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Geek Culture / help with buying a new computer.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 19th May 2010 22:34
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Well, I'm currently trying to buy a new computer, bu I have a problem with some choices I need to make:

1. What kind of PSU should I get, I'm thinking about a corsair 550 watt.
2. About the GPU: I was thinking about a GTS 250 ( Palit? ), but how long will that keep me able of gaming on high settings? Because I want to be able to go on for at least 4 years before having to replace my entire computer.
3. The most important. Should I get SLI support, because from what I see the motherboards get alot more expensive and the GPU's also.

Right now I have a budget of 750. And with this comes the i3-530 and the antec 902. D you guys have any tips on how to make the performance-price balance better?

Isocadia

PS: Already thank you for your help. I really need a new comp but I do not want to spend all my money now and have to buy a new one in 2 years. So thanks for your help.

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 19th May 2010 23:06
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750 what? Pounds? Dollars? Euros?

Your signature was immature.
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DeltaCommando5
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Posted: 19th May 2010 23:31
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I'd go with a Gateway P series laptop. They're great quality, latest tech, and roughly $400 cheaper than competing brands. Or just surf TigerDirect.com for the latest best deals. I go there daily


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Isocadia
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Posted: 20th May 2010 00:09
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Oh, I'm srry, I have 750 euro's. And I'm not looking for a laptop, but for a desktop xD. Srry if I was unclear. Right now I'm thinking something along this road:

GPU:Nvidia gts 250 1024mb
PSU:Corsair 550 watt
CPU:Intel i3-530
Casing:Antec 902
Motherbord:Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3
RAM: Kingston HyperX 1333 2x2GB DDR3
OEM: Windows 7 home premium

The only thing I'm not sure about is should I go for SLI or not. Because I want to stay with this rig for atleast 4 years. And I'm wondering if like in 2 years it is better to buy a second SLI supported GTS250. Or just get rid of the old GTS250 and add a new, I don't know GTX 480. So is it worth giving the extra 40-50 euro's to buy a motherboard that has SLI support, or could I better just buy 1 card now and later when the GTS250 gets really outdated, just buy a new one.

And again sorry if I was unclear in my first post. I'm frikkin tired ( even though I sleep alot ) so I miss alot of detail when trying to post something quickly.

Isocadia

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JZ28
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Posted: 20th May 2010 09:17
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Quote: "I'd go with a Gateway P series laptop."


I agree, my p79 is the best computer I've ever used.

http://sites.google.com/site/jordanz2010/
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Isocadia
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Posted: 20th May 2010 10:00
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Well, I've done some research and first of all, I can't find a retailer near my home ( I live in the Netherlands ). And it costs 1000 dollar ( and I use euro's ) and that's a bit out of my pricing range. And, as stated in my previous post I would like a desktop and not a laptop.

But thanks for your help anyway.

Isocadia

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charger bandit
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Posted: 20th May 2010 19:04 Edited at: 20th May 2010 19:05
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Stay away from GTS250. Use this list:

AMD Phenom X4 3ghz CPU
4gb DDR3 RAM
Decent AM3+ motherboard that supports DDR3 ram,no SLI or Crossfire needed
Geforce GTX295 or Radeon 5770 (Radeon is better)
750 watt PSU (a bit of extra just to be fully sure it will support future upgrades)
Antec 300/900 case


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Isocadia
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Posted: 20th May 2010 19:33
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Thanks for your help. But I see 2 problems with the build you are suggesting:

Its 880 euro's ( 130 to much ). And the benchmarks I checked shows that the HD5770 is almost equal to the GTS250. And why shouldn't I go with the GTS250. It's a nice card and has hardware PhysX. I don't see whats wrong with it.

And why would I go with AMD. As far as I know they only get really hot ( at least, mine is ) and there are almost no applications that use 4 cores so isn't it more efficient to just buy a good 2 cored.

I'm sorry if I look as if I'm totally neglecting you advice. Its just that as far as my knowledge goes Intel>AMD and that the GTS250=HD5770 but that the HD5770 only is more expencive. And about that 750 watt PSU. I don't think I'm ever gonna use so much. And the 550 watt is like 60 euro's cheaper. I'm poor, I can't afford me really good stuff xD.

Thanks for you help anyway, and I hope that you will be able to clarify your build, because I'm pretty sure that for the money I'm spending my build is fairly good. There's just some parts I'm doubting ( is that a word? ) about. Like the SLI support.

Isocadia

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DeltaCommando5
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 16:50
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Still, I'd recommend Gateway desktops. They are very good and very cheap. Research their website.

<img src="http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/DeltaCommando5/Game%20Designers%20Journey/th_BannerGameDesign.jpg" border="0">
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DeltaCommando5
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 16:54
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Actually, if your European, I have no idea if gateway sells to Europe. May want to look into that too.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 17:41
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Well, I went to their website, and the P series started at 1000 dollar. And i couldn't find a retailer here that sold them. So I guess they don't. But right now I decided to wait after the summer holiday. Maybe because of the GTX 400 series the 200 will become cheaper.

Isocadia

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 18:50
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DeltaCommando5 - Please don't double post, use the edit button next time.

Thanks.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 18:56
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Im not sure if im correct on this one, but i a friend of mine has a Packard Bell laptop. Though wilst watching a review on Cnet i found the exact same laptop but branded under Gateway. Maybe Gateway is called Packard Bell in europe?
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heyufool1
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 21:04
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Quote: "AMD Phenom X4 3ghz CPU
4gb DDR3 RAM
Decent AM3+ motherboard that supports DDR3 ram,no SLI or Crossfire needed
Geforce GTX295 or Radeon 5770 (Radeon is better)
750 watt PSU (a bit of extra just to be fully sure it will support future upgrades)
Antec 300/900 case"

I agree with charger bandit. I have:
AMD Phenom II X4 3.2 GHz Processor
4gb DDR3 Kingston Ram
Radeon HD 5770 1gb
600 Watt Rosewill PSU
250gb HDD
Biostar Motherboard (Forget the specific model)
Windows Ultimate 64 Bit

That setup cost me exactly $661 and it can run Crysis maxed, no problem.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Up-coming RPG!
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 24th May 2010 01:32 Edited at: 24th May 2010 01:51
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get the Corsair 620W PSU, its better and its like a 700W performance i have one myself. for a videocard if 400 is not too much for you i reccomend 5870 if you are up for 600 get the 5970 and if your budget is a little tight get a 5850 or a 4800 series card. (i have a 5870 it runs everything and i love it) for a motherboard, i reccoment gigabyte and if they sell them in UK get a DFI board. i heard theyre very good, durable and built for gaming. there expensive and rare tho. id just get a gigabyte, they make good stuff (made my 5870). then CPU get a dualcore or a quadcore above 2.5ghz. AMD/Intel whatever you like best. (i have a pentium D 3.4ghz it rocks but i want to upgrade to a 3.6ghz p4-D) and make sure you get a big and wide case if you want to get good cooling in there. they can be expensive, but you can do what i did, i got a very old server case for 10 bucks from a computer shop and its pretty much perfect. well thats my advice

also for a cpu fan if your case can fir it, get the biggest hunk of copper you can find, dont be afraid to pay 100 bucks for it, its worth it, will keep your CPU at 20c like my zalman. (well i also use a soviet industrial grade thermal paste КПТ-8)

sorry i thought you were from UK for a sec. If you want something to last you at least 4 years, get the 5870 or a 5970 there frigging powerful and there are tons of new games coming out that use dx 11 this year so you wanna stay on top of that. and about AMD being inferior to intel AMD dosent give a crap about heat or energy efficiency, their CPUs are little monsters and cheaper than intel. you just need to get good cooling for them. as i said the biggest hunk of copper you can find. Also AMD phenom tricores are actually quadcores with one locked core, you can use some hack to unlock the 4th core (obviosly voiding warranty) but now you will have a fully functional quadcore CPU for the price of a tricore

and about the PSU the corsair 620W is very good but really if you can get a 750W. really if youre planning to get sli or crossfire youll need to have at least that much, id get an 800W if i were you.if you are planning to upgrade the comp over time, you never know what hardware is gonna come out so if you upgrade start with a good PSU the more wattage=the better for your system (wont get strained by lower wattage it wears out and damages your system)

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Isocadia
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Posted: 24th May 2010 10:57
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@PAGAN: Thanks for your comment. Damn I never noticed that AMD's were like half the price for the same performance. And about my CPU cooling, I have a zahlman CNPS7000C-AlCu ( http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=312 ). It's not fully copper but do you think it will be able to cool a. Wait, whats the difference between a Athlon X2 3.1 ghz and a Phenom X2 3.1? and is 2x 3.1 better than 3. 2.9 ( because the 3x 2.9 is 20 euros cheaper ). Well, is it able to cool those when stressed?

Ok, right now I'm freaking out. If I want a PSU that supports 2 XFX GTS 250 1gb cards, the only thing I can chose from Corsair is the 1000 watt. Apparently the other's don't have 2 supply cables for the GPU's. Anyone got tips on this, because I hear Corsair PSU's are like one of the best, but I don't want to buy a PSU for 240 euro's that's 1000 watt.

I really hope you can help me on this one.

Isocadia

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heyufool1
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Posted: 24th May 2010 23:28 Edited at: 24th May 2010 23:32
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Quote: "Ok, right now I'm freaking out. If I want a PSU that supports 2 XFX GTS 250 1gb cards, the only thing I can chose from Corsair is the 1000 watt. Apparently the other's don't have 2 supply cables for the GPU's. Anyone got tips on this, because I hear Corsair PSU's are like one of the best, but I don't want to buy a PSU for 240 euro's that's 1000 watt."


Personally I wouldn't do multiple GPU's simply because it's more money. To do SLI or CrossfireX you have to spend more money on the motherboard and PSU (Sometimes the case too if it's not big enough) and then you have to buy 2 good graphics card. So I suggest just getting a single good card like a Radeon HD 5000 series. I know that the whole point of 2 cards it to have more power but frankly no game requires that much. I play Crysis maxed on a single Radeon HD 5770 and it only cost me $150 as apposed to the $400+ range for a dual setup. Just my 2 cents

As for the power supply, try checking this out:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817176002
The key thing to look for is 1. The certification and 2. The customer reviews. If you need extra cables I'm sure you could find them here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010010001117752938&name=PowerCables

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Up-coming RPG!
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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 24th May 2010 23:30
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Quote: "Ok, right now I'm freaking out. If I want a PSU that supports 2 XFX GTS 250 1gb cards, the only thing I can chose from Corsair is the 1000 watt. Apparently the other's don't have 2 supply cables for the GPU's. Anyone got tips on this, because I hear Corsair PSU's are like one of the best, but I don't want to buy a PSU for 240 euro's that's 1000 watt."


Can't you get adapters (For like SATA power to PCIE)?
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 24th May 2010 23:56
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i personally reccomend this thing. its a zalman 9800 i have one myself, but you need a bigger/wider case for this thing to fit. You can also get the zalman 9500 (i also got this one when i ran into the case size problem myself), the same thing but smaller and dosent cool your cpu as well as the 9800. like 5-10c hotter with a 9500 vs the 9800. get a phenom because they have 3 levels of cache, not really sure how much better this is, but still, you might as well buy a phenom over athlon x2 or get a phenom II there even better.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Isocadia
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Posted: 25th May 2010 08:30 Edited at: 25th May 2010 08:38
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Well, the main thing I thought multiple GPU's were used for is that lets say in 2 years, I won't be able to run everything maxed out. Then I buy a new GTS 250 thats will probably be a lot cheaper than it is now. And then for not so much money, I can continue for again years and after that the CPU's will probably have evolved to the stage were I need a new motherboard and practically replace this comp. And does that zalman fit in a Antec 902 case?

Ah wel, I think I will just drop that SLI idea and just start saving money to buy a new screen+speakers.

Isocadia

Edit: about that CPU cooler, does it make much noise? Because if it does, I probably won't be able to buy it since my mom hates noise and then makes me shut down the computer.

double edit: Is phenom X2 555 black edition good? its 2x3.2 ghz

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charger bandit
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Posted: 25th May 2010 09:20
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The latest AMD processors simply don't overheat. My Athlon X2 runs at 35 degrees celsius maximum. The coolers are very quality and cool very good. Plus,AMD processors have no problem keeping up with heat,I push my Turion X2 to 97 degrees celsius. The cooler is almost completely quiet so no worries about noise.

The Phenom you suggested is good but if you want for the processor to last,buy a decent quad Phenom. I bought a dual core because I will upgrade my PC in a year or two anyways. But your choice.

Do not go for SLI,waste of money. Rather buy a decent GPU and change it when it is not good enough anymore.

By the way,Athlon x2 3ghz and Phenom x2 3ghz are same BUT the Phenom has more cache and is slightly faster on calculating applications.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 25th May 2010 14:50
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Quote: "And does that zalman fit in a Antec 902 case?
"


Oh Definatley dude, especially since your PSU is at the bottom. The zalman 9800 is very quiet, the louder fans are usually in the graphics cards because of their vaccum design so they sound like a vaccum cleaner at 100% but you can usualy manually control the fan speed. my 5870 is very quiet at 20%

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Isocadia
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Posted: 25th May 2010 16:23
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Ok, so here's my list after all your advice:

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 635.
GPU: XFX GTS250 Green 1gb
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-650HX
Mobo: GigaByte GA-770T-USB3
RAM: Kingston HyperX 4GB 2x2 kit 1333
Case: Antec 902
CPU Cooling: zalman 9800/9500.

Note: I can't afford a phenom x4, they are to expensive. And why I'm not sure about the CPU cooler is the fact that all that copper is pretty heavy and I'm kinda scared that when moving my comp it will just fall off taking my CPU with it. Also I'm taking the 650 watt simply because I won't really upgrade this, except for the GPU, and that wont raise to 250 watt usage in 2 years, actually, I think they will start to use less. But ey, I'm only buying after the summer and hopefully the GTX 275/295 will become cheaper and I might get my hands on one of them xD.

Well, thanks a lot for your help. And if you still got any recommendations, please post them.

Isocadia

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 26th May 2010 07:28
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I picked up a new desktop 2 weeks back at Best Buy for $819 US not sure of exact conversion to Euros

Gateway

Intel Core i7-975
6GB DDR3-PC1600 Corsair Dominator
NVIDIA GtX470
MSI X58 Pro-E

no monitor obviously

I am very happy with it

iTitans Advergame Development

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Isocadia
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Posted: 26th May 2010 08:08
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Thats a neat computer, the only problem for me is that I also need a new case+PSU+CPU cooler, so that would come down to around uhh, maybe 1100 euros or something like that. But have fun with your computer xD ( actually is very jealous and wants to steal it

Isocadia

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charger bandit
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Posted: 26th May 2010 14:24
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The computer you listed is pretty good
It is impossible that your copper cooler would tear off the CPU since you need a backplate for the motherboard and it is bolted on there.

But I would still suggest you to look for the Radeon 4890,they are very cheap and powerful.


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Isocadia
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 23:01
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Well, I just ordered my computer and I got myself a ASUS M4N98TD EVO, I should have read reviews before because now I see that it's soundcard sucks. So I was wondering what Asus Mobo you would recommend for a Phenom X4 655 NVidia GTS250 build. I only need 1 slot for my GPU and RAM slots that support 1600 mhz.

This is the website where I'm buying from:

http://www.mycom.nl/Productgroep/Moederbord/200

I know it's in dutch, but if you recognise a good motherboard please say so. I got a budget of 120 euro's.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Zeus, it's over. I DIVIDE YOU BY...uhh. damn what was the number again?
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Indicium
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Posted: 18th Aug 2010 23:52
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You're ditching an entire mobo because of the soundcard?

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Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Aug 2010 09:02 Edited at: 19th Aug 2010 09:07
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Well, I'm not ditching it, I'm trying to switch it because I don't have the money for buying another sound card. And I like playing my games with sound. All well, I could give it a shot. Another question that I cannot get clearly answered on google, if I put 1600mhz ram in a mobo that supports 1333 and 2000(O.C), will it revert back to 1333, overclock to 2000 or just not work at all?

Isocadia

EDIT: And I bought it well, less than 24 hours ago so they cannot refuse me to take it back. And is it normal that ASUS mobo's don't come packed in foam or something, and that all the little plugs that come in it are flying trough the box, and that the bag in witch the mobo's is delivered isn't sealed?

Zeus, it's over. I DIVIDE YOU BY...uhh. damn what was the number again?
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charger bandit
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Posted: 19th Aug 2010 10:49
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Once you installed the motherboard it is used and you cant get it back,EXCEPT if the dealer is willful enough. I am buying a new motherboard and I would be freaking happy to have an Asus EVO motherboard.

For the ram,it should work at 1600 normally.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Aug 2010 15:20 Edited at: 19th Aug 2010 15:20
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Quote: "Well, I'm not ditching it, I'm trying to switch it because I don't have the money for buying another sound card. And I like playing my games with sound. All well, I could give it a shot. Another question that I cannot get clearly answered on google, if I put 1600mhz ram in a mobo that supports 1333 and 2000(O.C), will it revert back to 1333, overclock to 2000 or just not work at all?"


It will support 1600 oc'd, the ram may run at 2000 oc'd, but supported safely on the mobo downclocked to 1333. (I recommend running at 1600, as this is well within the 2000mhz limit supported by the mobo. If your processor runs at 1600fsb, then it'll be very zippy, you don't need to oc it past 1600 unless you want to overclock the ram and cpu together. (assuming the cpu has a 1600mhz fsb)

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Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Aug 2010 22:04
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Well, they say that with my CPU 1600 isn't supported by default and I need to change that in the BIOS. I think I will just run at 1333 mhz just to be safe. And I'm keeping this mobo, will just save money for a soundcard later on. Can't be that expensive..

Isocadia

Zeus, it's over. I DIVIDE YOU BY...uhh. damn what was the number again?
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