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Geek Culture / why WASD?

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Ermes
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 11:41
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it's a long time the most of the keyboard controls are WASD, since C64 i hate it! now, just think, we all have arrowkeys on keyboard, more intuitive, clear of other keys on their sides,and easy to use with the right hand.
The question is: Why use WASD instead of arrowkeys?

ciao faccie da sedere!
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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 12:05
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For my preference, WASD is a lot more natural. My left hand is attuned to that side of the keyboard, and my right hand is such with the mouse(and right side of the keyboard). Since movement is the most often used thing in games, it makes sense to have it on your left hands usual resting point. Also, it means that you have a standard of movement being on WASD, with the keys immediately surrounding can be used for game specific binds.

That's how I do it and like it, at least

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da2020
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 12:14
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well... WASD can reach more buttons than the arrow keys like the c for crouching and the space bar for jumping like most of the games have and its very hard for most of the people to move the mouse in their left hands so they're more on using ASWD.
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Morcilla
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 12:34
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I like the question, because as a programmer I cannot see the logic for using WASD keys as arrows.
The logical thing would be to use the Arrow keys as arrows.

Now, to satisfy the users, many analysts would say that WASD is mandatory. If users do not use the Arrow keys, then they will be annoyed if you force them to be used.

So, which is the reason for the users? For me, it is just a bad keyboard layout design, on the side of the keyboard manufacturers.
It is just that the Arrow keys should be laid elsewhere, or perhaps there should be keyboard layouts for right-handed and left-handed.

For example, get used to control the mouse with the left hand, and then the Arrow keys will always be handy for the right hand.
So, I would say that the Arrow keys current placement is fine for left-handed people.
So it could be said that we all are using a keyboard layout for left-handed people.

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lazerus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 12:37 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 12:40
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I thought it was something simpler like the computer getting angry when you press down and left together. They might have over-rit that annoyance but i remember just moving to Wasd with the newer games.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 13:01
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Well, I don't want to use arrows, becouse my hands would be in an ackward position with my mouse hand. And tehre is more buttons to control with near teh WASD buttons. Such as: Q,E,R,F,C,Shift, Ctrl and propably you can fit something else too there.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 13:27
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Metal Devil you seem to have a problem with your keyboard... it keeps getting your h and e the wrong way round

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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lazerus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 13:49 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 13:50
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Edit, Just got teh joke

No i think hes quick typing so hes missing half the characters or just hitting the wrong ones. Ethier way, why dont people edit if its that bad lol.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Ermes
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:19 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 14:19
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true, WASD can reach more keys, but we aren't an octopus, and to press 10 keys for playing something, is better to use a gamepad or try a different control system in your game.
try this: Q=up A=down K=left L=right, so you can use two hands and use thumbs to press other keys. If you have to use mouse to rotate, use arrow keys to move then you have 3 mouse buttons to assign actions you have also ctr,shift, numeric pad near your finghers.

ciao faccie da sedere!
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:23
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If you're using a keyboard, it's gotta be WSAD. You have loads of other keys within easy reach, plus it's ergonomically better. You'd have to reposition your keyboard to make using arrow keys work, as it's too far to the right. Plus your thumb would be useless. With WSAD, you big fat thumb can smack the spacebar till it's own micro-heart is content.

If it's keyboard and mouse, it has to be WSAD! If it's keyboard alone, then right hand on the arrow keys is good!

Insert piccy sig here. Eh? Why didn't that work?!?! Must ring help-a-noob. What was the number again? .... where am I?
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:27
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iunno. Try playing Call of Duty with the arrow keys if it bothers you so much
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:49
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Quote: "true, WASD can reach more keys, but we aren't an octopus, and to press 10 keys for playing something, is better to use a gamepad or try a different control system in your game."


I hate playing FPS games with a gamepad. Who can friggin aim with a joystick?

WASD is the only way to go in a proper FPS.

Stick the arrow keys in a more keyfilled spot? Sure, just stick em where the wasd keys are

Most proper games will let you assign whatever keys you like. This is the way to do it to please everyone. Just choose defaults used by the masses (WASD).

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:53
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Quote: "Who can friggin aim with a joystick?"


l33t 360 players

I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
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Ermes
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 14:55
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i play lot of fps with my 360. no problem to aim!

ciao faccie da sedere!
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TheComet
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 16:23
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Yes, well couldn't it have been ESDF? Or SYXC? How did WASD come about?

TheComet

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Isocadia
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 16:33 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 16:34
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because:
W= way to go
s= slowly back out
a= alert ( missile from the left )
d= damn ( missile came from the right )

Nah, I don't know, maybe because if you just let your hand rest it's in its natural position. Or maybe because it is the closest to large buttons like shift and ctrl witch you need to smack alot?

Isocadia

Edit: and about the xyzc, my Y is on the other side of the keyboard...

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TheComet
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 16:49
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Quote: "my Y is on the other side of the keyboard"


Curse the Swiss layout...

TheComet

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 16:52
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Because WASD is so much cooler than any other layout. Geez.

I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 17:10
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i use WASD since they are closer to Q,E,F,R,C,X,Z,Shift,ctrl, alt, scpace than arrows are to Ender, Shift, End, delete, Page dwn, Page up, 1,2,3,0

well u know what i meanXD

also since i use mouse in right hand i dont wanna push my keyboard more to the left than it is already to reach to the arrows :S


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 19:48
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Quote: "it keeps getting your h and e the wrong way round"

It's a problem with my hand. I don't know why it happens, but it just does. The become teh, don't becomes donät, have become haev, but teh is the biggest problem with my. It happens on alot of words I write, but when it happens, I usually see it, except in those words up there. I quess I am little typetard.

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 19:54
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Quote: "try this: Q=up A=down K=left L=right, so you can use two hands and use thumbs to press other keys. If you have to use mouse to rotate, use arrow keys to move then you have 3 mouse buttons to assign actions you have also ctr,shift, numeric pad near your finghers."

wont propably with FPS games thou. You use who hands to control and what to aim? Why Q and A. I think that fells ackward. Why not like F and D and J and K.They also have the ten finger thing there so if you loose your keys and you rpen doow with e you don't end up pressing h! lol

And It just happened with Tehre too.... I don't fell like editing, 'cause I think people can easily just know what I was saying there. Just say it nyor head, wich is more possible solution:
Tehre is teh beaver.
There is the beaver.
I quess people can easily find wich one was right and they can spot what was right and so they can see what I was trying to type with my weelchair needing fingers.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 21:13
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I like how everyone's assuming there was a big scientific conference on the best key placement, rather than someone going "Hey Jeff, using these WASD keys feels pretty sweet - let's use those..."

http://forum.moltenbytedesign.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=121&title=quick-scifi-level
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draknir_
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 21:17
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WASD is perfectly situated to allow easy access to lots of other keys that can be bound to useful functions. The arrow keys aren't so conveniently located. Also, WASD + mouse is vastly superior to a gamepad for FPS accuracy.
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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 21:17
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Quote: ""Hey Jeff, using these WASD keys feels pretty sweet - let's use those...""

"But Bob, I was so attached to arrow keys!"
"C'mon Jeff, they are good, just try"
"hmm... fells nice. That's a good point, let's do it!"
"Whoa, that was a big conference between us two.."
"You are right Jeff... you are so right..."

That's how it was born.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 21:24
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Exactly.

http://forum.moltenbytedesign.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=121&title=quick-scifi-level
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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 21:59 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 22:07
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Quote: "everyone's assuming there was a big scientific conference"


no i am not, iam just explaining why i prefer WASD over arrows


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 22:21
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ESDF would make more sense really. Then you wouldn't have to move your hand when you want to type something, and it's a bit more comfortable when playing.


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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 22:29
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Quote: "ESDF would make more sense really. Then you wouldn't have to move your hand when you want to type something, and it's a bit more comfortable when playing."

Not really IMO. Shift, Ctrl and all that stuff would be harder to rach. In my opinion only. I prefer WASD and don't really see what's the problem in it. You can't remember the letters or something?

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HowDo
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 22:40
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IMO

WASD is all to do with begin right-handed, if you are right-handed then is suppose to make the game harder, look at coin op games, space invaders, PAC man, asteroid, all have the controls the wrong way round for right-handed person, movement keys or joystick on the left hand side.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 22:51
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also, if a problem with it, most games support the change of buttons used.....


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 22:55
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Quote: "Not really IMO. Shift, Ctrl and all that stuff would be harder to rach. In my opinion only."


You must have small hands.

Though honestly, most every game I've played in the last 10 years gave you the option of remapping your keyboard. So who gives a flip about the default setup.


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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 18th Jun 2010 23:44 Edited at: 18th Jun 2010 23:45
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WASD is totally for right-handed people...

Lets me control the mouse with my right hand. If I did it with my left hand I would not do as well.

WASD is closer to the ever-popular shift and space keys. Arrow keys are far away from everything.

But I agree with Josh, just remap it and get over it.

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Lonnehart
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 00:30
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I think the WASD layout was chosen because of the way we lay our hands down in front of us. If you layed your hands down on your desk, would your left hand be bent towards your right side? Didn't think so... So your left hand feels more natural when you put it down directly forward of you (not directly in front of you). Since the WASD keys are right there, it's a lot easier on your arm and hand than it would be if you had to sit there for hours with your left arm bent towards the right side, where the arrow keys are. That's what I think.

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TheComet
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 01:27
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This discussion brings another question to my mind :

You know how Nintendo systems always have an A and a B button? Tell me why A always means select, and B always means deselect? Every game has followed that pattern. Why?

TheComet

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 01:54
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Cuz A comes first. Duh.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 02:24
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Because people hate it when the buttons change what they do depending on the game.

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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 12:27
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I'm a left handed, but I just can't use the mouse with my left hand... I just can't. Right hand works with mouse. That's the only reason I am not cutting it off.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 12:50
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@Metal, I'm the same

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 14:10 Edited at: 19th Jun 2010 14:10
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Why WASD rather than, say, YGHJ (which is arguably nearer to lots of keys)?

Personally, I'd find the whole keyboard/mouse thing much easier if I

1. had two right hands
2. could find the keys without looking at the keyboard.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 14:18
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Quote: "could find the keys without looking at the keyboard."


Maybe that's why WASD is used. YGHJ is near more keys, but WASD is really close to Shift, Ctrl, and Space, which are so big you cannot miss them.

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gbark
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 22:31 Edited at: 19th Jun 2010 22:32
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Honestly I think it has more to do with handedness.

A lot of the population is right-handed, and they prefer to use the mouse with their right hand, forcing them to use their left hands for the buttons. WASD is on the left side of the keyboard, and so it feels more natural.

I honestly feel cramped if I have to use my left hand to press the number keys, or any other combination such as YGHJ. Reaching halfway across the keyboard is simply not comfortable.


For left-handies, I'd bet a lot of them use their left hand on the mouse with their right hand on the arrow keys (or they use IJKL for games that require them to easily access other keys, like Space, etc).
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Libervurto
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Posted: 19th Jun 2010 22:44
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The mouse is the answer. You have to have your right hand free for the mouse.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 20th Jun 2010 04:33
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I'm left handed, I play games just like everyone else

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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Jun 2010 05:07
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Heh I like the suggestion up there to go back to playing with arrowkeys.

I went to WASD after learning to play Quake1 with arrowkeys and a mouse because WASD was so much more comfortable and closer to the number keys (which were used for changing weapons before we invented the scroll wheel)

Playing an FPS with the arrowkeys and your hand on the mouse makes my left wrist ache because it's at a funny angle. xD

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HowDo
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Lefties party trick, using the mouse to find something and then using the left hand to write it down while they continue to look for something else.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
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Ermes
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 12:21
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well, another problem is key "S" is in the middle of 3 keys, change it with "X", it's better, and more intuitive and you can lay down 4 finghers and don't move fast as a rabbit from "W" to "S"

ciao faccie da sedere!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 12:38
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But then you can't use spacebar easily to jump...

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Ermes
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 13:28
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when you jump you don't need to go backward...

ciao faccie da sedere!
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Quik
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 13:38
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Sometimes you need to go backward while jumping indeed

have you ever played UT or Quake 3 arena?

do that and repeat what you just said for me please? =)


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 13:52
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Quote: "So, I would say that the Arrow keys current placement is fine for left-handed people."


It is bizarre, I am left handed but I could not even imagine using the mouse with my left hand, I always use my right hand lol. Don't know why.

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