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Intel Competition / [STICKY] Information about the competition

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 13th Aug 2010 14:00
Quote: "Would it be acceptable to create and enter a really simple game (like Tic-Tac-Toe or Sudoku) with settings for higher difficulty, etc. just so people will have a fun and easy game for their netbooks?

Even though I'm sure I wouldn't win with such an entry...would that be acceptable? "


Yes! We don't mind if users submit epic FPS games, or simple games such as Tic-Tac-Toe. You just need to bare in mind what a Netbook is for! It's a device most people will pick up, like their iPhones, play a few games on while traveling or doing something. When I go out, I tend to play games like mine, solitaire, worms, simple games where you can pick up, and put down at need.

So it doesn't matter if you want to create Snap! A side scrolling shooter, a version of space invaders, or whatever. Just do it with netbook users in mind!
Quote: "
Can we also receive some clarification about the first prize? All expenses paid means your available spending money is 5k - travel cost I assume? i.e. if I were to take a 'holiday' by bus to the local computer store($1) and buy some 'souvenirs' such as monitors and other tourist items I would be able to spend $4999 there?

Also, what was the thinking behind the prizes? I don't really see any correlation between a 5k holiday, 1k cash and a netbook, seems kind of random, but oh well!"


Please e-mail rick@thegamecreators.com for clarification.
Programmer2000
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Posted: 13th Aug 2010 23:49
OK, thanks!
C0wbox
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Posted: 15th Aug 2010 03:48 Edited at: 15th Aug 2010 03:49
Well, despite my efforts at getting a proper deadline, 11 days after the competition started, the deadline is still on a date that doesn't exist.

Is anyone actually going to do anything about the fact the deadline says it's for 31st of September? - Or are we just going to work to the 30th, realise its suddenly October and forget there ever was a deadline? - Thus inducing unlimited time...

I understand Daniel TGC e-mailed the rest of the people involved but nothing has been done, so I thought I'd make it a bit more apparent that this is still an unsolved issue. - This is on top of a locked thread and a separate post on this thread.



entomophobiac
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Posted: 15th Aug 2010 10:08
Is it really that important?

Whether it's the 30th or 1st isn't really the end of the world. Not until more than a month from now, anyway.
Melancholic
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Posted: 15th Aug 2010 10:09
C0wbox, the deadline has been updated on the main competition site. Deadline is 3rd of october.


I can count to banana...
C0wbox
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Posted: 15th Aug 2010 13:25
!

That's like 3 extra days.

baxslash
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Posted: 20th Aug 2010 20:37 Edited at: 20th Aug 2010 21:25
How did this get past a moderator?

Mod edit -- It didn't. Please keep on subject.
Regards, Daniel TGC Support.

_Pauli_
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Posted: 26th Aug 2010 18:18 Edited at: 26th Aug 2010 18:19
I have three questions regarding the rules (which I think haven't been answered):

1) Are we allowed to enter this competition with a so called "Demo Version" of a game? I mean a stripped down version of something that may be released as a full game later on? The rules say: "you will also have the right to use your Entry in any way you choose."

2) The rules say that "16. Game Apps must not include an 'installer' of any kind." What about the runtimes required for DarkGDK? (DirectX/VS2008 runtimes)

3) There are tons of plugins available for C++ regarding audio, networking, physics, etc. Are we allowed to use any of them? The rules say: "21. You are allowed to use any DarkBASIC Professional or Dark GDK plug-ins (DLLs)." I want to use ODE for my entry, am I allowed to? (since ODE is also available as a DarkBasic plugin!)

Thanks in advance.

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 14:07 Edited at: 27th Aug 2010 14:08
Quote: "I have three questions regarding the rules (which I think haven't been answered):

1) Are we allowed to enter this competition with a so called "Demo Version" of a game? I mean a stripped down version of something that may be released as a full game later on? The rules say: "you will also have the right to use your Entry in any way you choose.""


If you submit it to the AppUp store as a free demo, I don't see any problems with this. Though submitting a Demo application to this competition could get you marked down. Ideally we're looking for games to be as complete as possible. Perhaps following the iPhone tend of "lite" would be a better marketing option? It might give a better impression with the judges as well.

Quote: "2) The rules say that "16. Game Apps must not include an 'installer' of any kind." What about the runtimes required for DarkGDK? (DirectX/VS2008 runtimes)"


All DarkGDK requirements have been taken into account. The judges machines will have DirectX and VS2008 runtimes installed.

Quote: "3) There are tons of plugins available for C++ regarding audio, networking, physics, etc. Are we allowed to use any of them? The rules say: "21. You are allowed to use any DarkBASIC Professional or Dark GDK plug-ins (DLLs)." I want to use ODE for my entry, am I allowed to? (since ODE is also available as a DarkBasic plugin!)"


In C++ you can basically use anything you like, providing you understand the license terms! Some C++ DLL's require you to pay royalties for their usage. We require users to fully understand the legal ramifications of what they are using in their projects. As the author, you are the only one that will be held accountable for any breeches. To be safe, use TGC plugins only.
Matty H
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 16:33
Quote: " As the author, you are the only one that will be held accountable for any breeches. To be safe, use TGC plugins only. "


I am using PhysX, I fully understand and adhere to the license terms. I'm pretty sure I'm fine for this competition but was slightly concerned with your advice.

I don't know the license terms for ODE but by its very name(open) I would think that Pauli would be fine, I'm sure Pauli will look into it and confirm this. I actually have his plug-in as a backup in case the PhysX system software dependency turns out to be an issue.

@Pauli - Hey, great to see you may be entering this compo, is it Truck Devils or something else?

_Pauli_
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Posted: 27th Aug 2010 20:40 Edited at: 27th Aug 2010 20:42
Quote: "Hey, great to see you may be entering this compo, is it Truck Devils or something else?"


I saw that many of the cool and skilled people at TGC forums (including you matty ) are joining this, so I'm doing my best to enter this competition... and for the prices of course
It's not Truck Devilz (it's on hold until I feel like working on a racing game again), but I have something new at hand that will be lots of fun! I will anounce a Work-In-Progress next week maybe.

Quote: "the license terms for ODE"


One of two license options for ODE is the BSD license. This means I can distribute ODE in binary (or even source) form, if I include the copyright notice, the list of conditions and a disclaimer in my games documentation. That means I'm good for the competition (and basically any other use, e.g. commercial) if I meet these conditions.

Quote: "Though submitting a Demo application to this competition could get you marked down."


Well, then I'm just going to call it "Lite Version", "Preview" or something

Good luck to all participants!

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
DB_Newbie
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Posted: 9th Sep 2010 15:23
I have a question.

After reading the rules and the posts here, I assume that the media has to be included within the .exe right?

If so... how do we implement a 'save' system? Like if someone wanted to keep High Scores or something?

I'm new in this field and in the past, I was taught that to have 'save files' you need .txt in a folder or something that you can open, read and write.
entomophobiac
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Posted: 9th Sep 2010 17:40
Quote: "After reading the rules and the posts here, I assume that the media has to be included within the .exe right?"


Not quite. They have to be included in an installer that can unpack them correctly on an AppUp client's computer. But how you set up your file structure in the app itself is up to you.
DB_Newbie
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 07:55 Edited at: 10th Sep 2010 17:14
Ok well I initially just wanted to insert the media into the .exe so all you need to do is run it.

But yeah, my main concern was implementing a save feature.

How do you exactly implement a save feature (at least to save the highest score) if I just want a single .exe?

Also, I was told that I should take DirectX into consideration... because I heard that if I made the game on a computer that uses DirectX 11 and it gets opened on one with DirectX9 or something, the game won't be able to run.

EDIT: Oh and also... to submit our game, it said that we have to zip up our source code? Does that mean the entire code for the game? Isn't that kinda dangerous? Or am I missing something?
Battoad
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 17:20
In your editor settings, the Application type needs to be set to exe and not media, otherwise you wont be able to open your score files. Just make sure that your media folders are sent with your competition entry as part of the zip file, i.e include the basic .exe, media folders and dba/dbpro files.

The directx 9.0c is only necessary when and if you decide to put your game on the APP store, because although your pc clearly has this installed, new netbooks wont have it, so wont run your App/game. As part of the APP validation, it is necesaary to include the directx 9 option to install silently onto a netbook, if it hasnt already got it. I wouldnt worry too much about this at the moment, just concentrate on getting your game finished. You can think about the APP validation any time after.

DB_Newbie
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 18:15
I think we only need to send the .exe and media files, not the source codes.

20. You agree to make the game source code available for review should we request it.

Just weird that during the submit process, it says:

Make sure you have included everything - the source code, the exe file, all media it needs, etc.

I mean so far, I'm only submitting the .exe file and my media folder and nothing else. That should be sufficient right?
Battoad
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 13:25
Quote: "Ok well I initially just wanted to insert the media into the .exe so all you need to do is run it.
"


I have found that if you select "media" for the Application Type in properties, and include all yr media except the "score" txt folder/files and then compile into yr exe, then just make sure that the separate "score" txt folder/files is in the same folder as yr new .exe and it should run ok.

StOrM3
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 01:16
I appreciate this thread, as it should help alot of us out, who are having issues with their game and ensuring it runs smoothly on the netbook platform.. I especially like the idea of you guys helping to test out our games, and telling us the frame rates and stuff, that is really kewl.. BTW: I just found an awesome modeling app, that I have switched to, completely now, instead of Frag3D or MS3D, I have found Silo, and Silo is awesome, I just thought I'd mention this, so that maybe some users on here, working on 3D games for the netbook, might give it a look if they're looking for a really good polygon modeler / advanced features like nurbs, metaballs, and UV mapping / 3D painting, and it has a completely, I mean completely customizable user interface, buttons, windows, graphics, mouse, keyboard setups, you can even make it look and act like another 3D app like max or Lightwave or maya, no I'm not associated with them, but it is too awesome, and after trying a million modeling apps, both free and not free, I have to say, Silo is the best that I have found period, and the cost is pretty inexpensive, for the core version without the 3d painting and retopo stuff, which if you use 3D-Coat like I do for Auto-UV and Voxel / texture, bump mapping you can't go wrong for $99, and the full blown deal is $159 with all the 3d painting, bump mapping, retopo etc.. is all built in kinda like 3D Coat, only thing missing realy is the voxel sculpting, I hope this catches on, and a bunch of my fellow dbpro users, snag Silo, maybe we can get them to support DBO, and come up with an FPSC or DBPro Button / User Interface and mouse setup settings / theme pack for Silo, you need to check out the trial, and play with it for 30 days, if you don't like it, you can call me a liar, but like I said I'm not a salesman, or spokesman or anything for them, I just know there are other users like me, looking for a "GOOD" and supported modeling app, that gets updated regularly, and has the most easy to use interface for manual poly modeling and subdivision / and more advanced nurbs etc.. also.. But if your like me you'll fall in love with the Vert / Poly Tool or Append Poly Tools, and the viewport images setup, and able to model directly in the 3D Viewports either ortho or persp, too much more to list though, that's why I say check it out, and grab the trial edition, you can thank me later.. A MAX / Maya / LW quality better imho app at a Frag / AC3D Price tag.. You can't beat that..

Enjoy, and thank you guys for helping me out, that is why I try to give back when I can.. I have more free kewl little modeling programs, if you want them shoot me a PM and I'll email them to you or just send you the links so you can D/L them, like Sculptris, CB Model Pro, Mesh Mixer, Make Human, then not free, but hi-q: Blacksmith3D / 3D Coat / Fragmotion 3D / Silo / not as good, but still free Caligari 7.61. Enjoy guys..

[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
Pain Brings Reality...
[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
baxslash
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 11:23
Quote: "StOrM3"

Ever heard of paragraphs? Phew! No offense just saying it might make your posts a bit more readable.

Silo is not bad for the price but there are a lot of (free) modelling platforms which can do more than enough to satisfy 90% of what most of us do here. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone...

StOrM3
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 17:22
hehehe,
I told you I ramble on when on my Pain Meds I have to take for my Crohns Disease, damaged back, and messed up knees.. and if you show me a free app, I haven't already tried and dismissed because of lack of important things like 4 view layouts, being able to manual vert / face model in the 3d viewport, becuz if yer referring to Blender, NO WAY, tried it, no good, OpenFX tried it, decent but not good enough, wings3D, nope, I used to use it, but it's just too umm quirky, wierd to use now that I've learned how to model using MS3D / Frag3D.
I mean too many buttons required to do the simplest of things, only other one I liked when I write 3DO Builder for Total Annihilation was sPatch, it made it ez enough for someone who really had no modeling experience to crank out some models for new TA units, demonstrate my DXF->3DO convertor, later our 3DO Builder. More serious modeling, aka Character, and animating, texturing, Auto-UV mapping, stuff like that, you have to lay out some money for programs that can do a decent job of these things.
Unless your one of the people who stole Tattoo from the authors, which still can't auto-uv, have to manually uvmap it, then paint with tattoo, people using it for non-personal stuff, like a shareware game, or commercial game without paying for the commercial version is one of the reasons he stopped working on it, I spoke with him about it, as I help beta test / develop quite a few of the decent programs out there, that's why when I endorse something you might want to give it a look.

Sorry, rambling again, Just realized it.. I'm done with this topic, I really didn't want to get into an argument over this, I was just trying to help a few of my cohorts out, who have been searching like me for a while now for a good modeling program alternative.. That said, I'll just bow out now, and say, please tell me of these freeware alternatives of which you speak?!? The Old man on Pain Killers Said. ;')

Hence the name of my company - Pain Killa Entertainment.

StOrM3

[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
Pain Brings Reality...
[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
baxslash
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 17:41
Quote: "I'm done with this topic, I really didn't want to get into an argument over this, I was just trying to help a few of my cohorts out, who have been searching like me for a while now for a good modeling program alternative.. That said, I'll just bow out now, and say, please tell me of these freeware alternatives of which you speak?!?"

Who's arguing?

You are right this is not the place for a discussion on modelling programs anyway. I'll certainly take a look at Silo properly if I'm ever looking to spend another 99$ or more on modelling software, it just sounded like an advert and I thought I would put the point across about freeware (which has a lot of time put into it and is also highly rated) personally I find the free stuff to be a great place to start without spending anything.

I certainly never even heard of tattoo (I hope you weren't implying I did steal it...

StOrM3
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 18:42
No, not implying that it was you, just mentioning it, because for it's time it was like the only low cost, free for personal use, good featured 3d paint program, and I worked with the developers on it closely to add new features, fix bugs, etc.. and it got to a point where he could no longer add newer and better features we were working towards without switching his code over to C++ and a different engine.

The dev died off, and I couldn't figure out why, until I finally caught up with him again, and then he told me the whole story how even though he made a move to be more nice to people instead of releasing a feature crippled trial edition, he released a full featured working free version for people to use personally, and instantly registrations died off, people started pirating it, and just killed the apps chances for him to make some money, doing something kewl, then he said, also, that the only reason he did it, was there was no low cost alternatives to zbrush, 3d painting apps, but now that there were so many, that was another reason for stopping, but he added if it hadn't been abused, he would have most likely kept up dev on it..

Sad really, cuz at the time it was the ONLY 3D paint program that would work on my older tablets too with the junky intel built in videocards, another feature I helped him add to it, and suggested, to add the software mesa gl drivers to allow us fujitsu / acer travelmate c300 and the like users to be able to paint models right on the screen without paying an arm and a leg for the newer tablets.

Thats ok though, because now I have a P-Active LCD Tablet, much better, and still pretty cheap alternative to wacom cintiq, $825 instead of even now their new touted low price of $2000, which only has 17" of actual working space on the screen, and mine has the full 19", and 1024 Levels of pressure, I also like the adjustable leg setup in the back better than the Wacom..

Anyways, don't want to sound like another sales pitch, but it's hard to tell people about something kewl you've found without sounding like it, you know, btw: if your interested the P-Active you can snag at amazon for the cheap price I talked about above instead of the higher price at the main sales sites of the manufacturer. Oh well, I promise guys, I'm not a sales man for anyone or anything, but I do fully support and talk about products I like, own, and find on all my forums I use, hence the mention of DBPro & Dark.GDK and Dark Physics, FPSC, all the other kewl products like Character Shop, Cart. Shop, Dark AI, all of the other million TGC & affiliate products I own.. hehehe.

I do tell the users on say for instance Silo's forums about how well their product works for use in all of the TGC's Products I use/own. I just like helping people, I mean whats the point of keeping something to yourself, Game Creation would never have come this far, on that idea, think about if John Carmack, Larry Myers, Garry Kitchen, Ken Silverman had never posted howto articles in Dr. Dobbs Journal, or answered peoples questions via email, and even provided code samples, wrote papers about the theories, ideas, suggestions, and then howto books on making 3D Engines.

If I would have never released my DXF->3DO Sourcecode on Cavedogs own chatroom, along with that first unit, Kinboat would have never joined up with me to make that Unit Editor known as: 3DO Builder, and that was a selfless act, since it took me 48 Hours straight with no sleep to reverse the 3do format the hard way... Since noone at the time had it figured out, regardless of what they claimed. I know this because after I released it, me and Kinboat did the editor, I got the dreaded cease and desist letter from cavedog, then later after talking with me about it, they agreed to let it go, since our editor turned out to be better than the inhouse editor they used to make the game.. heheheh. They just told me, they wished I had released it differently instead of on their chatroom..heheheh It threw a monkey wrench into their one new unit a week release plan.

Anyways good talking to you, I enjoyed the memory lane trips.. If you need any of the Web addresses or more info just pm me..

Ciao' 4 now,

StOrM3

[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
Pain Brings Reality...
[PKE] Pain Killa Entertainment(tm) [PKE]
baxslash
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 19:13
Quote: " I just like helping people, I mean whats the point of keeping something to yourself, Game Creation would never have come this far"

Agreed, sorry if I took you the wrong way!

DB_Newbie
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 14:40
Hi all,

I'm trying to submit my game but don't quite understand the process.

I just submitted the game through here:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/intelcompo/upload.php

But I don't understand how to submit it at the Intel's website:

http://appdeveloper.intel.com

I get to a point where I can submit my game, but I'm not allowed to submit the actual game, only photos and stuff. I also don't know what to place my game under (in terms of the category).

Can anyone help me step by step on what to do? I'm just trying to submit a puzzle game I made.

Thanks
The Slayer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 15:09
Quote: "I get to a point where I can submit my game, but I'm not allowed to submit the actual game, only photos and stuff. I also don't know what to place my game under (in terms of the category).

Can anyone help me step by step on what to do? I'm just trying to submit a puzzle game I made."

Well, I submitted it yesterday, succesfully. It is now submitted for validation.
Maybe I can help? Did you do everything like Lee said in his vids? have you packed it into an MSI?
You should place it under 'games', twice. And, did you upload the photos?
There are six steps to do before it will be available on the store, I think.
Which steps did you already do, and what problems do you have while doing them?

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
DB_Newbie
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 16:29
Well that's the thing, I haven't done any steps yet to try submitting it in Intel because I'm confused.

This is my first time ever stepping foot into the site. I just thought you submit it through here:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/intelcompo/upload.php

And that's it.

Can you direct me to that video you mentioned?
The Slayer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 16:55
So, you've probably only submitted it for the contest?
You haven't made the msi installer package yet?

Well, you can find Lee's videos HERE, and HERE. The first five videos explain from beginning to the end, and the 6th vid explains how to create the msi package (completely free) if you don't have such software to do it. So, if you haven't done that yet, you'd better get started.
And, if you did pack the whole thing (MSI), then you can skip the first three vids, and go from there. You'll probably need an Intel AppUp account too.

If there's something you don't understand, just ask, and I'll try to help as good as I can.

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
DB_Newbie
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 17:39
Thanks. I'll get started on it asap.
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 17:44
Quote: "So, you've probably only submitted it for the contest?
You haven't made the msi installer package yet?"

Just a quick note, as far as I am aware you don't have to create an installer or even submit the game to AppUp for it to be entered into the competition, I've only submitted to the competition at this stage. You do have to be a member of the AppUp developer program though too I think...

Quote: "16. Game Apps must not include an 'installer' of any kind.

17. Game Apps should be submitted archived in the .ZIP format.

18. Game Apps must be submitted compiled (final EXE version) with all required media

27. There is no purchase requirement to enter a Competition and there is no charge to register for use of the website. However, you need to register the application with the Intel Atom Developer Program.
"


...it only says you need to register the game not that you need to have it passed validation.

DB_Newbie
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 17:59
Ok, I think I'm trying to do more than I'm required. All I wanted to do was enter that Intel AppUp competition. Which is why I thought that all I had to do was submit the game via that link.

However, I got an email from TGC that I had to send my application to the Intel Store or else my submitted game will be denied. I assume from that that I had to go to the Intel website and submit my game there as well. Which is why I'm asking the thread here.

Am I really misunderstanding everything?

I'm really confused =/
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 18:55
Quote: "However, I got an email from TGC that I had to send my application to the Intel Store or else my submitted game will be denied. I assume from that that I had to go to the Intel website and submit my game there as well. Which is why I'm asking the thread here."

As usual there is a lack of continuity between what TGC say one day to the next... I am just going to stick to the rules as much as I can a) upload the game as a zipped "exe" and b)register the game with AppUp.

If that's not enough they should say so in the rules.

The Slayer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 18:56
Well, I really think that you need to do both in order to qualify for the contest. Step 4 clearly says to submit your game to the Intel AppUp store:

HERE

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Matty H
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 19:02
I would recommend submitting to Appup before the deadline, I'm pretty sure the aim of the competition is to get games into the appup store. Anyone could register a game with no intention of ever submitting it, I'm pretty sure thats not what they want.

Its better to be safe than sorry, TGC(Lee) would not have put in all that effort with the videos if it wasn't needed imo.

baxslash
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 21:51
Quote: "Step 4 clearly says to submit your game to the Intel AppUp store:"

True... there goes my weekend...

@The Slayer, any tips?

The Slayer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 22:29
Quote: "The Slayer, any tips?"

Well, the most important tip that I can give you right now, is to do it as fast as you can, because I experienced some problems while doing it. If there's something you don't understand, you can always ask, and I'll help as good as I can. Once you did the first MSI, the others will be much easier.

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
DB_Newbie
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 04:42
Darn, I won't have enough time to do all that. I'm going to a 48 Hour Game Making Challenge today.

Oh well, next time I guess.
entomophobiac
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 09:29
"All that" is mostly about downloading SDK:s and connecting them to your app.

I think of it as a superb experience, as I'm considering to make more games for the AppUp Center in the future.
baxslash
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 11:38
Daniel from TGC said this:
Quote: "Please remember everyone. That we only require you to submit your application to the Intel Atom Developer Program. I know some of you are under the impression this means if your application is rejected before or after the competition deadline, that would invalidate your entry.

This is not true. As long as we can confirm that the application has been made, that's all you need to qualify."

Does that mean that as I have already uploaded as an "exe" it I don't have to make an msi installer and upload to AppUp or what?

I have three games to get on AppUp now and the ".bat" file I need to get my "unique value" is not in the current SDK. Makes it kind of impossible doesn't it?

entomophobiac
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 11:40 Edited at: 1st Oct 2010 11:40
It's just named differently, baxslash, it's called just "run.bat" or something along those lines and not run-plus abbreviation.

It's placed in the Tools/Debugger folder, if I recall correctly.
baxslash
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 11:53
Quote: "It's just named differently, baxslash, it's called just "run.bat" or something along those lines and not run-plus abbreviation.

It's placed in the Tools/Debugger folder, if I recall correctly. "

Great thanks fella! I did run it earlier but it couldn't find a file or something but after I ran the "iADP_ATDS.exe" on its own it worked fine...

I might actually get there now!! Cheers

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