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FPSC Classic Scripts / AI Vehicles?

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Slayer1918z
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Posted: 26th Jun 2010 21:22
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I've been wondering this for a long time and kind of need it for my game that I am creating. Is there any way to make a vehicle to behave just as an enemy AI, such as a tank, to rotate its cannon to the player and shoot the player? Also it would have to moveable but not jumping around like AI do but stand still or follow waypoints if some are available.

Is there any way to do this because I am trying to create a modern war game and I need tanks, jeeps, and helicopters in it to make it better. Thanks.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Jun 2010 21:32 Edited at: 26th Jun 2010 21:55
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Quote: "Is there any way to make a vehicle to behave just as an enemy AI, such as a tank, to rotate its cannon to the player and shoot the player? Also it would have to moveable but not jumping around like AI do but stand still or follow waypoints if some are available."

Yes, make the vehicle a chracter in the FPE with an ischaracter=1.
Then you would need it to have a FIRESPOT where you want it to hold its gun.
The animations would need to be synched if you want to use the stock scripts. (anim=2 for walk anim=5 for run etc.)
You could simply animate a static motion for the strafe animations or edit the scripts so the stock script calls for strafes would do nothing.

Quote: "Is there any way to do this because I am trying to create a modern war game and I need tanks, jeeps, and helicopters in it to make it better. Thanks. "

Don't forget that FPSC works best (faster frame rates) when used for indoor levels with small areas and not large areas such as the outdoors.

Here is a video (see attached download) of a half scaled map...
In other words I scaled the cars down so the map looked bigger, then I used a smaller area of the map for faster play.
As you can see I am just racing here, but the AI can be scripted for whatever you want within the conditions/actions bounds.

PS
I'm the guy on the motorcycle, and watch out for that #72 car!

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Slayer1918z
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Posted: 26th Jun 2010 22:23 Edited at: 26th Jun 2010 22:24
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thanks, I'm just wondering, how do I set the FIRESPOT on the vehicle and where whould I place that ischaracter=1 command exactly?
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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 26th Jun 2010 23:34 Edited at: 26th Jun 2010 23:35
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Quote: "Is there any way to do this because I am trying to create a modern war game and I need tanks, jeeps, and helicopters in it to make it better"


Don't get me wrong, of course that would make a modern shooter perfect....
....BUT...
....there had been very, very few FPSC games so far, that managed to bring infantry combat out into a large outdoor map and NONE that featured enemy vehicles that acted like you know it from commercial games. And that's not, because nobody wanted that.

Personally I would recommend to use first what the engine was really made for - a first person shooter, and only after that pursue experimantal stuff, which the engine is theoretically capable of but was not designed for.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 27th Jun 2010 01:01 Edited at: 27th Jun 2010 02:01
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Quote: "....there had been very, very few FPSC games so far, that managed to bring infantry combat out into a large outdoor map and NONE that featured enemy vehicles that acted like you know it from commercial games."

No games with them maybe, but robotic enemies have been made and with good results.

Open The Game Creator Store and then do a search for ROBOT.
You will see fine examples of machines as enemies.
Some even have wheels instead of legs making them vehicles.

There was a really cool helicopter in the forums awhile back, and I think there have been others too so you might want to search HELICOPTER too.

Quote: "Personally I would recommend to use first what the engine was really made for - a first person shooter, and only after that pursue experimantal stuff, which the engine is theoretically capable of but was not designed for."

The engine was designed for humanistic characters only?
What about the skull?
Well I guess it is technically still humanistic, but it floats instead of walking so it shows us that enemy behavior can be applied to anything.

The only thing you are really changing is the model itself, meaning a different mesh with different animations.
So the human mesh is now a tank mesh.
The tanks turret is the head, but it has the Firespot for the weapon for your flak.
Instead of legs we have a slow crawl with the tracks for walking and a faster animation for the run.

The scripting and enemy behavior is all identically the same and what the engine was designed for...shooting the enemy.
The only limitation to what the enemy will be is your imagination for the entity's design.

Quote: "thanks, I'm just wondering, how do I set the FIRESPOT on the vehicle and where whould I place that ischaracter=1 command exactly?"

The best way for you to learn is by examining the model and FPE yourself.
Open up a copy of one of the stock character's X file and examine the bones.
You will see one named FIRESPOT where the weapon gets held so look at the hands.
All you are doing is naming one of the bones FIRESPOT, so make a bone where you want the gun and name it FIRESPOT.
I'm not sure if it has to be a certain number in the bone hierarchy or not. (been awhile since I played with that)
Weapons have a FIRESPOT too, but that is where their muzzleflash gets attached.

Also, look in the character's FPE and you will see the ischaracter=1.
I don't think it matters much where it is placed in the file.
I think the placement is just for organization and asthetics.

I have been wanting to do a tank for awhile now but never made the time to do it.
That would be a cool thing for the Community Sci-Fi Pack project.
I was animating an alien tree but I might switch over to the tank now.
If I have any luck with the track animations tomorrow, then I might do a tank.
I was thinking though, if it is sci-fi, then why not something different than tracks? (tracks are old mmkay)
Maybe some bubble type wheels that could enable it to float, and even move sideways without turning the tank's body or gun.
Then it could even strafe!

Think of the old mice that had wheels and rollers, not the new optical ones.
The wheels for the tank would be similar set up only the rollers are the drive system forcing the wheel to move in the desired direction.
The cool thing is that this concept could be used for a working prototype.
Yeah, I guess I will have to finish this bubble wheel idea.

HOLY HIGHWAYS BATMAN

This drive system could be used for cars, then they could slide sideways straight into the parking space!

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raymondlee306
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Posted: 27th Jun 2010 01:47
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A thought I just had about this. Somewhere in these forums someone gave away a turret pack (run a search). You could probably use that script as a starting point. His turrets turn and shoot at you. You just need to make a tank with rotating animations. add the turret script to it, and maybe make it follow some waypoints. I'll try to find some time to work on this too, because this would be useful. If you do use his scripts for anything. Make sure to get permission and give some credit.

Edit: here it is I found it.
djmaster posted -
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=149740&b=24
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Plystire
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Posted: 28th Jun 2010 02:18
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The problem with making the AI handle a vehicle is that the AI wasn't intended to be used by a vehicle.

Character's start and stop moving on a dime, while a vehicle typically needs to accelerate, turn slowly, etc. Last I checked, jeeps and humvees don't strafe, nor do they turn around on the spot. They have to drive in a circle to turn around...

I think the easiest vehicle to script would be a helicopter, since they could probably get away with most of those things.


The one and only,


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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 28th Jun 2010 03:54 Edited at: 28th Jun 2010 04:38
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Quote: "The problem with making the AI handle a vehicle is that the AI wasn't intended to be used by a vehicle."

That is one way of looking at it; as a problem.
Another way is seeing it as a challenge.

Quote: "Character's start and stop moving on a dime, while a vehicle typically needs to accelerate, turn slowly, etc. Last I checked, jeeps and humvees don't strafe, nor do they turn around on the spot. They have to drive in a circle to turn around...
"

That's right, they don't know yet that it is possible with that new wheel concept.
The tank can spin around on a spot and you can gear things for different speeds to emulate the starting and stopping gradually.
You can slow the rotate down so that that is isn't turning on a dime, because you can also limit it to forward motion and override the rotate for sitting still.
Just like I did for Xplosys' Scooter ...(see attached video)...no the effect isn't perfect...it's a work in progress.
It seems even less noticeable when you add in the sounds effects.

Quote: "
I think the easiest vehicle to script would be a helicopter, since they could probably get away with most of those things."

Yeah, Helicopters do work really well.

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da2020
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 08:47
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@conjured

WOW! how did you get the vehicle move that soft! and how do you associate the player with it?
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 12:52 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 13:21
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Quote: "how did you get the vehicle move that soft!"

I only rotate 3 degrees for every move forward of 2, so it isn't turning all at once, just a little, like so...

:state=8:animate=7,associateplayer,movefore=2,dropmarker
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=33:rotateiy=-3
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=35:state=9
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=34:animate=6,state=2
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=0:state=5

As you can see, this state is to make a turn while moving forward. (the state is called only from moving states and not idle)
I have a lean animation for my bikes when they are sitting still... (see attached video)

The state above first calls the correct animation then moves forward 2 (walking speed) and drops a marker.
Then is turns left if the right key is being pressed (in this case 33-F).
Or it goes to state=9 for the other turn if that key is pressed (35-H).
The next line is the gear down, and goes to the slower speed.
The last line detects when we have let off the key for turning, and takes us to state=5 which is the state for rolling forward at slow speed.

Here is what the turn looks like for high gear....(same thing only we run forward so it is a faster speed)

:state=12:animate=11,associateplayer,runfore=2,dropmarker
:state=12,scancodekeypressed=33:rotateiy=-3
:state=12,scancodekeypressed=35:state=13
:state=12,scancodekeypressed=34:animate=6,state=2
:state=12,scancodekeypressed=0:state=6

As you can gather state=6 is our rolling forward at high speed state.
Again we go to a gear down state=2, which is really just a state to detect the release of the key then it loops back to our main state which detects the next input.

Quote: "and how do you associate the player with it?"


:state=1:associateplayer

lol easy enough, isn't it?

I do it again each state (as you can see in the examples above) to override any problems of the player getting bumped off.
These are examples from a test script, the chopper has the finished script that works like the preview video, so it makes a great example for scripting vehicles.
If you mean the rider, well that is done by chopping up the mesh and hiding it inside the body of the vehicle.
So, it is just simply another animation using a character mesh added to the vehicle.

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da2020
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 13:16 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 13:20
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@Conjured

ohhh so that's how it work thanks for the help dude!

[EDIT]Is the chopper a character or just a dynamic entity?
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 13:23 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 13:26
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Quote: "ohhh so that's how it work thanks for the help dude!"
You're welcome.

Here is the final state=8 from the chopper...

; State 8 is the left turn in low gear
:state=8:animate=7,associateplayer,movefore=2
:state=8:rotateiy=-3
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=35:state=9
:state=8,scancodekeypressed=0:state=5

As you can see, I added comments and took out the check for the keypress for the left turn, since it was redundant as the key is already being pressed to get you to that state.
I also took out the dropmarker because that was for a backtracking feature that I decided wasn't that great.

Quote: "Is the chopper a character or just a dynamic entity?"

Both
The dynamic entity has to be a character if you want to move it around, but that is no big deal, just an ischaracter=1 in the FPE, and remember no alt textures.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 14:13
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Seriously, I can't understand why some people here, think newcomers schould be encouraged to try out ANYTHING that comes to their mind.

Most folks around here (including me) find it extremly challenging allready to pull off an outdoors infantry combat map that doesn't look and play like complete rubbish with the FPSC engine.

So why do we keep telling people, that FPSC games containing airplane flights, chopper attacks, tankfights and car races are a realistic goal? Just to save the honor of the FPSC engine?

Get real, we haven't seen a SINGLE outdoor infantry combat map yet that was worth playing it longer than 60 seconds - but we keep telling new guys that creating the next ARMA is possible.

Thats like telling, we could have a colony on the moon. Of course we could but no one has pulled it off yet and no one probably will.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 15:45 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 16:35
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Quote: "Is there any way to make a vehicle to behave just as an enemy AI"

He only asked a simple question which was "Is there ANY way to...", so what is the harm in me saying Yes, you can do it this way?

You are implying that I am misleading people, which I am not, nor is that my intention.

I just get sick of people thinking FPSC is limited more than it really is.

Quote: "So why do we keep telling people, that FPSC games containing airplane flights, chopper attacks, tankfights and car races are a realistic goal? Just to save the honor of the FPSC engine?"

Because it is a realistic goal.

If people did not dare to ask "is there a way" then nobody would ever try anything new.
Experimentation is how we make discoveries, and is the essence of technological progression.

You can MODify FPSC with the source, and you can add your own DLLs to DBPro if you know C++, so these products are not as limited as some people suggest.
Or, you can find work arounds for the stock engine like I do.

Quote: "Seriously, I can't understand why some people here, think newcomers schould be encouraged to try out ANYTHING that comes to their mind."

Because it is better to try and fail than to sit around thinking nothing is possible and not trying at all.
At least if you try you have a remote chance of success, whereas not trying has no chance of success.
A little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing, so I will keep trying to do things that others say is impossible.

I don't understand why people think something is impossible just because their attempt failed.
That only means that you couldn't do it your way, it doesn't mean it can't be done another way.
I have shown him how to do a vehicle in FPSC. (and yes, I can make it attack the player or another entity with the stock engine)
Limited? YES, but there is a way, which is an honest answer to his simple question.

Quote: "Get real, we haven't seen a SINGLE outdoor infantry combat map yet that was worth playing it longer than 60 seconds - but we keep telling new guys that creating the next ARMA is possible."

The reality is that we won't see anything great from FPSC if all of you guys are convinced you can't do it and are not going to try.
The reality is that the results are based on the efforts, and the harder you work at it the better your game will be.
If you think you cannot do anything special, so you aren't going to try, then of course you will not be coming up with anything worth playing more than 60 seconds.
And I have found games here made with the stock that were worth playing longer than 60 seconds, so I guess perception and personal taste has something to do with it too.

Quote: "Thats like telling, we could have a colony on the moon. Of course we could but no one has pulled it off yet and no one probably will."

They said the same thing about landing on the moon, that it would never be done, and it took less than a decade to achieve.

I have designs for rocket fuel chambers to double as space station building blocks, rather than discarding them out in space creating dangerous junk.
I also have plans for the underground installation, since you need protection from solar flares there due to the lack of an atmosphere.
Maybe my ideas won't work, but we will be mining Helium 3 there sooner than you think, because there is someone trying.


My work here is done.
Think I'll take advantage of these negative waves and sail on out of here.
Laterz

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 16:38 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 16:42
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@conjured,

I really think high of you. Judging by your posts you know a lot about FPSC since it began and about the gaming industry & scene in general.

And you are always polite, friendly and helpfull to everyone.

But I can't unerstand why every question that inlcudes "Can I do *whatever* with FPSC" is answwered by you with a "YES" that makes any groom sound unsure.

And I also don't understand why you *cannot* acknowledge that FPSC has even the slightest limitations. Al I hear from you is that "the only limits are on the side of the developers"

The WIP should be renamed RIP, because it is mostly a graveyard of high hopes. The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work.

Even the BotB entires mostly rely on using the engines core competence to its best, instead of introducing completely new features.

For me, this is nothing personal, just a matter of a different philosophy. And my philosophy is, that FPSC will win more dedicated developers if they see early success with their first trial games, instead of failing while trying to strech the engine to the limits (YES, I know, it really doesn't have limits...).

And if this is all about "the skies the limit": C. Columbus didn't tell others to set sail and try the (then) impossible - he did it himself.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 16:50 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 16:57
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Quote: "But I can't unerstand why every question that inlcudes "Can I do *whatever* with FPSC" is answwered by you with a "YES" that makes any groom sound unsure."

I answer No, when it applies.
For instance if someone were to ask if there was a possibility of an odd perfect number, then I would say "No, that is immpossible".
I would say that because I can prove that impossibility since it is a mathematical fact.
It is still the oldest questions in mathematics and some peoiple spent their lives trying to solve it without ever finding the solution.
My paper that has proof of the answer was never made public, but I can prove it.
Anyway, there is the rare occasion that I do admit an impossibility, but only if there are facts supporting it as a truth.

The truth is... FPSC does not have any limits, and this is why...
FPSC can be modified with a language that can be expanded, which is written in a language that can be expanded.

Until there is a limit to the progression of the languages that the program is written in, there is no limit to its progression of features, capabilities, or uses.

Quote: "And I also don't understand why you *cannot* acknowledge that FPSC has even the slightest limitations. Al I hear from you is that "the only limits are on the side of the developers""

Because the only limitation is the developer, for FPSC or any other engine ro program out there.
Programs can be made better, langauges can be made better, the hardware can be made better, and so can the games.

Quote: "For me, this is nothing personal, just a matter of a different philosophy. And my philosophy is, that FPSC will win more dedicated developers if they see early success with their first trial games, instead of failing while trying to strech the engine to the limits (YES, I know, it really doesn't have limits...)."

How is it limited by anything other than the user when everything else depends on them to be made better???

Quote: "And if this is all about "the skies the limit": C. Columbus didn't tell others to set sail and try the (then) impossible - he did it himself."

Columbus was a lost fool who thought he was in India.
He only discovered that he wasn't where he intended to be.
The natives had discovered the continent before him, hence why they were already there to greet him when he landed.
Hever failed at finding his shortcut too by the way, but I am glad he did try.

Quote: "C. Columbus didn't tell others to set sail and try the (then) impossible - he did it himself."

I thought he had a crew.
I wonder what lie he told them then to get them to go.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 16:56 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 17:02
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Quote: "The WIP should be renamed RIP, because it is mostly a graveyard of high hopes. The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work."

How about commenting this quote of mine?

You think we win more dedicated FPSC developers in telling them "The Engine is limitless, if you can't do something, it's your own fault"?

Or is it not about our fellow gamers?

Is it just about your personal judgement what's the *truth*?

Or are you using this forum to teach mankind (on a small scale) to ascend?

Quote: "I wonder what lie he told them then to get them to go. "
Whatever he told them, he probably believed in it. Just like you belive, that everybody can use FPSC to make any game he wants.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 17:04 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 17:13
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Quote: "How about commenting this quote of mine?

You think we win more dedicated FPSC developers in telling them "The Engine is limitless, if you can't do something, it's your own fault"?

Or is it not about our fellow gamers?

Is it just about your personal judgement what's the *truth*?

Or are you using this forum to teach mankind (on a small scale) to ascend?"

I'm trying to help kids (and others) have fun making their own game.
It is that simple....I like to help someone if I can.

Quote: ""The Engine is limitless, if you can't do something, it's your own fault"?"

That is true for me too.
If it is not my fault for my failures, then who is to blame?
I am the one who has not modded the engine, but you don't hear me complaining about it.
All I am saying is that these complainers have the power to change it, so put up or shut up.


Quote: "Quote: "The WIP should be renamed RIP, because it is mostly a graveyard of high hopes. The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work."
How about commenting this quote of mine?"

Maybe they are told to give up trying, so they do, and there you have it.

Expect to get frustrated trying something you are unfamiliar with, and of course it takes time to learn something, especially master it.

Quote: "Whatever he told them, he probably believed in it. Just like you belive, that everybody can use FPSC to make any game he wants."

I don't know what he told them, but I know he didn't do it alone and that at some point they asked about their destination and he told them.

I am not telling a lie when I say that FPSC is only limited to it's user, since it offers them the opportunity to make it better.

I am not telling a lie when I say that you can do more with the stock engine than people say you can.

There is plenty of proof of that here in the forums via the mods and the cool games people have made with them and the stock engine.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 17:17 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 17:20
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Since you start to rely on petty personal attacks instead of arguments...

I rest my case. The WIP and Showcase thread are incorruptible witnesses of what people create with FPSC in the real world.

PS: I never claimed, that you lie. I said, that you belive in what you say. I mean...OK...religious zealots also belive what they preach, but even they are not lying.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 17:20 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 17:35
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Quote: "Since you start to rely on petty personal attacks instead of arguments"

What are you talking about?
If anyone did that it was you.
I am not trying to argue either.
I was just answering your questions since ignoring them would be rude.

Quote: "I rest my case. The WIP and Showcase thread are incorruptible witnesses of what people create with FPSC in the real world."

They are examples of what people are willing to share with us here in the forums.
Rest assured, there are many personal projects and experiments that are cool too, just not put here because of the AUP.
Search youtube too if you want to see more of what FPSC can do.



Quote: "PS: I never claimed, that you lie. I said, that you belive in what you say. I mean...OK...religious zealots also belive what they preach, but even they are not lying."

No, but you implied it.

Religion is not an acceptable topic here, so spare me the flame bait.

Quote: "Whatever he told them, he probably believed in it. Just like you belive, that everybody can use FPSC to make any game he wants. "

As if what I am saying and believing about FPSC is not the truth.

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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 17:35 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 17:36
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Quote: "As if what I am saying and believing about FPSC is not the truth"

All I am implying is, that you could be as wrong as he was. But I understand, that since "being wrong" is not in your book, that idea never crossed your mind

Besides, I recently spent 3 hours in the exhibition about Captain Cook here in our Museum of Antropology. And what I learned there confirmed, that explorers on a first trip believe all their promises about gold, treasure, fame or anything else. They only start to lie when they want a second trip....

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:27 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 18:41
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Quote: "All I am implying is, that you could be as wrong as he was. But I understand, that since "being wrong" is not in your book, that idea never crossed your mind "

See, and you say I am doing the personal attacks?
I never said what was or wasn't in 'my book', and I will certain admit when I am wrong. (as I have done in the past including here in the forums)
But in this case I am not wrong about the limits of FPSC, because IT IS expandable.
It is a fact you can make the engine as good as you are able to, and even better if you ask for help from others when you are stuck. (two heads are better than one)
So, again, it is a fact that the only limitations are its users.

If the source code was not available, then I could say what you want to hear, but as long as it is available I have to keep saying what I am saying because it is the truth.


Quote: "All I am implying is, that you could be as wrong as he was."

He was dealing with uncertainties and I am dealing with an absoulte truth.
I can't be wrong about it because the fact that you can modify the engine (and the langauges used to create it) is proof that its only limit is its user(that is a fact, not a theory)
Therefore, my statement is certain with no possibility of being wrong.
Only if there were speculation about the abilities of modifying the engine could we have doubt that it cannot be made better to do whatever you want it to do.

I am not saying that everything is possible in FPSC!
I am saying that this effect that is the topic of this thread is possible, and in fact has already been done.

IF you want to ask why, then ask yourself why you would want to argue with a fact.

You know the effect is possible, maybe not to your standards by what you have seen, but that doesn't mean that these guys can't do better, or that they shouldn't attempt to.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:39 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 18:45
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Quote: "No, he was dealing with uncertainties and I am dealing with an absoulte truth"

Quote: "Therefore, my statement is certain with no possibility of being wrong."


Now I really have to rest my case. You still don't seem to understand, that it's not about the engine as such, but what we encourage the avarage new user to try doing with it. Is it better for him to use 4 weekends to make a decent Zombie Shooter or try to make a helicopter attack (without it looking silly) and fail?

But anyway, it's no use discussing with someone who claims to have an *absolute truth* on anything.

Seriously, even Noble Prize winners usually show a little more modesty - even in the field they had been awarded the prize for.

And there we are again with the petty insults...
Quote: "then I could say what you want to hear"
..it's not what I want to hear, it's what I believe is right...but be my guest...

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:44 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 18:49
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Quote: "Now I really have to rest my case. You still don't seem to understand, that it's not about the engine as such, but what we encourage the avarage new user to try doing with it.
But anyway, it's no use discussing with someone who claims to have an *absolute truth* on anything.

Seriously, even Noble Prize winners usually show a little more modesty - even in the field they had been awarded the prize for."

Well good for them.
No, I never invented dynamite, but that doesn't mean there are not absolute truths in life or that I cannot recognize them when they are in my face.


Quote: "You still don't seem to understand, that it's not about the engine as such, but what we encourage the avarage new user to try doing with it."

Yes I understand.
The average new users want to build their own game, not what we dictate is or isn't possible.
I am trying to encourage the users to pursue their dreams and ideas, while you are encouraging them to give up as a new user just because you are frustrated with it.

Quote: "..it's not what I want to hear, it's what I believe is right...but be my guest..."

Suit yourself, but remember this... rehab is for quitters, not FPSC.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:47
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Quote: " while you are telling them to give up as a new user just because you are frustrated with it."

...and another petty insult...

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:51 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 19:00
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Quote: "Quote: " while you are telling them to give up as a new user just because you are frustrated with it."
...and another petty insult..."


Well what are you saying by this...

Quote: "Seriously, I can't understand why some people here, think newcomers schould be encouraged to try out ANYTHING that comes to their mind.

Most folks around here (including me) find it extremly challenging allready to pull off an outdoors infantry combat map that doesn't look and play like complete rubbish with the FPSC engine.

So why do we keep telling people, that FPSC games containing airplane flights, chopper attacks, tankfights and car races are a realistic goal? Just to save the honor of the FPSC engine?

Get real, we haven't seen a SINGLE outdoor infantry combat map yet that was worth playing it longer than 60 seconds - but we keep telling new guys that creating the next ARMA is possible.

Thats like telling, we could have a colony on the moon. Of course we could but no one has pulled it off yet and no one probably will."


You did say you were frustrated with it, and that we shouldn't be telling them that their idea is possible (even when it is)

Quote: "The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work."


I am not saying anything about you in that statement above that you did not try to convince me of.

If telling them to give up on any grand ideas is not your message or point, then what is?

Everyone was happy in this thread until you came here insisting I am wrong.

I still am not sure about what it is I am wrong about.

Can FPSC be modified? YES

Are there workarounds for FPSC's shortcomings? YES

Should people pursue their dreams before the decide to give up? YES

Well I guess the last one is up to personal preference, since some folks find giving up easier than trying.

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 18:57 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 19:04
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Quote: "Most folks around here (including me) find it extremly challenging "


Quote: ""The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work.""


I am a native german speaker so I am shocked how you could mix up "challenging" & "frustrating" and that you know your grammar so bad, that you don't know, that the part in brackets refers to the part before, not after it.

If you are not a native english speaker also, I apologize of course - you probably didn't know better.

But if you are a native speaker....I wonder what's in for you. But maybe it's just a case of "Before I am proven wrong, hell freezes over" Could get amusing then

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 19:02 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 19:09
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Quote: "I am a native german speaker so I am shocked how you could mix up "challenging" & "frustrating""


I gathered you were talking about being frustrated when you said...

Quote: " The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work."


So, you weren't talking about your personal experience?

Quote: "I was exactly such a newcomer btw "


That sure did sound to me like you had gotten frustrated with FPSC as a new user.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

Quote: "I am a native german speaker so I am shocked how you could mix up "challenging" & "frustrating" and that you know your grammar so bad, that you don't know, that the part in brackets refers to the part before, not after it."

The the word 'and' is usually used to compund/join two sentences because you are ellaborating on the same subject not starting a new one.
If the statement are not connected then maybe it should have been in a new sentence.
But leave it to grammer when the arguement fails.
So, were you not frustrated or do you just enjoy arguing?

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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 19:08 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 19:12
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Quote: "But leave it to grammer when the arguement fails."
That's below the waist when we are talking in YOUR motherlangue. Wanna do this in german?

But let's call it a day and exchange mails if we want to discuss this further, ok?

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 19:12 Edited at: 30th Jun 2010 19:19
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I'm not ripping it apart.
I only quote the sentence that I want to comment on.

Why do I need to post the whole quote if only one statement is in question?

You just like to argue and do not like it when you lose.

Quote: "I was right - it is amusing "

You were right?
About it being amusing?
When did you even say that?

I can see now you are only in this thread to cause trouble and are in no way trying to help anyone.

@poster
I hope I helped answer your question

Good bye

Quote: "That's below the waist when we are talking in YOUR motherlangue. Wanna do this in german?"

You brought up (and complained about) grammer, not me.

Quote: "But let's call it a day and exchange mails if we want to discuss this further, ok?"

You comment on the way I quote, but then you go back an edit posts to remove what was said.

No thanks
If you want to argue against facts with no proof of anything then go argue with a STOP sign or something, because I have better things to do.

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Plystire
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Posted: 1st Jul 2010 06:36
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I would like to just stop in and make a comment on this:
Quote: "The reality is that we won't see anything great from FPSC if all of you guys are convinced you can't do it and are not going to try.
The reality is that the results are based on the efforts, and the harder you work at it the better your game will be.
If you think you cannot do anything special, so you aren't going to try, then of course you will not be coming up with anything worth playing more than 60 seconds."


There have been many things that I have wanted to do in FPSC. And for each and every one of those, I have put forth the effort. Modifications were made tot he source where necessary.

You are correct. There are many ways to work a vehicle into FPSC with the stock engine. That has been clear to me since 2007, when I started making Ply's Mod. There was just one big issue... it was horrible. The fluidity just wasn't there. There were many collision issues. Modifying the source allowed it to be fluid enough to satisfy my taste for a game vehicle, but the collision issues were never solved. After 4 months of attempting to fix it on and off, I gave up. I stepped into C++, made a small, quick engine.... and made a vehicle that was WORTH playing with, in little under a week.

I have wanted to make certain kinds of flak.... that no matter how much you want to think otherwise, are not possible in vanilla. A launcher firing off 6 homing missiles in a single shot, with bright particle trails and a vivid explosion are not doable in vanilla FPSC. So, I went to modify the source. Again, there were issues, constraints... and after a couple weeks of changing 80% of the way FPSC handles flak to allow this to become reality, I once again decided to step into C++ and... within a short 3 days, I had it working in my own little engine, blowing up the vehicles that I had made before...

So when people ask me where most of PB's script commands come from? Well... they are (almost) all made from my endeavors to make something plausible in FPSC that wasn't before (whether it was DOABLE before is not the question... it was a question of being PLAUSIBLE to have it in a full game, not a tech demo)

So you say here... "The reality is that the results are based on the efforts, and the harder you work at it the better your game will be."

I can't help but wonder... I spent far more effort trying to do something in FPSC, only to make something BETTER from scratch in my OWN engine in a shorter amount of time. Why is that? Because doing it from scratch saves me from having to reverse engineer and re-engineer the engine that Lee has made, only to make something so SIMPLE become a plausible possibility. And when after 4 months of EFFORT comes to failure... and when a week later, it was working fine from scratch... where should my effort be going? Into FPSC?


You tell me, why, after I have been recognized as such a great modder, that I am having more trouble making something plausible in FPSC than by making it from scratch? Why does it take MORE effort for me to make something so SIMPLE in FPSC than it does for me to make it from scratch?

If you were me, where would you decide to put your efforts?

You say, "The reality is that we won't see anything great from FPSC if all of you guys are convinced you can't do it and are not going to try." Well, I have tried... believe me, the effort and the willingness to succeed was there... It took 4 months not to convince me that I couldn't do it but that it simply was not worth my time anymore.


The one and only,


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The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 1st Jul 2010 09:17 Edited at: 1st Jul 2010 09:21
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Quote: "If you want to argue against facts with no proof of anything then go argue with a STOP sign or something, because I have better things to do."
You seem to never have better things to do, than coming back for another petty insult...

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
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Miran
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 20:01
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Calm it down already guys and Storyteller 01 you say there wasn't such infantry game in 2009 called Battlefield of mine (in a free version).I got a SdKfz 222 to fire at me and you know how?I put in a wehrmacht soldier with an MP40 and then used bazooka to destroy him and in that game I used another trick I used sounds from weapons,combined them and got an awesome sound.And the best part was I did it in 15 mins.What do you have to say about that audions.[quote]""The average newcomer can't even pull off a zombie shooter and has problems to customize the simplest scripts or entity properties or is completely cluless which mod suits his style of games best(I was exactly such a newcomer btw ) and its very easy to get frustrated when even the simpliest things don't work.""

Wanna bet about that?!
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