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3 Dimensional Chat / Unity 3.0 and some thoughts how it can help us TGC folks

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Visigoth
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 05:49 Edited at: 21st Dec 2010 05:52
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Hey all,
I spent the better part of this weekend playing around with the Unity 3.0 package. I have to admit, its very nice. But I couldn't help myself as I messed with it to think, "how can this help me in my DBPro endeavors?"

The first thing I did was got familiar with the interface, moving things around, etc. Then, I downloaded their racecar tutorial, and thats when all the lights started going off in my head.
For years, I kid you not, I've been trying to come up with a way to make roads on terrains. I can make roads. And I can make terrains. I've just never foound the way to put the two together. I've come close, but Unity was the answer. Not the actual program, but the TECHNIQUE.

First off, Unity has a really cool terrain editor, built in. You basically "paint" a terrain, or, import a 16 bit (yes, that would be a .raw file) greyscale heightmap. The default terrain is 512x512, which is pretty big. It has no trouble on my machine whatsoever.

The technique they used in the racecar demo was to firstly "carve" the road "space" into the terrain. Then, a seperate "track" is added as an imported model. The "track" is split up into several sections, or limbs. The track is placed slightly above the carved out section.

Now here is the cool part, the one that should have been so obvious to me. If you've ever tried to carve a road on a heightmapped terrain, you tend to get that "stair stepping effect", especially around turns and such. Their solution? Model another object that is strategically placed to hide the hideous carved out terrain. Simple, but brilliant. Think like a Mr Potatohead doll. The head is the terrain mesh, and the other parts(eyes, ears, nose) are just plugged onto the terrain for the detail. Add some rocky outcroppings or overhangs by the turns, faces for tunnel entrances and exits, foundations to support bridges spanning gaps, etc.

Now this is all fine and dandy if you have say 3DS Max, because you need something with some real power to create 512x512 terrains. However, after some more searching, I found some scripts that allow you to EXPORT a Unity terrain to .obj format. I can work with that, because I have Ultimate Unwrap. And it works perfect. If you want to import your own terrain AS a Unity terrain, there is another script that allows you to convert an imported .fbx mesh to a heightmap. Once again, I'm good, I just use Ultimate Unwrap as the middleman with it's .fbx plugin. Once you have that in Unity, you can make a Unity terrain. There is one more tool, the Terrain Toolkit, that is pretty handy. It allows you to create terrains and modify them with errosion effects. (wind, water, etc.) and all kinds of other goodies.

With all these features, Unity could be another tool for asset creation and inspiration for DBPro, or FPSC even.
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Visigoth
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 07:26 Edited at: 21st Dec 2010 07:28
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to illustrate my point, I made a terrain in Unity using a 256x256 heightmap. There is no way to load this in DBPro unless its chopped up into limbs. So, I exported it from Unity as an .obj and loaded it into Ultimate Unwrap. Then, I just selected faces following the grid to get a 4x4 grid of 64x64 limbs. At first, UU was chugging to keep up. Once I split it all up into limbs, and exported it as an .x file, UU was running smooth as silk. I don't know how Unity handles terrains, but I bet internally, they break it into limbs.
Anyway, here is the volcano terrain, only took about 5 minutes to make in Unity, another 10 minutes to limb it in UU.
And I tested it in a dbpro app with a shader, and all was well.

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Visigoth
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 07:35 Edited at: 21st Dec 2010 07:37
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and another thing I was thinking about, to speed up the limbing process. Unity terrain centers are at 0,0. Funny, thats how I did them way back when as well, and now I think I know why. IF you want to split a grid of numbers up, its alot easier if everything is positive, not offset to the negative. This fact about Unity terrains alone confirms to me they must be internally splitting the heightmap into limbs, but the export script I have does not do so. Have to look into that, BUT, it would be possible for me to write a splitter routine in DBPro if the main file was in .x format. UU will export it all as one mesh as a .x, but DBPro refuses to load it (65k vertex limit)

edit:
and lastly, why go thru all this trouble? Simple. 16 bit heightmap terrains. Thats why. You could go into Photoshop, draw a 16 bit greyscale (.tiff works) and import into Unity, and then bring it out. And all done in mere minutes.
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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 16:02 Edited at: 21st Dec 2010 16:05
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It's great that you've found a solution to your problem. Very few things are as satisfying as suddenly realising how you're supposed to do that thing you've tried to do for so long.

The technique your talking about sounds really interesting, so I think I'll download that racecar demo as well to see how they did it.
Edit: By the way, where can I get this demo?


Press the Rösta-button to vote!
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Visigoth
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 17:26
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http://unity3d.com/support/resources/tutorials/car-tutorial
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Neodelito
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Posted: 27th Dec 2010 06:13
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Unity is the best...
sorry darkbasic..



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chafari
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 19:56
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Unity is just a drag and drop for kids...very easy to use as a kid may use.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 21:46 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2011 21:48
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Quote: "Unity is just a drag and drop for kids...very easy to use as a kid may use."

Not really. You can drag and drop prefabs and assets into the game world, like every other editor ever made, but you can't drag and drop function. Everything with a few exceptions is programmed in Unity using primarily JavaScript and C#. The editor itself is easy to use but there is still a lot of programming involved, which for many people, is not easy.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
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Visigoth
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 22:10
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actually, yes, you can drag and drop functions, in a sense. Functions (or scripts) are assests as well. For example, you can add a first person controller script to a camera, and it automatically becomes a first person camera, that moves with keyboard input. I don't know about drag n drop for kids, though. Unity requires some dicipline, in regards to asset management. Also, adding plugin scripts is a little confusing. But, I'm not trying to compare Unity to anything. I just wanted to give a heads up that it might be a useful tool, at least for some ideas, especially regarding scene creation.
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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 22:13 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2011 22:13
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Quote: "actually, yes, you can drag and drop functions, in a sense. Functions (or scripts) are assests as well. For example, you can add a first person controller script to a camera, and it automatically becomes a first person camera, that moves with keyboard input."

True, but that the script was still programmed, so it still requires programming. The implementation is drag and drop. Sorry if I'm sounding like a d##k but I just don't want someone to think that Unity is purely drag and drop like FPSC or Game Maker (without GML).

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
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Visigoth
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 22:20
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ok, correct you are. But just like FPSC, there is quite a resource for scripts in Unity. The difference is though, like I said, getting the scripts into Unity. FPSC's scripting is a lot easier, I think. If someone didn't want to write any script in Unity, they wouldn't have to. Its been done to death, just like FPSC. I seriously doubt a newbie to game creation could be up and running in Unity as fast as FPSC. Just sayin.
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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 22:29
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Quote: "The difference is though, like I said, getting the scripts into Unity"

Wait, I'm confused. How do you get your scripts in? You can just click in the resource panel and create a script right there.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
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Visigoth
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 22:42 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2011 22:45
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I meant hunting down and adding a script someone else wrote, like from their forums. For example, the terrain toolkit is a script. Here are the instructions:



edit:
I didn't have any trouble with this, but, some folks might.

also, one thing I DO NOT LIKE about Unity, is that you add SCENES, or levels, to a project, which is fine. But everytime you start a new project, it literally reinstalls all your assests into a new project file. Unless I'm doing something wrong, this is how it is for me. So, if you have a BUNCH of assests you want to add to your project, you have to wait like 10 minutes while everything gets recopied, not to mention all the extra disk space. I'm still a newbie with Unity, so, like I said, I'm probably doing something wrong. But with FPSC, starting a new project is no big deal.
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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 23:04
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Quote: "it literally reinstalls all your assests into a new project file"

Yea I have the problem too, very annoying.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
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Visigoth
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 23:37
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I think what we are supposed to do is have one project, and many scenes. And you compile a new game with only the scenes you want. Anyway, regardless, just another tool for me. And like I said, it doesn't matter what engine you have, what editor you have, it ALWAYS comes down to the models. With that in mind, I'm just trying to get better at modeling.
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Quik
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 02:41
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please PLEASE tell me those thinking unity is a drag and drop for kids is kidding?

to get ANYWHERE in unity you need to be able to script
and to be able to script a lot.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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Visigoth
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 03:08
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ugh. In defense of Unity, you don't need to know how to script. Lots of built in scripts, as well as add on ones. I thought I explained that above. Anyone else who claims this has obviously not tried Unity. But again, I'm telling all those looking for scene design info, or even another modelling tool source, Unity is worth checking out.
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Quik
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 03:13
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like i said
to make anything decent

you cant make a shooter with the stuff in there, u got a basic First Person controller, but the shooting u need to do yourself, damaging, gun animation scripts, ammo, all that stuff u need to script yourself.

with unity, you can at most make an adventure game, possibly, without any scripting skills

wait no, thats not possible either, since to make say triggers and stuff like that, a small scripting knowledge is required

i am learning unity 3d at school and iam very certain that to get anywhere you need to work for it in unity, it isnt and drop and drag map editor, it is an game engine, and it is very very good and very powerfull aswell


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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heyufool1
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 03:23 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2011 03:23
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I'm going to agree with Quik. The main scripts that come with it are camera controlling scripts. Sure there are tutorials and ways to find some of what you want on the internet, but if you were disconnected from the web, then the only way to do anything would be to script, script, and script again. I have been on/off using Unity since it became free a little over a year ago.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
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Neodelito
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 03:46
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""Unity is just a drag and drop for kids...very easy to use as a kid may use.""
emmmm... nop.. sorry..
they have a real webplugin, you can use "POST" and "GET" method interact in php and mysql webpages etc..
"Unity is just a drag and drop for kids"
Ha ha ha.. is a joke..?



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chafari
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 12:26
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Quote: "please PLEASE tell me those thinking unity is a drag and drop for kids is kidding?"


I have tested for a couple of days, and it was so esay that even my grandson (six years old) was able to use it. That is true that we need to know about scripts and a little bit of programing,but I prefer much more Darkbasic pro.


Cheers.

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
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Quik
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 23:45
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yes yes. you can use the WORLDBUILDER as a kid, no problem, but the technical?...


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 23:49
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Wow that got cluttered quick....

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Visigoth
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Posted: 4th Jan 2011 01:45
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I think I see the confusion here. I don't think we're all talking about the same versions of Unity. Unity 3.0 just came out in September, 2010. I've never seen the other versions, so, can't compare. From what I've read, 3.0 is a whole new animal.
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sprite
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 02:06 Edited at: 17th Jan 2011 02:08
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Personally I like both products.

With darkbasic pro was my first games programming language that I used. I learnt a lot from a basic no idea to fairly good programmer/artist.

I use unity pro now. I think my artist background that pushed me that way. I like the way of adding and changing assets, beast lightmapping, Umbra Occlusion Culling and I also like the audio flexablity fmod. I do miss darkbasic pros everything is in one place way of working.

Not saying that unity is better than darkbasic in anyway way. Its simply what tools you like to use. Its cirtainly not a kids programming language but a simi-pro one.

In a lot of ways unity makes my life easier I'm a perfectist so I can spend on hour getting that light in just the right place. Now you can only think of the time in dbpro reloading to move someing one or two units and not like it and have to do it again.

I'll add something later on.
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