkel/cylinder.

Isocadia

Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 15:51
Yeah, but for that small piece, a good normal map should solve the problem. Keep the updates coming.

Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 16:16 Edited at: 19th Apr 2010 16:16
So, I got them down to 226 poly's ( quads and tri's )and reduced the amount of vertices on the middel part to 12, since it's so small that it will suffice.



Isocadia

henry ham
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:24
thats more like it mate much better

cheers henry

Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:38
Ok, so this is the final low poly version. Now I'm gonna import it into ZBrush, create normal and texture map and maybe a specular ( probably a specular xD. since its wood and metal together ).



Isocadia

Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:39
One thing, without control edges the model will subdivide into a mush.

First you will need to make a high poly version in the modeller with the control edges in.

mike5424
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 19:45
Quote: "One thing, without control edges the model will subdivide into a mush.

First you will need to make a high poly version in the modeller with the control edges in."


In z-brush you can just unselect smooth

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Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 20:20
But that would defeat the purpose of adding detail in, right?

Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:09
Uh, not really, you just massively subdivide, and then add the cracks in the wood etc. and what are control edges?

Isocadia

Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 21:36
Control edges are edges that you place into a mesh so that when it subdivides, and areas that you want to remain hard do so, opposed to being over-smoothed.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 22:10 Edited at: 19th Apr 2010 22:39
I think Asteric is right. From what I (think I ) know about ZBrush, it's works on insane amounts of subdivision, so if your mesh does not subdivide nicely, you'll be working with a mesh that looks like putty. Test out how your mesh will look by adding a Subsurf modifier to your mesh and then cranking the subdivisions up a lot.

@mike5424: By deselecting smooth, I'm assuming you mean to tell ZBrush to use a simple subdivision (original vertices stay in the same place, and faces are simply cut into four), versus an algorithm like Catmull-Clark? If that's the case, the mesh will look exactly as it did as a low poly mesh, without even the smoothing we want on things that are supposed to be round, like the edges of the shield.

Edit: Here's a little example of control loops.

This first example shows a mesh that has been subdivided without control loops. The result is very smooth all around.


This one shows the same mesh, but using two control loops. In the "wire", I've selected the control loops.


We can use control loops to preserve hard edges after subdivision.

mike5424
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 22:38
Quote: "
@mike5424: By deselecting smooth, I'm assuming you mean to tell ZBrush to use a simple subdivision (original vertices stay in the same place, and faces are simply cut into four), versus an algorithm like Catmull-Clark? If that's the case, the mesh will look exactly as it did as a low poly mesh, without even the smoothing we want on things that are supposed to be round, like the edges of the shield."

Yep, that's what i mean. As isocadia said,
Quote: "you just massively subdivide, and then add the cracks in the wood etc. and what are control edges?"


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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 22:45
Well that will work for things like cracks and scratches, but since the edges of the shield would still have 24 large facets, a normal map created from it would not make the edges look round because the edges of the subdivided shield and the original shield share a normal.

mike5424
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 22:51
Quote: "Well that will work for things like cracks and scratches, but since the edges of the shield would still have 24 large facets, a normal map created from it would not make the edges look round because the edges of the subdivided shield and the original shield share a normal."


Subdivide -> use smooth tool -> draw on details Should smooth it off nicely

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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 22:53
What does the smooth tool do?

mike5424
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 23:02
Quote: "What does the smooth tool do?"

What it says on the label, It smooths the model

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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 23:05
lol, one might assume the same, but how does it do that?

mike5424
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 23:09
Quote: "lol, one might assume the same, but how does it do that?"

Well, Say you had a sphere with sharp spikes sticking out of it. The smooth tool would soften these spikes and round them... I'll try get you a pic later.

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Asteric
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Posted: 19th Apr 2010 23:49 Edited at: 19th Apr 2010 23:50
Figure 1
A base mesh with no sub-d or control edges.



Figure 2
The base mesh with a turbosmooth, no control edges. We can see that all of the edges are smoothing together.



Figure 3
The base mesh with control edges added near the areas that we want to keep hard.



Figure 4
Turbosmoothed mesh with control edges, as we can see the areas without control edges are smoothed, whilst the areas with control edges are left harder.



Isocadia
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 16:08
Alright, I thought control edges were a special sort of edges. But I think it would be best to use the way Asteric suggested, since I want it to look round. So I will add those control edges.

Isocadia

Isocadia
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 17:14
Ok, So I added the control loops, I just can't get the put your arm through part correct, And before I'm gonna import into ZBrush, Does anyone have an arm lying around I could use to make the straps fit?

So here is my problem with the put your arm through part:



Isocadia

JLMoondog
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 18:00
Will this work?

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq8/MooneyGameDev/Hand_001-1.jpg
Download

Something I released to the community last year.

As for your leather straps problem. I'd scrap them and make them separate objects with some depth. Right now it seems like it's single sided and connected to the shield..this is a nono. Just my two cents.


Asteric
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 18:18
What josh said, theres nothing wrong with keeping them on the same mesh, but it just involves more work to get the same effect.

Isocadia
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 18:34
Ah well, decided to remove the scraps for now until I get all those edges working correctly, and it saves alot of poly's ( ok like 8 ) if I don't attach them, and well, it looks alot better so as stated by you guys I will probably just make them separate.

Isocadia

Quik
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 18:57
could u show a before and after subdivision wireframe?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Isocadia
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:00 Edited at: 20th Apr 2010 19:11
Well, Since I have redone almost the entire shield since I wasn't happy with the proportions, I'm redoing the control edges. But will post a screen in a sec.


Isocadia

With SubD lvl 4 and UV Map:



Without SubD:



So basicly the straps are cubes now and not connected to the shield, a normal map with make the nails that nail them together. And all the control edges are working fine right now. I'm at 296 poly's and I don't really know how to bring them down.

henry ham
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:27
heres an arm if you still need one mate

cheers henry

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:31
Lol, back off Henry, I posted mine first.


Asteric
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:33
Cant believe i forgot this, but triangles dont subdivide or sculpt properly, especially in zbrush SO SORRY i didnt realise sooner, you may have some issues.

Isocadia
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Posted: 20th Apr 2010 19:38 Edited at: 20th Apr 2010 20:53
Damn, completely forgot that to. ok, so what I could do I just make quads of them ( just make a cut ) or I could move the entire model to either 24 or 12 poly's. I think it will be best if I just cut the triangulated faces and then import into ZBrush instead of making everything 12 polyd ( unless 24 on the borders is to much and 12 would be better. So what do you think?

Isocadia

Edit: This is what it looks like 12 sided. not to bad.



Isocadia
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Posted: 21st Apr 2010 16:22
Come on people, please I need you help. Should I keep the 12 sided shield or should I use something like a 16 sided shield?

Isocadia

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