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3 Dimensional Chat / Ortu's Miscellany

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Ortu
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Posted: 11th Oct 2010 02:29
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So rather than popping up a new thread for everything I work on, I s'pose I'll just start a general, open work thread and keep it maintained.

Starting out, some low-poly hard surface work since I haven't done any in a while.

Whipped up this here two-handed short sword this afternoon. It is 127 poly. I'm planning to do a dark polished wood grip over black oxidized steel, keep it stealthy.




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Quik
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Posted: 11th Oct 2010 11:31
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looking good, BUT, there is still a LOT of polygons that can be removed to decrease the polycount even more. while i understand the whole low poly thingy, optimization is always good, ALWAYS, even in low poly games so to speak.

marked with red where you can easily kill off a few polygons. As it is now, my eyes are beeding from your wireframe =)



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Ortu
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Posted: 12th Oct 2010 02:58 Edited at: 12th Oct 2010 09:36
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the loop in the middle of the blade is there simply to give me a seam to cut for the UV map. that lets me break it into a more squared position and scale the whole thing up for resolution instead of having a long rectangle that doesn't fit well anywhere.

You're right, I can probably cut a few from the hilt end, it has them now to slightly round it, but it's little enough that a segment or two can be flatter with no real visual change, the gaurd however just loses too much smoothness to the curve if I cut out much more than it is. I'll look over it though.

Began texturing, I was originally planning to just have the hilt be wood as it is here, but I've decided to go ahead and wrap it with a grip, so that's up next and then I'll add some wear and use.



edit: quick update before bed, have the wrap in place, need to work on the normals to really make it pop but that can wait until after the scratching and wear. Haven't done much texture aging before so this'll be interesting.




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Ortu
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Posted: 13th Oct 2010 04:23
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Think I'm going to call this one done, the wear is pretty true to the actual item and I'm happy with it.



maps are 1024x1024 but I'll probably reduce to 512s for game use.




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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 13th Oct 2010 06:35
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the diffuse is off.

You can see white splotches.

You can try to blame it on thats how you wanted it to look, but it doesnt look good.

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Ortu
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Posted: 13th Oct 2010 07:29
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If you are talking about the areas circled in red, that is metal showing through where the coating has worn off, along the edges and impact areas. It's slightly exaggerated but as you can see from the references that's how it actually is.

In real-time lighting those areas flash and gleam from the spec showing it as bright steel.

If these aren't the white splotches you're talking about could you point them out?


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Quik
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Posted: 13th Oct 2010 13:14
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the blade is pretty booring to look at, since i cannot notice any noise or such, meaning it gotta be singel colored? again, making it booring to look at.

and the "white wear and tear stuff" looks overdone in some areas,and it sort of LOOKS random.


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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 14th Oct 2010 01:13
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I can see you're trying to make it nextgen but it's just suffereing from a lack of a high poly model

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Ortu
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Posted: 14th Oct 2010 03:47 Edited at: 14th Oct 2010 06:42
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Quik: it does have surface noise, it's very light though and gets mipmapped out at a distance.



I'll up the noise intensity, and reduce the wearing.

and there's only 1 o in boring

Camo: just current gen, but yeah the hilt wrapping still seems pretty flat. I guess I'll see what I can work up this weekend.

Here's an update with the texture changes



and some better lighting for the wearing effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anKIQLvJfGM


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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 15th Oct 2010 01:24 Edited at: 15th Oct 2010 01:27
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that looks like a wall right after painting,, try making the noise marks strecthed so its like scratches.
[edit]

ahh and i know how to make your *chipped surface* look a bit better.

Normal map that part too!!! make the black raised higher, and it will truly be chipped. but maybe you should make a high poly :S

[edit 2]
increase normal intensity.

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Ortu
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Posted: 15th Oct 2010 04:26 Edited at: 17th Oct 2010 02:06
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Stretched the noise looks more like graining in the metal which isn't bad, and lowered the intensity some, trying to find a happy medium in depth. added normals for the chipped areas and ramped up the height of the wrapping normals... you can only get so much lift from a flat base surface though, the appearant depth really depends on how the light hits it, the more angular the hit, the more shadowing and depth you know?




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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 15th Oct 2010 05:29
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im just sayin, your putting detail on the missing chips when there isnt enough detail to support it, so it just looks bad.
Sorry to be blunt. Its a good model, fairly good diffuse for the most part.

The chips just look bad.

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Ortu
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 02:06 Edited at: 17th Oct 2010 02:14
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A simple bow with bodkin and barbed arrow choices

bow is 110 poly, arrows are 26 and 30






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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 02:46
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I don't see why everyone on here refers to high poly normal bakes as "next-gen", they're a pretty standard issue method in alot of places...

Your bow is looking much better than the sword. It's alot harder to try and break up the long, flat edges of a sword to make it interesting, hence how every weapon in...Oblivion, for example, is engraved and embossed to look more ceremonial than anything else...

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It's been a good three years.
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Quik
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 03:31
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Quote: "I don't see why everyone on here refers to high poly normal bakes as "next-gen", they're a pretty standard issue method in alot of places..."


indeed.


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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 04:28
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can we see the whole bow?

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Ortu
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 11:05 Edited at: 17th Oct 2010 11:10
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sure, not much to see though, distance mips out a lot of texture detail and the bottom is just a mirror of the top:



I still have the texture for the sword posted on the 11th, without the worn coating, it can easily be reverted to that. and yeah a sword is by nature functional and pretty plain. it's pretty much either going to have a boring lack of interesting detail or be interestingly ceremonial but not intended for use, not usually both.


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Mazz426
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 12:49
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i really like it, the only thing that is wrong it the width of the handle from the side, it should be ever so slightly larger than the bow itself


zbrush 3D model thread:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166698&b=3
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Red Eye
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 12:56 Edited at: 17th Oct 2010 13:00
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@Ortu: I like how you handle the posts you get. Had to say that..

@Master man of justice: Is it you or your badge that is producing the awesome quality comments you post... Please think twice before posting... I hate when people do this...

I love the bow, really... Good job! Ofcourse the sword could have some poly cleaning, your texture on it is starting to look cool, keep the good work.

Greets,

Red Eye

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Quik
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 13:51
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iam not sure what mmoj did wrong?


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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 20:58
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me either but ive been slapped

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Ortu
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Posted: 17th Oct 2010 23:07
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Glad you guys like it,

Mazz, widened the grip some more. The overhang should be more noticeable now.

Thanks Red, I've got a lot to improve, that's why were all here. So I always listen to everyone's advice and suggestions. I may not always agree with everything, but most of the time I'll make changes and adjustments. Even when I don't choose to change something, I give it serious consideration, explain why I disagree, and won't dismiss something simply because I did it differently to start.

MMOJ is fine, often blunt but I've no problem with that. I'm not here for praise, I'm looking for honest opinion and advise. He is always a good source for honest opinion which is great, although his posts tend to be limited to the effect of either "it looks good" or "it looks bad" and could maybe provide more advise on technique and execution to help improve the work in question.

He does offer advise now and then don't get me wrong and it's good when he does, but there are times when his posts are more criticism than critique. It's no worries, I know that's not how it's intended and it's all good.

It's just good for all of us to remember that when looking at someone else's work problems can be obvious to you, but they probably aren't to the poster or they would have fixed them before posting it's easy to miss the forest through the trees on your own work.

That's why its good to post and get feedback from people with a farther perspective, but the more specific we can be the more the artist can improve. Why does something not look good? What should be changed to make it better, how should it be changed and how do you go about doing it? etc

anyways, back to the work, I've got it rigged for firing and set up a 128x128 texture with alpha of a blurred arrow that can be stuck to a plain for the shot in mid flight.

short animation here, the arrow speed should probably be faster but you get the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JxuTxuULP8


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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 00:50
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haha sorry for my bluntness. Im honestly not trying to bash or upset anyone.

And i do honestly love the animation.

and redeye.
It isnt the badge speaking. I dont think i deserved it, as there were hardly any other contestents.

Please dont be so quick to assume. All i have done was criticized the chips on the sword, the sword normal map, and asked to see the full bow.

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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 01:52
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Well, I'm going to crit on the bow since the sword is done. The model looks very bland becuase a lot of the texturing is just straight Photos with no editing. I also think the wood should be a tad more rough. And get some wear and damage on that thing. Overlay some grunge things like that make it more interesting and more realistic. And if you're planning on doing a normal I think this particular model would've benifited from a high poly bake.

And try to define your materials more. In your last few renders I can't tell that its wood and leather

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Ortu
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 03:12 Edited at: 18th Oct 2010 03:15
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thanks MMOJ, and like I said, there's no worries

Camo: something like this just doesn't need much editing, grunge and wear is still on the to do list, so that'll be coming up soon but otherwise how much editing does wood grain or feathers really need?

I'll boost the contrast and tweek the saturation to make the darks stand out more at a distance. the banding of the grip was done by hand over a modified leather photo base and the string was completely created, no photo involved. The heads are a composite of a base with scratching overlayed.

I havn't touched the speculars yet which will do a lot to define a material, that's also on the todo.

I'm undecided on whether to bother with normals. The grip would benefit for sure, but the wood grain? It'd be time consuming and silly to model that in, surface texture that shallow can and should be done with a filter: nvidia or crazybump and the like.

The wood shouldn't be too rough, wood bows are typically sanded fairly smooth at least, if not waxed and polished. have a look:

http://www.google.com/images?q=wood+bow+photo&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=K4i7TPWNA4bGlQeKvKSUDQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA&biw=1280&bih=893


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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 03:25
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Alright, and wood can use tons of editing, you can color-correct, add chips, grunge, wear and tear, more life.

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Ortu
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 07:56
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well the bottom bit of wood is a color modified copy from the top piece, you can see that the grain pattern is the same, and I agreed that adding some wear is on the to do. I'm just saying there actually has been more editing than it may have seemed and certainly isn't just photo's stuck on with no work done.

here's an update with stronger grain contrast, does it read as wood more consistently at a distance?




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Ortu
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 18:29
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Alrighty, here's one for you high poly people. A winged recurve. I've mostly worked with the feathers and haven't yet started on the handle area.




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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 18:49
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Ooooh. Fancy.

How many polies is it out of interest?

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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 20:36
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All done by box modeling

Lookin good

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Ortu
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 21:56
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Thanks, I used a bezier curve to lay down the frame for the stave, but yeah most everything i do starts with box or cylinder.


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Quik
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 22:15
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oooh i like the feathers, are they sculpted? in what program?


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Ortu
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Posted: 8th Nov 2010 00:04
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done in blender, i made a custom brush from a feather reference photo in photoshop then used that to stamp in the detail onto the high poly mesh.

It's like using a custom alpha in Zbrush from what I gather, though I've never used Zbrush


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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 8th Nov 2010 21:20
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from the feather tutorial on blendercookie.com? if not then I am extremely impressed

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Ortu
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Posted: 9th Nov 2010 05:00
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ah nope, never heard of blendercookie, going to take a look around there now though

I had looked up how to set an image as a brush straight off of the main blender.org site and worked with a feather image from cgtextures.

Started detailing on the grip, I'll try to get some new renders up here soon.


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Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 01:14
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Well then sick I hope the rest of the model is this well executed

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Ortu
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Posted: 10th Nov 2010 04:30 Edited at: 10th Nov 2010 06:47
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I'm starting to think I'm going to need to fill the space between the two rows of feathers and make it more solid to get a clean bake off of it though unless the 'low' poly is kept way too high.

edit: so here is where I'm at now. Accidently caused some smoothing errors that need sorting out, but I'm mostly done with the high poly. I think I'm going to add some carvings to the wood, mabye some elvish style runes etc. I've been trying to take everything I work on now to game ready completion, but I may just leave this one as more of a concept piece.




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Ortu
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 02:16
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alrighty, work is slowing down again finally so time to start modeling again. Nice and simple

Wooden round shield, plain and with blazon:




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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 02:56
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get that into mount and blade already!
thats so friggin awesome!!


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Ortu
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 20:00
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Thanks! I forgot to add that it is 376 poly / 588 in tri's

Do you think I should add some rivets to the cross bands on the front?

On a side note, Mount & Blade is great I've finished crushing everything in the first and have started on Warband, gotta say though I'm not crazy about the new lance control. Half the time I'm charging a line of foot the lance flips from one side to the other just as I get up on them, missing, and it seems like hills don't have to be as steep to break a charge as they used to. I'll get used to it I'm sure but the original was simple and simple is good


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